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Immortal Wombat is offline Immortal Wombat
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 05:58 Visit Immortal Wombat's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Myrtle's murder is significant to him, as is the fact that this is when he discovered he was Slytherin's heir. He'd want to commemorate both events, adn what better way than to use his special plaque as a horcrux.
Dunno. Using his special diary, maybe?

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
But the way it was written, though, it seems to me, that he was more interested in finding out if it could be done multiple times. He'd already been thinking about this, which means he already knew something about it.

Whether or not he already knew how to cast the spell is just a guess.

Seems pretty clear to me. He knows what they are and what they mean for him, but not how to make them.

[Slughorn]"The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion —"
[Riddle]"Encase? But how — ?"
[Slughorn]"There is a spell, do not ask me, I don't know!"

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 06:07 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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All good points.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:06
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Also, if you hold stock in Dumbledore's general impression on Voldemort's horcrux, the final one has to be something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's. The diary was one, the ring, Hufflepuff's cup, the locket, and Nagini. Although Nagini seemed to be more speculative. The special award to the school wouldn't fit as something from Ravenclaw or Gryffindor (IIRC, Dippet gave him the special award and he was a Slytherin, so that doesn't work neither).

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:34
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Definitely could be the Award; we've got all sorts of possibilities to consider, don't we?

Harry
Nagini
Godric's sword
Other relic of Godric kept by the Potters as descendants
Relic of Ravenclaw
Something to do with Ollivander
Special Award for Service to the School
...anything else?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:36
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I don't know if it could have been the sword. Dumbledore seemed pretty confident that it hadn't left Hogwarts since Voldemort got there and that he was only interviewing for the job to get at the sword.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:37
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I agree, highly unlikely, but as the only identified relic of Gryffindor, it must be given at least a moment's consideration.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:39
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Btw, who owned the Sorting Hat? For some reason I thought it was GG's, but it may be something I totally made up .

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:44
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Speaking of reading carefully, in the chapter "Dobby's Reward" in CoS:

quote:
"Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" Harry said, thunderstruck.

"It certainly seems so." [Dumbledore]




Though Rowling is surely getting a kick out of us parsing through the books looking for that horcrux .

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:46
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That's what I'm talking about! Merci, Imran! (And the Sorting Hat is another terrific idea.)

When Harry is revealed to be a horcrux in Book Seven, I'm going to totally trumpet my pwnage on you fools.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:48 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
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Which would be false since he already took that part back in GoF.

ACK!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
Which would be false since he already took that part back in GoF.

ACK!


He took the blood back, but there is no evidence he took anything else back. If Harry is indeed a horcrux, more than simply taking blood would be needed to take back the horcrux (IMO)... especially since aborted-fetus-Voldemort needed his father's bones, and Pettigrew's hand as well as Harry's blood to resurrect himself (the 7th part of the soul).

Perhaps he did take the horcrux back and that is why DD had the look of triumph on his face, but wouldn't that make it 6 parts of the soul instead of the magical 7?

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That could be how Harry is able to kill him without dying himself; however, I feel the fact that Voldemort is able to completely possess Harry at the end of Book 5 shows that there is still a piece of Riddle in Harry...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:54
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And there is that possession thing that Guy just mentioned. I can see where people who think Voldemort took back the horcrux, but the greatest link between Harry and Voldemort happened right afterwards.

What a great series... even after the discussion fades away a person who just finished or thinks of something new can spark another spirited discussion

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 09:57
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The look of triumph is definitely important... I think DD knew that Harry was somehow a horcrux (unbeknownest to Riddle), and he had hoped that the blood had removed Riddle's soul.

Book 5 would seem to suggest that it did not work in that manner.

What else could the look of triumph have meant?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 10:04
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It may have something to do with having the ancient magical protections of love inside of Voldemort. V never really thought them to be important and got burned. To make sure that never happened (while not having to debase himself by learning them), he took Harry's blood which included that magical protection.

Something about having love inside of Voldemort when he has always underestimated that magic may be highly significant.... and no I don't think that means Voldemort does a Darth Vader like turn.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Also, if you hold stock in Dumbledore's general impression on Voldemort's horcrux, the final one has to be something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's. The diary was one, the ring, Hufflepuff's cup, the locket, and Nagini. Although Nagini seemed to be more speculative. The special award to the school wouldn't fit as something from Ravenclaw or Gryffindor (IIRC, Dippet gave him the special award and he was a Slytherin, so that doesn't work neither).


I was rereading GoF and came across an interesting tidbit in the Sorting Hat speech - the Sorting Hat itself is an artifact of Gryffindor's.

