30-07-2005 05:30									#421
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Verto who, for example, was the one responsible for driving Neville's parents insane?

This happened after Voldemort's fall. They were trying to find out what the Ministry knew about Voldemort's whereabouts in order to find him and restore him.

	30-07-2005 05:42									#422
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This happened after Voldemort's fall. They were trying to find out what the Ministry knew about Voldemort's whereabouts in order to find him and restore him.

Oh, yes.

	30-07-2005 06:38									#423
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh come on... people are just trying to find a way that DD is not dead... like they did with Sirius. I think Rowling has killed him off, for good. As she has said, when people die, they are gone.

I'm not so sure about that, Imran. The site Verto quoted makes a very convincing case that Dumbledore isn't dead, or at the very least, that Snape clearly killed Dumbledore not as a Death Eater but as a member of the Order following a master plan. It'd be just like JKR to lay it out this way. (And wouldn't the most delicious of ironies be for Voldemort - who seeks immortality above all else - to have to witness his most hated rival rise from the dead?)

	30-07-2005 06:41									#424
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by reismark I'm not so sure about that, Imran. The site Verto quoted makes a very convincing case that Dumbledore isn't dead, or at the very least, that Snape clearly killed Dumbledore not as a Death Eater but as a member of the Order following a master plan. It'd be just like JKR to lay it out this way. (And wouldn't the most delicious of ironies be for Voldemort - who seeks immortality above all else - to have to witness his most hated rival rise from the dead?)

No... it'd be quite cheesy actually. I'd be disgusted at such an ending. It'd be a Hell of a cop-out (ie, where Harry wouldn't have to finish the fight) and, IMO, just ruin things.

And yes, Snape killed Dumbledore as an Order member following the plan so that Snape is still at Voldemort's side. That doesn't mean that Dumbledore isn't dead. He'd be just as dead, but for another reason (ie, to help get rid of Voldemort).

	30-07-2005 07:35									#425
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And yes, Snape killed Dumbledore as an Order member following the plan so that Snape is still at Voldemort's side. That doesn't mean that Dumbledore isn't dead. He'd be just as dead, but for another reason (ie, to help get rid of Voldemort).

QFT

Preach it, Brother Imran.

	30-07-2005 08:48									#426
	Suffering from ads?

I think its possible that Dumblydore could return (phoenix-like) from the ashes. After all, the books are about magic. On the other hand, I think the most likely answer is that he is simply dead. Rowling hasnt been exactly shy about killing off characters.

	30-07-2005 14:35									#427
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui No... it'd be quite cheesy actually. I'd be disgusted at such an ending. It'd be a Hell of a cop-out

	30-07-2005 19:17									#428
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A lot of people were disgusted by Harry hooking up with Ginny. Thinking Rowling won't advance the plot in a way that offends your own sensibilities is the path to the dark side; those of you who think Snape isn't evil should take note of that...

	30-07-2005 20:18									#429
	Get a bigger avatar today!

They can't help but think the best of Snape... the same mistake Dumbledore made.

	30-07-2005 21:00									#430
	Punny names Tired of ads?

Do you notice how many punny names there in these stories?

Sirius Black - turns into a big black dog
Lupin - is a werewolf
etc.




Severus Snape - probably bites it by being decapitated

	30-07-2005 21:04									#431
	Inflate your Upload Space

You forgot : Fenrir Greyback - the werewolf .

	30-07-2005 23:58									#432
	Got spare money?

Look guys, Dumbledore wouldn't beg for his life. He is the one who said, "To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

He was begging Snape to do what he must do, and do it right, regardless of what it meant to both Dumbledore and Snape.

Dumbledore is dead. Snape did it on Dumbledore's orders. I'd bet a paycheck on both of those statements.

	31-07-2005 00:23									#433
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In the last book the truth will be revealed. You know all those students who don't come back for the following years? In the first movie the crowd of first years seems to take up almost a third of the room, so surely their numbers get culled somehow. You see the wizards get their powers from Cthulu, but He gets hungry from time to time. The kids who don't come back provide the master with the nutrition He needs. Of course, while He makes the power of magic possible, that doesn't mean there isn't a cost. The laws of nature must be maintained. Every spell cast requires matter and energy from the real world, but it's the muggles who pay the cost, not the wizards. The muggles are the wizards' unwitting slaves, and what is taken from them is gradually adding up. Voldemort knew this and was appallled. Lacking the power to take on Cthulu directly, he sought to address the issue in a manner not likely to attract the master's attention, by isolating the wizards from the world of the muggles. He realised that if the wizard's cult was isolated it would eventually die of inbreeding. Alas he could not achieve this goal without knocking a few heads. He almost succeeded, if it were not for the likes of one tiny toddler strong in the master's favor. In the final book we'll find out what path Harry will take.....for the good of humanity or for the glory of Cthulu.

	31-07-2005 01:00									#434
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You know, I'm rather ashamed to admit that I have no idea what this "Cthulu" is, but people always seem to be making references to it.

