23-07-2005 22:30									#1
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quote: Shot man not connected to bombing A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed. A Scotland Yard statement said the shooting was a "tragedy" which was regretted by the Metropolitan Police. The man was shot dead after police followed him from a south London flat to Stockwell Tube station on Friday. Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus. The statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification. "We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005. "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets." The statement confirmed the man was followed by police from a block of flats that was under surveillance. His death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Arrests Two men are still being held at Paddington Green police station, central London, in connection with Thursday's attacks. The first man was arrested at around 1630 BST on Friday during a raid on a block of flats near to Oval and Stockwell Tube stations. Eyewitnesses said he was led away with a woman and child. The second man was arrested late on Friday night, also in the Stockwell area. Both are being held under anti-terrorism legislation which gives police 14 days before they have to bring charges. CCTV images Scotland Yard said they had been contacted by over 500 members of the public following the release of CCTV footage of four suspects. Detectives said they were hopeful of useful lines of inquiry coming from the calls and e-mails. Three devices found after the failed bombings were the same size and weight as those used in the suicide attacks of 7 July, which killed scores. The fourth was smaller, apparently contained in a plastic box. The same chemicals appear to have been used. They targeted Oval, Warren Street and Shepherd's Bush stations and a bus in Hackney. The Hammersmith and City line train was removed from Shepherd's Bush station on Saturday afternoon. Transport for London said it hoped to have trains running on the line from Paddington to Hammersmith on Saturday evening.

SATISFIED?!?!?!?!?

	23-07-2005 22:31									#2
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Darwin Award for him, then.

	23-07-2005 22:34									#3
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the following phrase was cut form the statement on the last minute

quote: it's really fortunate, cause otherwise we'd have lost the excuse to torture the bastard before shooting him 5 times

	23-07-2005 22:35									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Darwin Award for him, then.

Precisely.

It really doesn't change anything, the way he presented himself he was asking for 5 bullets to the head given the recent history in The Tube.

	23-07-2005 22:35									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the following phrase was cut form the statement on the last minute quote: it's really fortunate, cause otherwise we'd have lost the excuse to torture the bastard before shooting him 5 times

That's original -- a Greek making a comment about torturing and other third-world judicial techniques. You're perhaps a bit too familiar with those.

	23-07-2005 22:36									#6
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In the current climate, if I were a slightly darker skin colour and a bunch of men started chasing me, police or not, armed or otherwise, I'd damn well run away too.

I could maybe understand the "well done to the brave police" mindset if they actually fired on him as he was running. But after he'd fallen and wasn't going anywhere? We have a word for that, six letters, begins with M.

	23-07-2005 22:38									#7
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As usual, Asher has it.

	23-07-2005 22:38									#8
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quote: I could maybe understand the "well done to the brave police" mindset if they actually fired on him as he was running. But after he'd fallen and wasn't going anywhere?

And presumably was a bomber?

	23-07-2005 22:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie I could maybe understand the "well done to the brave police" mindset if they actually fired on him as he was running. But after he'd fallen and wasn't going anywhere? We have a word for that, six letters, begins with M.

You would seriously fire at somebody from afar you had reason to believe was strapped head to toe in explosives?

You would be a nominee for a Darwin Award, I'd expect.

	23-07-2005 22:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie We have a word for that, six letters, begins with M.

they called it "deadly injury" on tv today....

	23-07-2005 22:49									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You would seriously fire at somebody from afar you had reason to believe was strapped head to toe in explosives?

Additionally, I wouldn't start shooting at the guy from a distance because you don't empty a gun in a public place full of people unless you can guarantee you won't miss.

	23-07-2005 22:55									#12
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quote: "I saw an Asian guy. He ran on to the train, he was hotly pursued by three plain clothes officers, one of them was wielding a black handgun. "He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706913.stm

	23-07-2005 22:55									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You would seriously fire at somebody from afar you had reason to believe was strapped head to toe in explosives? You would be a nominee for a Darwin Award, I'd expect.

If they're military explosives (like the ones used in the Tube), wouldn't they probably not unstable enough to be detonated by a bullet? Someone with military experience should let us know....