EDIT: I see you thought of it already

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 10:21
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Ah, thanks for the fact finding, Kuci!! I thought of the idea, but I thought I made it up or something when I couldn't find it at the end of CoS (though I did find the quote I posted)!!

Damn I wished post counts counted in the OT... I think this is like my 108th post in this thread .

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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quote:
A thousand years ago or more
When I was newly sewn,
There lived four wizards of renown,
Whose names are still well known:
Bold Gryffindor, from wild moor,
Fair Ravenclaw, from glen,
Sweet Hufflepuff, from valley broad,
Shrewd Slytherin, from fen,
They shared a wish, a hope, a dream,
They hatched a daring plan
To educate young sorcerers
Thus Hogwarts School began.
Now each of these four founders
Formed their own house, for each
Did value different virtues
In the ones they had to teach.
By Gryffindor, the bravest were
Prized far beyond the rest;
For Ravenclaw, the cleverest
Would always be the best;
For Hufflepuff, hard workers were
Most worthy of admission;
And power-hungry Slytherin
Loved those of great ambition.
While still alive they did divide
Their favorites from the throng,
Yet how to pick the worthy ones
When they were dead and gone?

'Twas Gryffindor who found the way,
He whipped me off his head

The founders put some brains in me
So I could choose instead!
Now slip me snug about your ears,
I've never yet been wrong,
I'll have a look inside your mind
And tell where you belong!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 10:24
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Very interesting... of course that also suffers to the same problems as the sword. When could Voldemort get close enough to put a horcrux in either?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 10:26
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The sword is stuck in the hat and only a "true Gryffindor" (whatever that means, it clearly does not apply to Volde) can retrieve it. However, it's not impossible for Volde to have had access to the Sorting Hat... he just has to get inside the headmaster's office.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:42
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The question is how easy was it to get inside the Headmaster's Office? Harry gets in all the time because Dumbledore has a fondness for him. Did Dippet feel the same way towards Tom? I dunno..

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:44
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omfg close this shitty thread already!

Japher is offline Japher
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:45
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quote:
The question is how easy was it to get inside the Headmaster's Office? Harry gets in all the time because Dumbledore has a fondness for him. Did Dippet feel the same way towards Tom? I dunno..


I think another important fact is that Riddle wanted, very badly, to teach at the school... why? I don't think it was because it felt like home. I think he was looking for something. Probably the same thing he was looking for when he opened the CoS, which was probably an accident.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The question is how easy was it to get inside the Headmaster's Office? Harry gets in all the time because Dumbledore has a fondness for him. Did Dippet feel the same way towards Tom? I dunno..


I imagine that the headmaster isn't in the office all the time. Further, I imagine that Tom could find out the password to the headmaster's office pretty easily (he could ask Slughorn, for instance). He may know it anyway from being Head Boy. The only question is whether the portraits would notice.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:49
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This is the second longest thread in the OT, surpassed only by the London bombings thread.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 19:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I imagine that the headmaster isn't in the office all the time. Further, I imagine that Tom could find out the password to the headmaster's office pretty easily (he could ask Slughorn, for instance). He may know it anyway from being Head Boy. The only question is whether the portraits would notice.


I'd imagine the portraits would inform Dumbledore about an intruder. As for getting it from Slughorn, I don't think Hogwarts professors are in the habit of giving passwords to the headmaster's office to students and do Head Boys have access at any time? I think they only have access at the request of the headmaster.

And remember the password changes every few months. I don't think it'd be easy to get it.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 16-08-2005 20:02
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quote:
I'd imagine the portraits would inform Dumbledore about an intruder.


He would have done this when Dippet was headmaster.

quote:
As for getting it from Slughorn, I don't think Hogwarts professors are in the habit of giving passwords to the headmaster's office to students and do Head Boys have access at any time?


I don't think Hogwarts professors are in the habit of explaining horcruxes to students either.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 20:08
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quote:
He would have done this when Dippet was headmaster.


Pah... same difference.

quote:
I don't think Hogwarts professors are in the habit of explaining horcruxes to students either.


If a top student asked, perhaps they would have engaged them in some conversation about it. You could tell Slughorn realized midway through the conversation that it was a mistake to discuss it.

That being said, even then there is no chance that Slughorn is telling students the headmaster's password without being allowed to by the headmaster himself.

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 20:10
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Why not?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 16-08-2005 20:20
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Cause he's not evil, as the last book established.

Why in the Hell would a Professor give out the headmaster's password?

 
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