	31-07-2005 03:00									#435
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: You know, I'm rather ashamed to admit that I have no idea what this "Cthulu" is, but people always seem to be making references to it.

http://www.cthulhu.org/

	31-07-2005 19:06									#436
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer You know, I'm rather ashamed to admit that I have no idea what this "Cthulu" is, but people always seem to be making references to it.

The short answer is that Cthulu is an evil god/demon/thing created by the horror writer HP Lovecraft in the late 1920's. It only actually appears in a few stories and only very briefly at that. The misguided/evil sorcerers in Lovecrafts world are constantly trying to open a rift in time/space with the aid of the magic in the book 'The Necronomicon' (written in Lovecrafts world by the mad arab Abdul Al Hazrad) and allow it to return to the earth (followed by the expected chaos destruction etc).

His short stories had a resurgence in the 70's (after Tolkiens work became popular) along with the sci-fi and fantasy writers of those times i.e. Burroughs and Howard etc.

	31-07-2005 19:14									#437
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks.

	01-08-2005 06:48									#438
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: A lot of people were disgusted by Harry hooking up with Ginny.

Very different, IMO. That was a tangential story dealing with Harry's love life. Yes, it pissed off a lot of people, but she was going to piss off a LOT of people no matter who Harry hooked up with (and he had to hook up with someone... really).

Dumbledore coming back from the dead would just be cheesy beyond belief and would run totally counter to what she's been doing so far (ie, even a kid can beat the biggest baddest ******* in the country if he's brave and smart enough).

	01-08-2005 11:04									#439
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why did Harry have to hook up with anyone? Why not end up asexual like Dumbledore or Voldemort?

	01-08-2005 11:32									#440
	Tired of ads?

The vast majority of Harry Potter readers are kids and women. The kids could live without a romance angle, but you know that the women can't...

	01-08-2005 11:48									#441
	Increase the size of your Attachments

All the romance is a bore to me, so I did not like that angle of this book, even though it all turned out how I predicted.


I think Snape simply got painted into a corner, weighed his chances for survival, and made a choice. I refuse to believe he is a bad guy who turned into a good guy, but continued to have a sour temper, making him appear like a bad guy while he was really still a good guy, then betrayed the good guys, appearing to become a bad guy, but was really good in the end.

He killed Dumbledore, and that is all there is to it.

	01-08-2005 11:51									#442
	Increase the size of your Attachments

just bought this at a 24 hour grocery store

JM

	01-08-2005 19:38									#443
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

my thoughts

snape killed Dumbledore

because he had to

he made a binding promise to the mom to help Draco

snape I think is still on the side of good, and I predict will help Potter in the end, if Potter doesn't refuse it

if you think about it, Dumbledore has been saying all this book (and some of the previous ones) about how he isn't all that important anymore

and especially focusing on the importance of Harry

and Snape

notice that Snape made sure Harry survived

I also didn't like Harry much in book 5, he was better in book 6 but was still bratty

Jon Miller
(have read 2-6 in the last few days)

	01-08-2005 19:53									#444
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The short answer is that Cthulu is an evil god/demon/thing created by the horror [hack] writer HP Lovecraft in the late 1920's.

Fixed.

	01-08-2005 20:00									#445
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I don't like the idea that Tom Riddle was corrupt from the beggining..

everything seems to be very set in stone.. if you are corrupt from the get go you go to slytherin, and if you are lucky you end up just a greedy manipulative person..

I would have liked it much better if it was something that had built up over time..

JM

	01-08-2005 20:08									#446
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't like the idea that Tom Riddle was corrupt from the beggining.. everything seems to be very set in stone.. if you are corrupt from the get go you go to slytherin, and if you are lucky you end up just a greedy manipulative person.. I would have liked it much better if it was something that had built up over time.. JM

[Godwinization]
Why, the Slytherin mythos includes as one of its tenents intolerance to muggles? The way Rawling set up the 4 founders was to clearly show Salazaar as the founder of fascism within the wizarding world. Voldemort being the wizarding equivalent of Hitler.

Slytherin in her earlier books was set to be inherently a powerful yet morally bankrupt approach to wizarding from its inception as a house within Hogwarts. [/godwinization]

	01-08-2005 20:11									#447
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Not reading this thread until I finish the book. Just started yesterday, on page 100 or so... Love how these books fly.

	01-08-2005 20:15									#448
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't like the idea that Tom Riddle was corrupt from the beggining.

I don't see a problem with it. Rowling seems to have done her homework. The guy is a classic psychopath: cares nothing for others, cares only about himself, emotionless, thinks himself special or superior to all others, charming when he wants to be, etc. This guy could be Ted Bundy. Voldemort is a serial killer with magic powers and followers. Think Manson with magic.

	01-08-2005 20:28									#449
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

He even displayed all the classic traits of a child who becomes a serial killer--animal mutilation/torture, doing "something" to other kids...

	01-08-2005 20:59									#450
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't think the rest of the order is with Snape killing Dumbledore

I think that Snape will be working against Voldemont from inside from now on.. but won't be passing info to the Order

I predict that the final confrontation Harry will be aided by Snape, if it is accepted

or that Snape will help Harry right before the end (Destroy the last soul fragment or something)

JM