16-08-2005 01:47									#541
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Japher's very close.

	16-08-2005 01:48									#542
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Depends on what you mean by victim. The boy and girl led to the cave were probably the first victim of Tom Riddle, Jr.

	16-08-2005 01:56									#543
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If Pettigrew killed Voldemort, out of blood debt to Harry, would it look too cheesily like LOTR?

	16-08-2005 01:59									#544
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark If Pettigrew killed Voldemort, out of blood debt to Harry, would it look too cheesily like LOTR?

It would definetly look too cheesy. Pettigrew should die in the end... only fitting.

	16-08-2005 02:00									#545
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Depends on what you mean by victim. The boy and girl led to the cave were probably the first victim of Tom Riddle, Jr.

They didn't die.

	16-08-2005 02:01									#546
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It would definetly look too cheesy. Pettigrew should die in the end... only fitting.

somebody evil is gonna be redeemed, for sure. Who?

	16-08-2005 02:26									#547
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Pettigrew can be redeemed AND die.

	16-08-2005 02:27									#548
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Depends on what you mean by victim. The boy and girl led to the cave were probably the first victim of Tom Riddle, Jr.

He wasn't exactly a wizard at that point, though

	16-08-2005 02:33									#549
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Japher's very close.

You made me have to do a MrFun.

	16-08-2005 03:07									#550
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Was the chamber of secrets where each of Ravenclaw, Huffelpuff, Slythering, and Griffindor placed an object? Who was it that didn't haven an item that Voldemort had stolen or turned into a Hexawhatever?

	16-08-2005 03:15									#551
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What did he get because of it?

spoiler(highlight to read): Special award for services to the school

	16-08-2005 03:16									#552
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Was the chamber of secrets where each of Ravenclaw, Huffelpuff, Slythering, and Griffindor placed an object? Who was it that didn't haven an item that Voldemort had stolen or turned into a Hexawhatever?

No. The three non-evil founders were not aware that the Chamber of Secrets existed, IIRC. Gryffindor is the one whose relic is known not to be a horcrux - the sword.

	16-08-2005 03:17									#553
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat spoiler(highlight to read): Special award for services to the school

He didn't have that with him at the time of the murder, though. I'm pretty sure the two have to be in very close proximity.

	16-08-2005 03:18									#554
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat No. The three non-evil founders were not aware that the Chamber of Secrets existed, IIRC. Gryffindor is the one whose relic is known not to be a horcrux - the sword.

Slytherin wasn't evil either, I'm quite sure.

	16-08-2005 03:20									#555
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker He didn't have that with him at the time of the murder, though. I'm pretty sure the two have to be in very close proximity.

We don't know that, though. It may be the case, but that's pure guessing.

	16-08-2005 03:21									#556
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But it's more plausible than the alternative, IMO.

	16-08-2005 03:25									#557
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Why? On what basis can you make that claim? Murder tears the soul, and there's nothing that says the soul repairs itself.

	16-08-2005 03:29									#558
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Myrtle died the last term when Riddle was a prefect (end of 5th year at Hogwarts), but in the scene with Slughorn's memory, Dumbledore says that Riddle was roughly the same age as Harry, half way through his 6th year. Which would suggest that Riddle didn't even know about horcruxes when he had Myrtle killed. Which would mean that the delay between the killing and the horcruxification of the award would have to be even greater.

	16-08-2005 03:34									#559
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That assumes that Riddle didn't know about horcruxes at all. Obviously he knew about them, because he was asking about them. He was looking for more specific info, I think.

Anyway, Myrtle's death isn't necessarily used to make the horcrux, but it is his first murder, something he'd want to commemorate, and he's a trophy taker (like many serial killers). In addition, that's when he found out he was the heir of Slytherin.

	16-08-2005 03:39									#560
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why? On what basis can you make that claim? Murder tears the soul, and there's nothing that says the soul repairs itself.

No. You can use a murder to tear your soul. At least, that's how I understand it.

	16-08-2005 03:40									#561
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No, in the book, it said specifically, murder tears the soul. You can then use that tear to rip off a piece and create a horcrux.

	16-08-2005 03:46									#562
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He didn't know the spell to use or he wouldn't have tried to get it out of Slughorn. Why make the old guy more uncomfortable than necessary?

He must have found out he was heir before killing Myrtle, and he has the diary to commemorate that anyway. Admittedly, have a trophy for services to the school as a horcrux would be his style, but until we know more about how horcruxes are made, I think it is probably a stretch.

	16-08-2005 03:48									#563
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Che's right, and the trophy seems probable... especially with the mentality of Riddle, as Che points out. Also, it would be a sign from the school that says "we care", and Riddle really loved the school. It seems to have it. Good one Che

	16-08-2005 04:13									#564
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I doubt he could make a horcrux out of Myrtle's murder since he didn't murder her, the basilisk did. (he was responsible of course )

	16-08-2005 04:50									#565
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It also may just be AK's that create the tear.

	16-08-2005 04:51									#566
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Interesting theory che. However, the long time period from Myrtle's death to the award being given to Tom has to be explained, as well as not really knowing all that much about horcruxes until talking to Sluggy. It's possible, but if you could harness a split soul from a murder indefinetly, you wonder why Voldemort didn't create 7 horcruxes before going after Godric's Hollow (I'd assume he killed more than 7 people before hearing part of the prophecy).

I'm inclined to lean towards no, but definetly intriguing...

And Nacht is correct, he didn't directly kill Myrtle, but sent the basilik. Perhaps you don't need to use the Avada Kedavra curse, but my understanding was you had to directly intend to kill a person and it seemed like Myrtle was convenient, but not specifically intended to be killed.

	16-08-2005 05:21									#567
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Why is this thread still open?

	16-08-2005 05:22									#568
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark quote: originally posted by Kuciwalker I wonder when the mods'll notice that this has hit 510 posts. Not till the charm wears off.

	16-08-2005 05:32									#569
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It's possible, but if you could harness a split soul from a murder indefinetly, you wonder why Voldemort didn't create 7 horcruxes before going after Godric's Hollow

We don't know that he didn't. It's pure speculation that the murder of Harry was intended to make the 7th horcrux. Even Dumbledore was just guessing about the snake, Nagini.

In any event, Myrtyle's murder is less significant for it being used to make a horcrux, than it being his first murder. Remember, Voldimort is a serial killer, and Rowling has designed him that way too. Myrtle's murder is significant to him, as is the fact that this is when he discovered he was Slytherin's heir. He'd want to commemorate both events, adn what better way than to use his special plaque as a horcrux.

Remember that what applies to the plaque also applies to Marvolo's ring, and Riddle killed three people when he got the ring (and was responsible for the premature death of his uncle by sending him to Azkaban).

	16-08-2005 05:35									#570
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat He didn't know the spell to use or he wouldn't have tried to get it out of Slughorn. Why make the old guy more uncomfortable than necessary?

But the way it was written, though, it seems to me, that he was more interested in finding out if it could be done multiple times. He'd already been thinking about this, which means he already knew something about it.

Whether or not he already knew how to cast the spell is just a guess.