14-07-2005 10:50									#1
	Discussion Thread: Exploration Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To keep things together and not to be too fragmented in the various Turnthreads, this thread is being opened for that very purpose.

Just to get it started, what we know as of turn 1 (4000BC):



We are going to be REXing like Mad very soon, so we need to also scout out potenial city sites. As we are Agri, we do best with Fresh water. So, I propose that we first move along the river, up to where it enters the ocean, then move around to locate other things (clockwise, maybe). Inital cource would be 8-8.

Or better yet, go 7-7, then circle around to the river and follow from there, on North side, then circle clockwise around.

As we aren't far from the top of the map (you can see our top of view area when scrolled all the way north) we will have some Turndra to our North. There also might be Furs.

Our Second Explorer can go SW or maybe first go to the Mountain that is 4-4-1 and then travel south from there.

E_T

	14-07-2005 11:15									#2
	Remove this text

I would start with the first scout moving 66 to take a look from that Hill, only then turning north, to scount those Hills and later follow the river bed. Taking maximal advantage of high ground, I mean.

	14-07-2005 11:17									#3
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I'd say 2-1 would be good for the first scout, so that it can continue south in search of other civs while scouting out a possible site 2-2 of Apolyton. Later units can be used to scout out the other sides.

	14-07-2005 11:49									#4
	Re: Discussion Thread: Exploration Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Turn on the grid!

quote: Originally posted by E_T As we are Agri, we do best with Fresh water.

Anyone does best with fresh water!

quote: Originally posted by E_T So, I propose that we first move along the river, up to where it enters the ocean

I disagree. We should run in the direction the other civs are most likely to be. And I think that is South.

quote: Originally posted by E_T There also might be Furs.

Furs reporting for duty, Sir!


Our first explorer should make a run across the continent; our second explorer can then scout out city sites.

[Edit] Fixed your do-it-now smilie so that everyone will start to remember to turn on the grid for screenshots!
Don

	14-07-2005 18:13									#5
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Just to make the circle complete, I say go 4-4 then south!

(The first three posts all were in favor of a completely different direction! This is why this team is SOOOO much fun! )

In all seriousness, I think we should go south in the direction that we know other civs will be. Our second scout can go north. In that direction is either a very close-by civ and they can meet us just as quickly, or nothing but open space for us to settle. No super rush to explore it all.

Going east or west is okay, but neither has a distinct advantage over the other.

Going South, in the direction that we KNOW other civs are, will give our legendary FAM a change to work their magic!

In that brief and crude screenshot I made of the Minimap, I only wanted to point out the pechant for the computer to make continients go from SW to NE, sorta like a slash: /

	14-07-2005 21:15									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I'd say 2-1 would be good for the first scout, so that it can continue south in search of other civs while scouting out a possible site 2-2 of Apolyton. Later units can be used to scout out the other sides.

2-1 is the way to go!

	14-07-2005 22:43									#7
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I'd say 2-1 would be good for the first scout, so that it can continue south in search of other civs while scouting out a possible site 2-2 of Apolyton. Later units can be used to scout out the other sides.

Agreed.

	14-07-2005 22:45									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal In that brief and crude screenshot I made of the Minimap, I only wanted to point out the pechant for the computer to make continients go from SW to NE, sorta like a slash: /

We have no idea how much modding was done to the gneral map as far as their shape and civ placement. Our land mass could run East-West!

But, I agree that we should generally head South based upon all that we "could" know.

	15-07-2005 04:24									#9
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Hmm

2+1 ist one way rigth..but i thougth our second enkidu go this way and use than a street.

For what purpose did we want to use the explorer?

To see the land around our starting position?
To get contact and to get the risk that some trigger our ga?


I thougth to the see the land around us and with that i would send the first1 up to the hills 7->7 the 2nd than 2+1 with using the street and a 3rd 6+6+9

and than all using to explore the area around us.

sirleif

	15-07-2005 06:30									#10
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree But, I agree that we should generally head South based upon all that we "could" know.

I have been updating my sim and this is a fairly good idea as to what is around us:



The ring of mountains is to denote what we have NO clue as of what is there, yet.

And as for where we are in relation to the World, Here is a picture of the our relationship to the NW corner of the Map:



Our North/South Location is exactly where we are. Our east/West location might be off by 1 tile, eather way. But it's close enough to know now far North and West we are.

Atleast, this will give us a better idea as to where we need to go.

E_T

	15-07-2005 06:39									#11
	Could we get someone to do a little bit of tile Modification?? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If someone has the ability and wants to tackle this little project, it would be a great effort in helping out our Exploration efforts.

What I would like to have, is a tile Modification. The tile type would be a SOLID Color, for each type of tile. That way, we can get a better idea as to what tile is just beyond the FOW, as it's sometimes misleading as to what you see in the edge. That way, we can try to work our Exploration Path to where we want to go to. If we see a tile that might be a Hill or Mountain, then it would show as a distinctive color and we can plan to send the scout that direction next.

