10-08-2005 00:45									#481
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harry potter sucks

get a life losers!

	10-08-2005 00:48									#482
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i am intrigued that GePap, discussing Voldys "rude" use of blood, compares it to a LOTM post filled with cursing and invective

Am I then, smooth, sophisticated, but deeply evil?

F**king, SOB.

Have a nice day

	10-08-2005 00:48									#483
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quote: 7. Am I the only one who picked up the WOT references - the useless Ministry pamphlets, the pendulum swinging from a Minister who ignored the death eater problem, to one who mainly tried to look tough, and imprisoned innocents?

JKR said that she'd planned this sort of thing before 9/11.

	10-08-2005 00:49									#484
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quote: Originally posted by Sava harry potter sucks get a life losers!

so says the guy who writes letters to lawyers in defense of his favorite video games.

	10-08-2005 00:50									#485
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: 7. Am I the only one who picked up the WOT references - the useless Ministry pamphlets, the pendulum swinging from a Minister who ignored the death eater problem, to one who mainly tried to look tough, and imprisoned innocents? JKR said that she'd planned this sort of thing before 9/11.

down to the pamphlets?

	10-08-2005 00:50									#486
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GROVE ST 4 LIFE!

	10-08-2005 00:52									#487
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker The proof is simple: Snape saved Harry first year at the Quidditch match. He had no reason to do so at all, unless he was good. He could've done nothing.

Didnt he have an obligation, cause James had saved him? (even if Snape didnt feel positive about that saving)

	10-08-2005 00:54									#488
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark down to the pamphlets?

She didn't say that specifically.

	10-08-2005 00:55									#489
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quote: In book 5 and 6 harrys coming of age work is principally becoming independent of dumbledore. In book 5 this is emotional independence, learning D's fallibility. In book 6 its D actually dying. Not as artful.

I think you misinterpret what Book 6 was meant to be. It really wasn't about Harry, or even Dumbledore, at all. It was about the coming of age of Voldemort and his lonely quest for immortality, and it was brilliant on that.

	10-08-2005 00:59									#490
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quote: Originally posted by Verto quote: Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715) This helps the idea that Snape was only doing as ordered by Dumbledore, or that even if he wasn't, he didn't want to kill him.

This would seem to indicate either that A. Snape really wanted DD dead, and had given the vow voluntarily. or B. The AK curse was ineffective, and wasnt what killed DD or C. Bellatrixs words only apply to cruciatus - AK doesnt seem to be painful, why would you need to really want to cause pain to use it? All you need to want is to kill the person, which Snape may have wanted in line with DD's plans.

	10-08-2005 01:07									#491
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: In book 5 and 6 harrys coming of age work is principally becoming independent of dumbledore. In book 5 this is emotional independence, learning D's fallibility. In book 6 its D actually dying. Not as artful. I think you misinterpret what Book 6 was meant to be. It really wasn't about Harry, or even Dumbledore, at all. It was about the coming of age of Voldemort and his lonely quest for immortality, and it was brilliant on that.

It was good on that - im not sure id say brilliant. And of course I continue to think that this is a coming of age story. In book 6 Harry is finally brought in as a full partner by Dumbledore, and has to deal with the conflict of responsibility and friendship, as quidditch captain, and the conflict of romantic love and friendship (which is really the point of the Ginny subplot - how does Harry balance that against his friendship for Ron) but none of that is as interesting, or as central, as his angst about DD and Sirius and the order and his parents in Book 5. Remember the war is not only about the hard vs the easy path - its also about the power of love, vs the power of magic (or technology, or money, or whatever to those who see this as like, having a moral for the muggle reader) And that realization, though expressed in the war against V, is very much a coming of age theme.

Anyone have a link to the last HP thread, where we debated "its about the war" vs "its about coming of age" Id like to go back and see what I predicted.

	10-08-2005 01:32									#492
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quote: And of course I continue to think that this is a coming of age story.

quote: none of that is as interesting, or as central, as his angst about DD and Sirius and the order and his parents in Book 5.

If you think it is a 'coming of age' story that stuff is definetly as central as any angst about the Order or parents or anything. His growing up and maturing with respect to his friends and lovers is central to a 'coming of age' story.

Oh, and it's still about the war. If anything, Book 6 solidified that by being mostly about what made Tom Riddle Voldemort and questions about Snape's alliegance. The relationships and friendships were background stuff really, designed to flesh out the characters.

	10-08-2005 01:37									#493
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It's not to flesh out the characters, it's to allow them (Ron especially) to grow up and change in personality.

	10-08-2005 01:43									#494
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

quote: And of course I continue to think that this is a coming of age story.

quote: none of that is as interesting, or as central, as his angst about DD and Sirius and the order and his parents in Book 5.

quote: If you think it is a 'coming of age' story that stuff is definetly as central as any angst about the Order or parents or anything. His growing up and maturing with respect to his friends and lovers is central to a 'coming of age' story.

I guess what i meant was the angst about the order was integrated into the war arc in OOTP. While the love and friendship stuff just seems to hang out there, and isnt real connected to the war in HBP.

quote: Oh, and it's still about the war. If anything, Book 6 solidified that by being mostly about what made Tom Riddle Voldemort and questions about Snape's alliegance. The relationships and friendships were background stuff really, designed to flesh out the characters.

Well the Snape stuff IS about Harry - Harrys continued taking the easy way out in potions (while OTOH, he rejects the easy way of selling out to the Ministry, and of going with a phoney "networker" like Slughorn) and his attempt to outguess DD. In that sense it becomes very interesting if Snape IS evil - not as showing a DD mistake, so much as showing Harry gaining superior insight. Its interesting that Harry was right about Malfoy, and Hermione wrong, a change ( i think) from the earlier books.

