26-07-2005 23:58									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th My music preferences not withstanding, I have no problem seeing what people mean by "decadence of music." Because of the problems they had during development, Civ3 fell short of Firaxis's own expectations and those of much of the community. The decrease of features and the number of bugs demonstrate that. Was Civ3 a good game? Yes. Did it have as big of an impact as people wanted/Firaxis intended? No.

Hmm... But you have a problem seeing what I meant with this little joke.

What I'm saying is: It's a matter of opinion. Civ III had a huge impact... for me, and a LOT of big posters here. I can't assume that Civ III is a fiasco because you said so. It's not what my experience tells me. And this is not because I am incapable to know how suit was play CivII... This is bullshit. You're underestimating me, or so it seems. Some flamers here would consider this an insult, if happened with them....

But not me, I'm an optimist, and a peaceful guy! (well, not in RL... I mean, I'm peaceful, but not so optimistic... ))

	27-07-2005 01:02									#122
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=groupthink

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ry&va=dissemble

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...y&va=equivocate

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...onary&va=weasel

	27-07-2005 01:21									#124
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These will be my last of these entries, as I'm finding sequels to my original work dull at this point. Boris, obviously, could do this forever with boundless glee (indeed, I'm beginning to understand the Civ 4 / Boris similarities here!):

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ionary&va=apish
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ative&x=11&y=19
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...metic&x=21&y=15
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...avish&x=10&y=17
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ginal&x=25&y=17

	27-07-2005 01:49									#125
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=groupthink

so, who are you? the 14 year old guy who goes to the kindergarden to tell the children that santa does not exist? Or even better: that santa is just a cheap copy of the dutch sinterklaas and that the children shouldn't be happy with santa since he's not even much diffferent then sinterklaas.

of santa is not your cup of tea, don't dress like santa and don't go to meetings were santa is. it's that easy.

now go to the doom 3 boards and tell them that doom 3 is in fact wolfenstein 1.7 with fancy graphics.

	27-07-2005 01:54									#126
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 .....

You are such a tool mate, such a tool.

Thought you were leaving?

	27-07-2005 02:08									#127
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 These will be my last of these entries, as I'm finding sequels to my original work dull at this point. Boris, obviously, could do this forever with boundless glee (indeed, I'm beginning to understand the Civ 4 / Boris similarities here!): http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ionary&va=apish http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ative&x=11&y=19 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...metic&x=21&y=15 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...avish&x=10&y=17 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictiona...ginal&x=25&y=17

That last one especially describes you

	27-07-2005 02:19									#128
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what was this thread about

	27-07-2005 02:51									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Hmm... But you have a problem seeing what I meant with this little joke. What I'm saying is: It's a matter of opinion. Civ III had a huge impact... for me, and a LOT of big posters here. I can't assume that Civ III is a fiasco because you said so. It's not what my experience tells me. And this is not because I am incapable to know how suit was play CivII... This is bullshit. You're underestimating me, or so it seems. Some flamers here would consider this an insult, if happened with them.... But not me, I'm an optimist, and a peaceful guy! (well, not in RL... I mean, I'm peaceful, but not so optimistic... ))

It wasn't a fiasco because I said it was. I can't be underestimating you because I haven't made up my mind what I think of you yet.

I would say losing half your team and having to restart development of a game without pushing back the release date is a fiasco. It has nothing to do with you or your opinion of the game.

	27-07-2005 03:07									#130
	Inflate your Upload Space

Actually, I thought Civ3 turned out pretty well, considering all the trouble Firaxis went through with their personel at the time. From an internal point of view, it may have been a fiasco. But from a customer point of view, Civ3 itself was about what you'd expect out of the industry. It didn't come with the originally promised MP, but it was playable. At least, mostly.

For fiasco, reference MoO3. Now, that was a fiasco.

	27-07-2005 05:09									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th It wasn't a fiasco because I said it was. I can't be underestimating you because I haven't made up my mind what I think of you yet. I would say losing half your team and having to restart development of a game without pushing back the release date is a fiasco. It has nothing to do with you or your opinion of the game.

No problem with that. But when you say this...

quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th If your first taste of Civ was Civ3, then I don't expect you to fully grasp what people mean by "Civ3 fiasco."

I'm not a moron playing Civ III because I don't know any better

It's perfectly possible to me understand why you and other guys consider Civ III a fiasco.
But I can't agree for many reasons, including how profitable this franchise is. And because, after all, “fiasco” means “a complete failure”.
Civ III gave me frequently (I should say “always” ) that comfortable, sweet and familiar “one more turn” feeling. This is not a complete failure.

I'm still playing Civ III now, and I thinking about re-install Civ II… After all that discussion, I’m willing to play it again.

	27-07-2005 05:32									#132
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Poor word choice on my part, I suppose. They had issues.

	27-07-2005 09:59									#133
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I'll sign your petition, but I don't think FIraxis cares one bit who signs it, or how many. Unless it was like.. 1000 people.