	23-07-2005 22:55									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: I could maybe understand the "well done to the brave police" mindset if they actually fired on him as he was running. But after he'd fallen and wasn't going anywhere? And presumably was a bomber?

So the police can shoot on sight anyone they "presume" to be a bomber?



And to think that I actually thought their actions where justified, after the initial reports where expanded apon. They made it sound like they had been following the man from his home where he'd been making bombs or whatever, and where positive that he was involved with the bombings, and on his way to blow himself up.

Apparenlt not, though. Oops.

	23-07-2005 22:55									#15
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quote: It really doesn't change anything, the way he presented himself he was asking for 5 bullets to the head given the recent history in The Tube.

New tactic to get to become a martyr? This will get them much more volunteers than blowing stuff up.

	23-07-2005 22:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd So the police can shoot on sight anyone they "presume" to be a bomber?

If that's a reasonable presumption, yes!

	23-07-2005 23:02									#17
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these people do not just want to be martyrs. if that was their case, they would be burning themselves up or stuff like that. their first target is to execute the goals of their group, which is to kill as many people as possible...

	23-07-2005 23:05									#18
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Extra judicial killings of innocents? I wonder what Ken Livingstone has to say.

	23-07-2005 23:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: "I saw an Asian guy. He ran on to the train, he was hotly pursued by three plain clothes officers, one of them was wielding a black handgun. "He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706913.stm

If they thought the guy had explosives on him, pushing him to the ground (and then shooting him in the head, so as to not trigger the explosives) is a sound precaution.

	23-07-2005 23:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If that's a reasonable presumption, yes!

I don't know about you, but personally, I would like the police and counter-terror officers to be acting on a basis of investigation rather than presumption.


I don't want to live in a society where police can tackle and execute anyone they don't like the looks of. As I said before, Britain is a scary place.

	23-07-2005 23:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I don't know about you, but personally, I would like the police and counter-terror officers to be acting on a basis of investigation rather than presumption. I don't want to live in a society where police can tackle and execute anyone they don't like the looks of. As I said before, Britain is a scary place.

Nice idea, and I agree.

Though, I also think that the police should react when nessecary as in this case. If the jerk hadn't done what he did he would be alive today.

	23-07-2005 23:13									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You would seriously fire at somebody from afar you had reason to believe was strapped head to toe in explosives?

Oh, right, yes. The police shouldn't shoot at people they suspect might have bombs on them- but once they know they're clean and no danger to anyone, then it's fine for them to unload into them.

Edit: Verto at least makes the reasoning behind shooting him repeatedly in the head a bit less nonsensical.

	23-07-2005 23:13									#23
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No wonder they don't let British cops carry guns.

	23-07-2005 23:14									#24
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And why couldn't they shoot him in the leg or shoulder? Most cops are trained to shoot to maim, not kill.

	23-07-2005 23:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I don't know about you, but personally, I would like the police and counter-terror officers to be acting on a basis of investigation rather than presumption.

I agree. When they think someone running into a subway has a bomb, they should defer to a committee.

	23-07-2005 23:15									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Verto If they thought the guy had explosives on him, pushing him to the ground (and then shooting him in the head, so as to not trigger the explosives) is a sound precaution.

That would be a justifiable precaution... if the man was actually involved in the bombings in some way. But apparently he was completely unconnected. The police would need to of had a reason to believe he had explosives on him, but apparently no such reason exists - either they where incompetant in their investigation, or reckless in their pursuit.

	23-07-2005 23:16									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Verto If they thought the guy had explosives on him, pushing him to the ground (and then shooting him in the head, so as to not trigger the explosives) is a sound precaution.

If they were truly worried about not setting off explosives, they probably wouldn't be shooting at him.

	23-07-2005 23:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn And why couldn't they shoot him in the leg or shoulder? Most cops are trained to shoot to maim, not kill.

Because they thought he had a bomb.

	23-07-2005 23:18									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Because they thought he had a bomb.

And sending bullets flying in the direction of what could potentially be a live bomb makes perfect sense.

Think.

	23-07-2005 23:21									#30
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I would assume by the time they had him on the ground they'd worked out he was no threat, which is why executing him is okay, silly.