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Does Mali deserve to be a civ in Civilization IV? (Time out:0 days after 20-07-2005, 05:53)
Yes, Mali is an excellent choice to be in the game
Yes, Mali is a good choice to represent "black Africa"
Yes, but then I'd like to see every civ in the game eventually
I don't care as long as there is a civ to represent "black Africa"
I don't care what civilizations are in the game
No, the Zulus should be in instead
No, some other African civ should be in instead
No, another (non-African) civ deserves to be in instead
No, mali doesn't belong in the game at all
There should be no South Pacific island civs in the game!
I want a banana-republic civ to be in the game
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Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 05:45
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In the thread Mali Delenda Est, there's a debate about whether Mali deserves to be in Civ IV. I'm curious how many people fall on each side of the issue. So, for the above poll, make a selection which most closely represents what you feel. The following are explanations of the above selections:

Yes, Mali is an excellent choice: You think Mali deserves to be in the game for its credentials alone.

Yes, Mali is a good representative of Africa: You think there should be a (black) African civ, and Mali should be that civ. It's a good replacement for the Zulu (who are not in the game by the way).

Yes, but then I'd like too see every civ eventually in the game: You want to see a Civ game with just about every viable civilization imaginable, so including Mali is just a small step towards that goal.

I don't care, as long as there is a "black African" civ: You want an African civ to be in the game, but you don't care which one it is.

I don't care what civilizations are included in the game: Self-explanatory

No, the Zulus should be in: You'd rather see the Zulus in the game than Mali.

No, another African civ deserves to be in the game more: An African civ (other than the Zulus) should be in the game, but it shouldn't be Mali.

No, another (non-African) civ deserves to be in the game more: Self-explanatory. Please specify which civilization(s). (If you would list more than 20 civilizations, you should probably pick the next selection below. )

No, Mali doesn't belong in Civ at all: Even if they put out expansion packs with 30 or so new civs, Mali still shouldn't be in the game.

There shouldn't be any South Pacific island civs in the game: Answer this if you know nothing about Mali, and aren't afraid to admit it.

A banana-republic should be in instead: Standard banana response.

Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 06:04
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And to start things off, I think there should be a civilization to represent "black Africa", and Mali is a good choice for that. I don't care if you label this as 'tokenism' or 'PC'. I would say the same thing about including an American civ.

By the way, I hope nobody's offended by the term "black African". I don't mean anything derogatory by it.

Alexander01 is offline Alexander01

Prince
USA
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 06:09
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Maybe in an expansion pack.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 06:11
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I want some modicum of geographical balance in the civ selection. And Mali is a much better representative of sub-Saharan Africa than is Zululand.

ArchdukeNewell is offline ArchdukeNewell
Chieftain
California
Jul 2005
time: 21:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 09:13 Visit ArchdukeNewell's homepage!
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I still hold that the Ottomans deserve the spot well ahead of the Malinese.

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 11:27
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I hope Mali wasn't included as a "token" sub-saharan African civ. I voted for another African civ. Others such as ancient Ethiopia, ancient Zimbabwe, Ghana, etc. are just as worthy. Choosing the lesser known Mali struck me as odd. I know someone from Mali, if he were a Civ player I'm sure he'd be pleased.

That brings up another point. I had the impression that the civs were chosen by taking into consideration where the prospective buyers are from. My own nation, America, is very young on a Civ scale but it has lots of Civ players and buyers. Mali on the other hand probably has next to no players. I'd be willing to say that in Africa itself the majority of players are in South Africa and possibly Nigeria or Kenya. If the South Africans are the majority in Africa then that would make a case for including the Zulu (or Xhosa, Swazi, etc) instead of Mali.

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 12:41
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quote:
If the South Africans are the majority in Africa then that would make a case for including the Zulu (or Xhosa, Swazi, etc) instead of Mali.

For some reason, I have trouble imagining a boer playing as the Zulus...

Sabre2th is offline Sabre2th
King

Nov 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 13:18
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I voted banana because I didn't really like your choices. I would like to see Mali in for two reasons:


  1. They represent something more of a builder civ than most
  2. It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations

AeonOfTime is offline AeonOfTime
Warlord
Overclocking DOSBox
Nov 2000
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 14:12 Visit AeonOfTime's homepage!
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quote:
@Sabre2th: It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations




I voted yes - I have discovered Mali culture through the Mali Delenda Est thread, and I like it. Moreover, I don't care which civs are in as long as I can have fun playing the game with them...

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 17:27
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in. why not mix it up a little? Some of you people are too uptight about a computer game.

patcon is offline patcon
Warlord

Jan 2004
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 17:52
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I'd vote for the second option, but for some reason I keep getting a message that I can't vote because of an "invalid session", whatever that means.

