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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Myrddin
Most of the patch requirements on CivIII were play balance issues not bugs |
True in numbers, but generally false nonetheless. Here is why:
Game developers usually have at least three categories of bugs:
A) Bugs leading to crashes. Least number, highest priority.
B) Bugs affecting gameplay - game features not working at all or not working as intended. Medium number, medium priority.
C) Minor issues like imbalances. That's what you are talking about. These are most numerous, but have the least priority.
Vanilla Civ3 in its earlier patch levels still had a lot of issues of category A and B. A prominent example was the "last settler on a ship" bug. If a civ had no city left, but still a settler on a ship, and you sunk that ship, the game crashed. It was fixed, if I recall correct, only in one of the 1.2x-ish patch, perhaps 1.21. There were much more such issues, some concerning graphics adapters, drivers, but also in-game situations. Only the last Civ3 patch level 1.29f had no known issues of category A left, at least not to my knowledge. Note, that most of the category A bugs are never mentioned in patch notes, for whatever reason. So it was with the bug mentioned by me too. But I am sure, many of you will remember it.
Since with plain Civ3 most of the heavy bugs (A) had been fixed, Play the World is a classical example of patches dominated by category B. It was the multiplayer expansion of Civ3. Unfortunately, online MP did first not work at all, and later very badly. All PtW patches mainly tried to improve the multiplayer part, without remarkable success as I may add. Multiplayer in the MP expansion did not work. You can hardly call this "mostly a balance issue".
Of course, both in Civ3 and PtW lots of balances have been done also in the patches. However as long as bigger issues are present, this is secondary. Believe me, one bug leading to a crash outweighs several hundred balance issues in the developers books, and in their working schedule.
Your statement is true only for Conquests. All C3C patches were merely balancers, mainly of the corruption formula. The real bugs in C3C, even some of those already found in the beta test, have never been fixed and are in the game until now.
quote:
Balance issues are best picked up through extended testing by experienced players, which CivIII did not have. Civ IV on the other hand is being tested by the absentees from this board and so should be much better on first release. |
You are right, Civ4 is tested by the best people Firaxis could possibly get.
quote:
Will it be better if they spend another 3 months testing it? Not noticeably - so don't delay the release |
No, it will not be better with more testing. But testing is only half of the work. The more important work is fixing the bugs and issues found by the testers. Something, that has been conveniently forgotten in C3C.
I am not calling for a delay by all means.
But the game should be released, when the list of known bugs and issues is empty. I.e., all bugs and issues are not only found, but fixed!
If this goal is achieved in November, fine with me. If it takes until next summer, fine with me too.
But if the game is released in November with a huge lot of remaining issues, I will be seriously upset.
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Aro
Unless you're a Firaxian (are you?  ) |
No. Not even American.
quote:
or a beta tester (are you?  ), |
No. I don't have time for this. I will barely have time to play when it will be released.
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the only way to know if you're happy with the game is buying it... After the release date...  |
No. Believe it or not, but there are still people left on Apolyton, who both love the game, and retained a critical mind to give honest reviews. They are extremely rare, but they exist. And I trust them. When they say, the game is good, I'm sure I can be happy with it, even without actually having bought it.
But I will buy the game nonetheless, because I believe, that it will be good. I expressed multiple times, that I am sure, that Firaxis learned their lesson. May be not in the very first week, but I will buy it by all means.
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Otherwise, you can be happy or unhappy, but only with the reviews, the lack of info from Firaxis, the screenshots, some posters here  etc. It's impossible be happy or unhappy with Civ IV without actually play the game. |
Stop nitpicking.
I said I'd like them to release it, when I am happy with it. Meaning, in the ready state, described above, without bugs and issues left.
I will praise Firaxis and give them credit, when credit is due. Because I want a great Civ game. And judging so far by the announced features, it will be great. The only thing, that can get wrong now, is that they blow the quality. It is complicated. It is like Civ3 squared, by difficulty.
If they succeed to release it with a good quality, with all features working and roughly well balanced and with finetuning being left for patches, I will be the first voice in the choir of cheering fanbois. And I expect nothing less than that.
I will however call a buggy mess a buggy mess, when I see one. I did so with Conquests, for which I had similarly high expectations, and I will do it with Civ4 too, should the unbelievable happen.
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Darkstar
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Huntsville, AL, USA
May 1999
time: 23:37
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Well, I expect the game will ship with some known bugs and issues. I understand Sir Ralph, and would prefer the same. However, it is an industry standard to release a game and have your first patch ready to fix some of the issues you ran out of time fixing before validation and localization deadline forms you to ship off the product.
I just hope that Civ4 out of the box doesn't have many significant CTDs that are easy to find, and that none of the major features are obviously broken. They can beta test the game for 10 years, but the code will always have some issues. No signigicant mass of code is ever perfect, and even if it is, you still have to get all the weights correct for fun gameplay.
I want the best, most perfect game. But I expect the standard piece of distressed digital flesh that Firaxis has delivered in the past on release. If we are lucky, it will be as TIGHT as SMAC. Why do I say that? Because Firaxis has always gotten away with it. Do you really expect them to change that behavior? I don't. Civ4 will sell in huge numbers, even if you cannot install the version that is on the first run CDs. It's Civ. It's going to sell regardless of what a few hundred people might post about it on game forums. And to make it worse, most people expect 2 to 4 patches in the first couple of months. So they know they have a lot of leeway. That will just help the Big Cheeses choose to make their marketting deadlines, rather then let it cook until the developers feel it is truly complete.
I hope I'm wrong, but...
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28-07-2005 20:32
still robbery to ave made so so much money from a product many have purchased, and they would not fix... 
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