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lightblue is offline lightblue
Chieftain
L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:29
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And according to defense experts on TV it was unlikely that these officers were police, more like to be special forces of some sorts (SAS, SBS or something along those lines).

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:31 Visit Asher's homepage!
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http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/natio...don-050722.html

quote:

Fatal shooting 'directly linked' to bomb probes: police
Last Updated Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:30:01 EDT
CBC News

London police say a man they shot to death in front of horrified subway riders Friday was "directly linked" to their investigation of recent bombings aimed at the city's transit system.

* INDEPTH: Londing bombing investigation

Police officers stand guard as a police cameraman enters Stockwell Underground station in south London, Friday July 22. (AP photo)

The man, who was wearing a thick coat despite the fact that it was a about 21C in the British capital, ran from plainclothes police who challenged him at a subway station one day after four failed bombings.

* FROM JULY 21, 2005: New attacks on London transit system

"The man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions," said Scotland Yard head Ian Blair. "I'm not going to go any further."

The shooting happened shortly after 10 a.m. local time at the Stockwell station, which is close to the Oval station, one of the four sites of Thursday's attempted bombings. The Northern and Victoria subway lines, which run through Stockwell station, were shut down in the wake of the shooting.

Police said the man was pronounced dead at the scene.

"He half-tripped and was half-pushed to the floor," passenger Mark Whitby told the British Broadcasting Corporation. "I didn't see him carrying anything."

Whitby said he saw a police officer fire five shots into the man, whom he described as South Asian and wearing a thick coat.

Eyewitnesses say the man ran into the subway station, vaulted over a barrier, ran down some stairs and tripped. Plainclothes officers then reportedly shot him in the head.

On Thursday, four people tried to set off explosive devices on three subways and one bus. The lunchtime attack caused no injuries, except for one person who was hospitalized for an asthma attack.

The July 7 bombings killed 56 people and injured more than 700.

No community a target, say police
London subway commuters read the morning headlines on Friday. (AP Photo)

While most police in Britain do not carry guns, officers with special licences can do so.

The standard policy saying officers should not use a gun except as a last resort was changed after the July 7 bombings, giving police the authority to shoot suspected suicide bombers first and ask questions later.

Shortly after Friday's subway shooting, the Muslim Council of Britain issued a news release asking why police had targeted a man of South Asian origin.

Blair said the investigation is not targeted against any section of any community in the United Kingdom, though three of the four suspects identified by police in connection with the July 7 bombings were British-born Muslims of Pakistani origin. (The fourth suspect was a Jamaican-born British citizen.)

The police commissioner appealed for calm from all of the nation's ethnic communities as the investigation continues.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by lightblue
And according to defense experts on TV it was unlikely that these officers were police, more like to be special forces of some sorts


Maybe Judge Dredd was there, after all.

DarkCloud is offline DarkCloud
Civ3 Stories Editor
of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:44 Visit DarkCloud<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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And general ludd, I'm certain that you would object to police shooting a guy who pulls a toy gun on them (which they think is a real gun), as well. if you threaten a police officer and disobey orders, you take your life into your own hands, regardless of whether you're guilty of something or not. The whole idea behind police is to 'serve and protect.' They can only help people if people pay attention to their commands.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:06
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
And general ludd, I'm certain that you would object to police shooting a guy who pulls a toy gun on them (which they think is a real gun), as well. if you threaten a police officer and disobey orders, you take your life into your own hands, regardless of whether you're guilty of something or not. The whole idea behind police is to 'serve and protect.' They can only help people if people pay attention to their commands.


When someone has been restrained there is no reason to shoot him (except in an unusual circumstance like this) and doing so is taking on the role of an executioner, not a police officer.

If you think police should be able to shoot anyone who doesn't immediately obey their commands, well...

Last edited by General Ludd on 22-07-2005 at 22:13

DarkCloud is offline DarkCloud
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  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:14 Visit DarkCloud<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Well, of course I agree with you, and am glad that you seem to agree with me... and I agree that the circumstances were suspicious- but if the guy was indeed wearing a bomb belt, then the police could very well be justified in doing what they did.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:16 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
Well, of course I agree with you, and am glad that you seem to agree with me... and I agree that the circumstances were suspicious- but if the guy was indeed wearing a bomb belt, then the police could very well be justified in doing what they did.

He doesn't even have to actually be wearing the bomb belt, all he had to do was give them enough of a reason to believe he did have explosives on him. Which he certainly did.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I think in the UK and in Canada there's not really an issue with race and police...


Tell that to the blacks in Toronto and the natives in Saskatoon.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:30 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Tell that to the blacks in Toronto and the natives in Saskatoon.

Hmm. My black coworker doesn't have any problems (though he's only been here 6 months, he's from Calgary )

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
Within this context, an abuse of power seems like the most likely conclusion.


In most situations I would be inclined to agree, but...

This was London after two separate bomb attacks on a subway. A man wearing a heavy coat in the middle of summer, running from the cops into a subway...

Maybe the cops overreacted. Maybe the guy was not a threat, but it's understandable why the cops fired and hard to blame them.

This isn't a case of one guy who might have a gun, who might shoot. This is a case where I guy could blow up a train.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai


In most situations I would be inclined to agree, but...