	27-07-2005 13:10									#134
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Despite the difficulties preceding its release, CivIII can not be called a failure, let alone a disaster. It actually has become a pretty good game, with its best patch being Play The World version 1.27f. Had Conquests just nerfed Industrious without introducing a new overpowered trait (Agricultural is more powerful than Industrious ever was), fixed the MP hardships and the city rank corruption exploit (RCP) and added some extended tools for scenario building, it would have been awesome. However, these changes would not have justified an expansion pack, but merely a final patch.

Seven additional civs and some new units of Conquests were nothing but fluff, and the scenarios nice but unnecessary, because scenarios should be the domain of the fan community.

	27-07-2005 13:49									#135
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy so, who are you? the 14 year old guy who goes to the kindergarden to tell the children that santa does not exist? Or even better: that santa is just a cheap copy of the dutch sinterklaas and that the children shouldn't be happy with santa since he's not even much diffferent then sinterklaas. of santa is not your cup of tea, don't dress like santa and don't go to meetings were santa is. it's that easy. now go to the doom 3 boards and tell them that doom 3 is in fact wolfenstein 1.7 with fancy graphics.

Dude, you´ve been here longer than I´ve been. You should know Yin by now... Frankly, I´m amazed he still upsets people other than n00bs (who hasn´t been Yined before)

	27-07-2005 14:18									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg (who hasn´t been Yined before)

You know you are HoF material when your user ID becomes a verb.

	27-07-2005 14:22									#137
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg Dude, you´ve been here longer than I´ve been. You should know Yin by now... Frankly, I´m amazed he still upsets people other than n00bs (who hasn´t been Yined before)

Maybe it disturbs me more because once I used to work side by side with yin.

	27-07-2005 14:30									#138
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, that explains it...

	27-07-2005 14:35									#139
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 You know you are HoF material when your user ID becomes a verb.

It takes more than HoF Of 67 people in the HoF only two has had this distinct honor AFAIK. DanS and now Yin (if it catches on )

	27-07-2005 14:52									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MarkG this poll was doomed from the start yin just wanted an excuse so he can say "i told you so" if something bad happens

well I for one would prefer to see a completed game - yeah yeah I said it before, and I will say it again, I do not sell a half pulled beer at my pub...

Yes. It's like getting two extra patches!

better to have a great game, then one that leaves you sitting outside on the bonnet of the car

struth, we are still playing C3C pbems of patch 1.15, and the never to be copmpleted 1.22

long live games that are in need of very very little patching

	27-07-2005 15:09									#141
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Your picture reminds me of my drive to work last night.

	27-07-2005 22:20									#142
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg It takes more than HoF Of 67 people in the HoF only two has had this distinct honor AFAIK. DanS and now Yin (if it catches on )

Don't forget Fez.

	27-07-2005 23:55									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Alex Don't forget Fez.

He's not in the HoF.

	28-07-2005 00:18									#144
	Put an end to popups!

Well, he should be.

	28-07-2005 01:52									#145
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hall of Shame is more like it

	28-07-2005 06:22									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg Dude, you´ve been here longer than I´ve been. You should know Yin by now... Frankly, I´m amazed he still upsets people other than n00bs (who hasn´t been Yined before)

This is hilarious. I'd be flattered if I didn't know how this is likely to turn out, but here it goes:

What does it mean to you to be "Yined"?

...readies himself...

	28-07-2005 06:38									#147
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I'm a new poster, and have not been Yined(?), but I do disagree entirely with the original post.

I just want to play. I don't really care if multiplayer doesn't work very well, or if Mali is in or not, or how far I can go by train in a single turn, or whether or not the graphics are merely window dressing, or even if athieism should be considered a religion.

I want to play Civ 4, and I want to play tomorrow, if possible.

It's impossible to release a perfect game, so why bother trying?

Just let me play.....for the love of God, PLEASE let me play ( tomorrow if possible, thanks firaxis)

	28-07-2005 07:00									#148
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To answer the original premise of this thread (and not get side-tracked with attacks on Yin...no matter how tempting... ), nobody here (except Firaxis employees) knows if adding 4 months to development time would truly improve the game or not. We don't know where they are in the development process. If by delaying the game they'd put out a better, less buggy version of Civ, then I'd say delay. Otherwise, no delay.

To summarize, the correct answer everyone should have chosen was:

	28-07-2005 07:26									#149
	Suffering from ads?

hahaha indeed

and the PR people would never allow the developers to tell us the truth on patch requirements that they know about already etc

	28-07-2005 20:17									#150
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Most of the patch requirements on CivIII were play balance issues not bugs

Balance issues are best picked up through extended testing by experienced players, which CivIII did not have. Civ IV on the other hand is being tested by the absentees from this board and so should be much better on first release.

Will it be better if they spend another 3 months testing it? Not noticeably - so don't delay the release