	10-08-2005 03:11									#495
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quote: I guess what i meant was the angst about the order was integrated into the war arc in OOTP. While the love and friendship stuff just seems to hang out there, and isnt real connected to the war in HBP.

But if it's a 'coming of age' story, then you shouldn't be concerned if it isn't connected to the war

quote: Well the Snape stuff IS about Harry - Harrys continued taking the easy way out in potions (while OTOH, he rejects the easy way of selling out to the Ministry, and of going with a phoney "networker" like Slughorn) and his attempt to outguess DD. In that sense it becomes very interesting if Snape IS evil - not as showing a DD mistake, so much as showing Harry gaining superior insight. Its interesting that Harry was right about Malfoy, and Hermione wrong, a change ( i think) from the earlier books.

Everything ultimately comes back to Harry... he's the primary character after all. However, that doesn't mean the story of Snape is directly about him (until the final 'turn' or 'duel'). And I don't really see Snape as actually evil. Rowling's manner seems to suggest Snape as ultimately good. And while Dumbledore can be wrong, by making him soooo wrong about the loyalty of Snape makes him look like a total idiot. Can Harry really have 'superior insight' when a great number of others in the Order didn't trust Snape as well. And if he is gaining superior insight over Dumbledore, does that mean that Dumbledore didn't have very good insight at all?

	10-08-2005 03:36									#496
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Five more posts and we're through with Harry Potter

	10-08-2005 04:56									#497
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Having spent the last two weeks catching up on the storyline, culminating in the reading of this, the latest installment, I have to say that I think the Snape thing is a ruse.

If it was me writing the story, I'd not go this particular route except to ultimately show Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore. He has said repeatedly that he trusts Snape with his life....and now, we have seen the fruition of that very trust.

I think Snape and big D have a plan already set up to bring him back....baddies all think he's dead, and thus, will not be looking for him. AND, it comes with the bonus of making Harry believe that he HAS to stand fully on his own. It's the perfect setup.

I think this has all been pre-arranged.

-=Vel=-

	10-08-2005 07:46									#498
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I would have expected the behavior of both of them to be more in book 4 or earlier (but then there was a decent number of pregnancies in my school at those ages)

Not in mine. I went to an upper-middle class suburban high school that was a third Chinese, a third Persian, and a third Whitey. No pregnancies that I knew of.

quote: 7. Am I the only one who picked up the WOT references - the useless Ministry pamphlets, the pendulum swinging from a Minister who ignored the death eater problem, to one who mainly tried to look tough, and imprisoned innocents?

I loved the Bush-bashing.

	10-08-2005 08:31									#499
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my highschool was mostly white and hispanic

there might have been 1 black girl, and a couple asian girls (sisters)

JM

	12-08-2005 22:21									#500
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Ah, I just finished it, and it was another great read. I do have a few questions and comments.

First off, I don't mind about Ginny, but what happened to Cho? I liked her. Will there REALLY be no Hogwarts next year? That would be weird, but even if the school keeps on running, the book will be set all around England as we follow Harry's quest to destroy the Horcruxes and ultimately Voldy. Seeing more of the wizarding world will be fantastic. Snape is a very interesting character. If he is ultimately good as most of you have decided, I'm just curious why he had to have been a complete d1ck to Harry every day for so many years. As for the Horcruxes mystery, I just hope Rowling put as much thought into the mystery as you guys have.

	12-08-2005 22:27									#501
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quote: what happened to Cho?

As an ex she was spurned by Harry and his friends .

	12-08-2005 22:47									#502
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 Snape is a very interesting character. If he is ultimately good as most of you have decided, I'm just curious why he had to have been a complete d1ck to Harry every day for so many years.

Cuz he looks just like his chief tormenter as a kid, Harry's father, James Potter.

	12-08-2005 22:55									#503
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I'm willing to bet that Snape made an unbreakable vow to Dumbledore. That's why Dumbledore was so sure about Snape...

	12-08-2005 23:48									#504
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz he looks just like his chief tormenter as a kid, Harry's father, James Potter.

Seems like more than enough payback for a grown man on a young boy. But I'll take it.

quote: I'm willing to bet that Snape made an unbreakable vow to Dumbledore. That's why Dumbledore was so sure about Snape...

That makes sense, but I want to know more! Only, what, a year or three.

	13-08-2005 00:03									#505
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Here is a puzzler. What would Harry do if he had to kill not himself, but one of his friends? Love or victory?

	13-08-2005 00:05									#506
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz he looks just like his chief tormenter as a kid, Harry's father, James Potter.

Also cuz he loved Lily and Harry is living proof that James, his enemy, got her instead. Also cuz he blames Harry for Lily's death, emotionally.

	13-08-2005 00:06									#507
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 Here is a puzzler. What would Harry do if he had to kill not himself, but one of his friends? Love or victory?

Fun fun... what would you think he'd do?

	13-08-2005 00:45									#508
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He wouldn't do it. He never ever would. Ron, Hermione and now Ginny are the most important things to him in the world. The Boy Who Lived would rather die or lose or WHATEVER than give up his buds. I was going to say Rowling wouldn't write her way into the conundrum I suggested, but I realized she couldnt. Harry never would let himself into that position. He would die fighting. Taking after his parents, either subconsciously or consciously, he definitely would die fighting for his loved ones.

	13-08-2005 00:48									#509
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less than 100 pages and then I can join in this conversation...

	13-08-2005 00:50									#510
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Fun fun... what would you think he'd do?

"THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED! DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS!"