The scout can better Hug a coast. A ship can see a bette path to another continent. It would give us Intel of areas inside of other Civs borders.

All kinds of possibilities. We just need someone who is willing to take on this task.

Any Takers??

MoI E_T

	15-07-2005 10:08									#12
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That seems like an exploit we shouldn't go for. Unseen tiles are submerged under FoW that much for a reason...

	15-07-2005 12:00									#13
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I have a mod where the bonus resources are easily see (e.g I know where we could find second gem around our capital)

If it is legal to use this information I will publish a screenshot. But I'm not quite sure and that is why I don't give exploration suggestions

	15-07-2005 12:35									#14
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I don't think such mods would be looked kindly upon, so, lets not use them.

	15-07-2005 12:39									#15
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just as I thought

so, I'll give no clues where to go and whatto do

but they are still useful for my X area

	15-07-2005 14:34									#16
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I've come up with E_T's idea before. Use a unique graphical feature for every type of terrain (& resource).

At that time, it was considered to be illegal, or at least quite inappropriate behaviour.

Let's not do it now.

	15-07-2005 16:40									#17
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We will have best view if we move the first exploring enk 2-1 to that mountain. There will also be a road in place to facilitate the move. From there the scout should proceed south.

	15-07-2005 17:51									#18
	Remove this text

Unless our first build ends up as a Worker, there will be no Road for the Enkidu going south. Anyway, I still have to change my "vote": South it is.

	15-07-2005 18:00									#19
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Regarding the solid tile mod: Noone has to make one. I think that I have seen one over at CFC. Its not used as anytype of exploit. I was made by someone who just didn't like the graphics so he made the mod.

Would it really be an exploit if we used a graphics mob made by a disgruntled civIII player years ago?

(PS-I do NOT use the mod. I only remember seeing it. The only graphics mod I use is Snooy's railroad mod.)

	15-07-2005 23:03									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I would prefer that we don't use any graphical mods. IMHO all groups should just use the default graphics. It seems like cheating to me as there is some advantage gained that was not originally in the game.

	15-07-2005 23:06									#21
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That ain't going to happen. Telling people that they have to use default graphics seems..over the top, to be honest, and a complete waste of time and disk space (for a dual install). Just don't use any mods like were disscussed above. And go make another proposal at the UN.

	15-07-2005 23:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis I would prefer that we don't use any graphical mods. IMHO all groups should just use the default graphics. It seems like cheating to me as there is some advantage gained that was not originally in the game.

Thing one, you have no way to prohibit graphic mods, for you do not see what graphics mods others use, unless they make screenies. Thing two, I personally will not change Civ3 graphics back to the ugliest of available choices for just this one game. Remember those are not easy, nor quick to change (not the self-adopted kind I use anyway).

	15-07-2005 23:37									#23
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I am going to bring this topic up for discussion at the UN and see what the other teams think.

	15-07-2005 23:51									#24
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I agree that the default graphics are not the best. However, if you want a level playing field these are what we should be using. Of course it might be easier just to ban certain mods that can be perceived as giving an advantage. Ultimately, it is true you can't know what mods are being used but I'd like to believe there is some integrity.

A mod that allows you to see luxuries, etc. beyond that of the original design of the game seems like a cheat to me.

	16-07-2005 09:44									#25
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I agree that demanding use of the original graphics is overboard. There are plenty like Sn00py's (which I use), WarpStorm's, etc. which were not designed with peaking under the FOW in mind and thus shouldn't give much more of an advantage to anyone trying to make out tiles than the default set does.

I simply view it as a matter of conscience. Are you modding a cosmetic set in like Warpstorm's? Okay. Modding it specfically to go tile and resource hunting? Exploit.

	16-07-2005 10:01									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That's a good way to look at it Kloreep. Thanks for giving it a better definition.

	16-07-2005 11:55									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I simply view it as a matter of conscience. Are you modding a cosmetic set in like Warpstorm's? Okay. Modding it specfically to go tile and resource hunting? Exploit.

Ahh, that is no problem, then. I meant graphics changes from ugly to not-so-ugly, not cheats.

Although, do you consider modded population heads (that make it easier to read the happiness level of a city) a cheat?

	16-07-2005 18:54									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

the only mod I use and find partially cheating is the one which gives me information about a bonus on a tile I have not explored. This can only happen if the tile NE of that is explored.

	17-07-2005 05:37									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Although, do you consider modded population heads (that make it easier to read the happiness level of a city) a cheat?

What extra information is that giving you? That's no more of a cheat than modding the resource images to have icons by them to indicate luxury vs. resource vs. bonus. (No cheat at all IMO)

	20-07-2005 11:18									#30
	Got spare money?

O.k.. lets focus people.

* E_T trys to get this discussion back on track after it was badly derailed/threadjacked.

E_T