I guess since I live in Florida this is Apolyton's retribution for the (election) fiasco in 2000.

Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 18:10 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I want a banana-republic civ to be in the game

Masuro is offline Masuro
Emperor
Gangneung, South Korea
Nov 2000
time: 14:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 19:57 Visit Masuro's homepage!
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I think Ethiopia should be in the game. They are mentioned in many ancient books (Herodotus, for example), traded with the Arabs and the Chinese, and were the first to cultivate coffee. If that isn't a contribution to civilisation I don't know what is.

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 20:13
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We clearly need more Mali threads.

Come on, slackers, spam away. Posts count in this forum!

As for the original question. There should be at least one tribe from each large continent (sorry Paddy, Australia is just an island in my books ). I don't give a rats ass if this is Mali, Zulu, Ethiopia or whatever for Africa. And I know one thing for sure: In Africa grows classy

Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
I voted banana because I didn't really like your choices. I would like to see Mali in for two reasons:


  1. They represent something more of a builder civ than most
  2. It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations


Seeing your reasons, you could've picked the top option as well. I could've had every possible option available, but then I don't like opinion polls that have too many options. 11 options are enough.

ZabrakMaul is offline ZabrakMaul
Settler

Jul 2005
time: 05:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 22:29 Visit ZabrakMaul's homepage!
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i SAY THAT bABYLON SHOULD GET IN BEFORE mALI EVER DOES!

Oops. Left the Caps Lock on!

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 23:25
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Babylon should be in, but let's kick some European civ instead; there's too many of those already.

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
King
Apolyton's Resident Law Enforcement Officer. Founder of the Glory of War, Champions of Apolyton!
Jul 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 23:35
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-republic.

If you don't like which civs are in, CHANGE THEM!! Get over it!


PS: +1

Alexander01 is offline Alexander01

Prince
USA
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 23:35
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There's only five, and each is distinct from the others. Plus other than America, those five are the places where a majority of civ games will be purchased.

England
France
Germany
Russia
Spain

Which one would you kick out? I say ditch Spain.

Sabre2th is offline Sabre2th
King

Nov 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 01:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Xorbon


Seeing your reasons, you could've picked the top option as well. I could've had every possible option available, but then I don't like opinion polls that have too many options. 11 options are enough.


I don't think they're an excellent choice or even necessarily a good choice. It's just nice to see a new Civ.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 01:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
There's only five, and each is distinct from the others. Plus other than America, those five are the places where a majority of civ games will be purchased.

England
France
Germany
Russia
Spain

Which one would you kick out? I say ditch Spain.

I'd probably kick Germany.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 01:33
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Of these countries, Russia is obviously the one that'll have the fewer sales.

I'd actually support ditching France, Spain and Britain, in order to replace them with more ancient Civs, or civs from around the world. But the customer base in these countries would be quite furious I think.

Alexander01 is offline Alexander01

Prince
USA
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 02:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist

I'd probably kick Germany.


You're just saying that because I'm German!

vStauffenberg is offline vStauffenberg
Settler

Jul 2005
time: 05:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 02:26
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How about this (*take deep breath*): Let's ditch America *duck*
for, America:
1. is far too young to start at 4000BC (ok, this holds for most other civs, too, but the most for america)
2. america is only eupean history part 2, anyway (*duck and RUN*)

AeonOfTime is offline AeonOfTime
Warlord
Overclocking DOSBox
Nov 2000
time: 06:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 02:28 Visit AeonOfTime's homepage!
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I'd gladly kick any of the european civs out. I was born in germany and moved to france when I was 9, but I would buy the game even if those two were not in...

But then, if the russians are still stuck with Catherine, I would cast my vote on them without hesitation - even my pet werewolf gets the creeps when he sees her

vStauffenberg is offline vStauffenberg
Settler

Jul 2005
time: 05:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 02:31
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just kidding

AeonOfTime is offline AeonOfTime
Warlord
Overclocking DOSBox
Nov 2000
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  Old Post 21-07-2005 02:40 Visit AeonOfTime's homepage!
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quote:
@vStauffenberg: Let's ditch America


I'm a supporter of bold ideas, let's ditch'em

But as you already know, unless you've got fast feet bold ideas can be quite unhealthy... heheh

Alexander01 is offline Alexander01

Prince
USA
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 03:04
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Not gonna happen --

for too many reasons to list here.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 03:21 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I really don't care. It's all the same. They are just letters on a CRT screen (or LCD)

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 21-07-2005 03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01


You're just saying that because I'm German!

Nein, in der Tat nicht.

 
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