This was London after two separate bomb attacks on a subway. A man wearing a heavy coat in the middle of summer, running from the cops into a subway...

Maybe the cops overreacted. Maybe the guy was not a threat, but it's understandable why the cops fired and hard to blame them.



Yes, but that is all outside of the context I was speaking about.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Hmm. My black coworker doesn't have any problems (though he's only been here 6 months, he's from Calgary )


If you're black and driving an expensive car in Toronto, expect to be pulled over for a routine check.

The Toronto Star did a study of police and found that blacks were more likely to be thrown in jail for minor drug possessions while whites were more likely to begin a ticket and told to appear in court.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...d=1034935301156

The cops *****ed and whined, but were never able to provide any evidence that the Star's statistics were wrong.

Meanwhile, in Saskatoon, there have been cases where the cops pick up drunk Indians and dumped them on the edges of town in the middle of winter in the middle of the night.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:38
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd



Yes, but that is all outside of the context I was speaking about.


Sorry, I thought you were talking about what happened in London today.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai


Tell that to the blacks in Toronto and the natives in Saskatoon.


Or the hispanics in DC, who've complained about racism from BLACK police (though the DC police have done a lot to increase cultural sensitivity since then)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:00 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's interesting that you're taking your experiences in Florida or wherever and assuming they apply everywhere, and even that they're widespread.


This just shows you haven't been reading what I wrote. Neither Chicago nor rural Illinois are in Florida. I haven't even talked about Jacksonville, nor my experiences in suburban Illinois.


edit:

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 22-07-2005 at 23:07

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:02 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
This just shows you haven't been reading what I wrote. Neither Chicago nor rural Illinois are in Chicago.


The quality of your writing leaves much to be desired, seeing as it makes no sense, so you'll have to excuse me for being efficient and just ignoring it.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:04 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
If you're black and driving an expensive car in Toronto, expect to be pulled over for a routine check.

I get pulled over all the time for a routine check! I think they call them Checkpoints here?

quote:
The Toronto Star did a study of police and found that blacks were more likely to be thrown in jail for minor drug possessions while whites were more likely to begin a ticket and told to appear in court.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...d=1034935301156

The cops *****ed and whined, but were never able to provide any evidence that the Star's statistics were wrong.

Meanwhile, in Saskatoon, there have been cases where the cops pick up drunk Indians and dumped them on the edges of town in the middle of winter in the middle of the night.

Looks like it's true, then.

Toronto and Saskatoon are more backwards cultures than civilized places like Alberta. Perhaps they can learn a few more things from us, aside from how to balance a budget.

They have much to learn.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:04 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara

"Neither Chicago nor rural Illinois are in Chicago."

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:05
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


This just shows you haven't been reading what I wrote. Neither Chicago nor rural Illinois are in Chicago.


dont worry about guev folks, its in the water. "its not da job of da police to create disorder. It da job of da police to maintain disorder"

Chi-town does that too people

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:10 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Chi-town does that too people


Only to "some" people

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Toronto and Saskatoon are more backwards cultures than civilized places like Alberta. Perhaps they can learn a few more things from us, aside from how to balance a budget.

They have much to learn.


Well, I won't speak about the folks in Sask, but in Ontario its because we have a truely multicultural population.

But as you say, Alberta is the new Ontario.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:18 Visit Asher's homepage!
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new and improved.

We're richer, better educated, and more tolerant of other cultures.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
new and improved.

We're richer, better educated, and more tolerant of other cultures.


Oh yeah, I forgot how Alberta is so tolerant of homosexuals. Alberta led the way for gay marriages, right.

And most of the educated people in Alberta raking in the big bucks are from out of province.


And the ones educated in Alberta have to go to Ontario to get properly trained.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:49
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"Police say the man shot at Stockwell had been followed by surveillance officers because he had emerged from a house linked to the investigation into Thursday's blasts. "

Wezil is offline Wezil
King
Ontario, Canada
Nov 1999
time: 02:07
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Looks like it's true, then.


Not so fast. There was a problem with their methodology which even the Star fessed up to.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I think in the UK and in Canada there's not really an issue with race and police...


The UK Police are institutionally racist. Read about the Stephen Lawrence case and the subsequent inquiry into the attitude of the police force if you are interested.

I agree with a lot of what you have said in the thread though.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 23-07-2005 00:02
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If it makes Ludd feel better, a recent case where a man believed to be carrying a shotgun was shot by police resulted in the police officers in question being arrested for manslaughter.

BlackCat is offline BlackCat
Warlord

Jul 2004
time: 05:37
  Old Post 23-07-2005 00:17
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People sometimes do pretty stupid things.

Today in Copenhagen airport a jerk said, when his luggage was to be checked, that they should be carefull with one of the bags because there was a bomb in it. Well, there was no bomb - it was supposed to be a joke he said.

Neither security, nor police laughed when they arrested him.

Oh, and no, they didn't shoot him wich I think is a failure - there are a possibility that he may breed.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 23-07-2005 01:40
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OMG! I bet he likes to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater too. Some people...

And did anyone else catch the sentence in Ashers article where it said that one of the supects of the bombings on the 7th was jamaican?! I mean wtf´s up with that?

 
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