01-09-2005 03:09									#151
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quote: My vote is that any team that exceeds 24 hours from now on is skipped. In the event of a mod not being around, the game is held until one can be found to enforce the skipping. Even if the team manages to play after the 24 hours, the team they send to holds the save, the mod skips it, and play resumes.

Desperate times demand desperate measures...I agree.

quote: Any team that has their turn skipped 3 tumes is Ctrl + Qd. For Euphorica, this applies to the very next time they run late.

This I disagree with. What If we miss the next two turns, but then, right at the end of the game, we miss a third turn? We get eliminated then?

What I suggest is this: If any team has their turn skipped 3 times out of any 7 consecutive turns, their civ is eliminated from the game.

	01-09-2005 03:18									#152
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That is a good ammendment, I agree.

Euphorica are still on their final warning, late again = ctrl+Q

	01-09-2005 05:56									#153
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Moonbars, The fact is that your team benefits greatly if the game is reset to having the Bards turn skipped. I would consider it an exploit.

What hypocrisy from the master of treachery

	01-09-2005 07:33									#154
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This certainly is like mirror ball - shine the light and it sends relections in many directions.

	01-09-2005 14:33									#155
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The save was sent to LB on the 24hour mark. I have asked that they keep it for the full 24 hours as well, whilst we continue to clarify exactly what rules we are playing under.

Latest proposal that has support of (I believe) DR, AM and LB:

quote: Any team that exceeds 24 hours from now on is skipped. In the event of a mod not being around, the game is held until one can be found to enforce the skipping. Even if the team manages to play after the 24 hours, the team they send too holds the save, the mod skips the tardy team, and play resumes. Any team that has their turn skipped 3 times in seven turns is removed from the game with Ctrl + Q

I propose, in a change from my previous stance, that this rule apply form this turn onwards.

If representavies from Horde, Babylon and Euphorica could make their feelings known.. Babylon I believe support the 24 hour rule, and Horde have had posters mainly in favour.

	01-09-2005 14:49									#156
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I have an additional proposal. Our admins are rarely seen around these forums lately. Perhaps we can ask someone else, like Rommel who is here more often, to take over as admin so we can have the 24 hour enforced by skipping.

Rommel is doing an excellent job in skipping those who exceed their time in Iron Civver.

	01-09-2005 15:00									#157
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I would suport that addition as well

Oh God, I'm agreeing with Ljube...

	01-09-2005 15:02									#158
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ah, porgress

	01-09-2005 16:06									#159
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Changing rules mid game is a difficult matter as teams can never claim to be completely objective.

Please note that from the start it was understood that if a team was in a serious situation (eg fighting for survival) that they would be allowed additional time. Perhaps certain teams are going to far with this but the situation is sometimes quite complicated.

However if a team is to all intents and purposes "out of the game" it would be better if that team were to retire or be retired gracefully than continue to use up time.

I do understand this situation wrt to "the Bards" but please try to see it from their point of view. Even if they are stalling repeatedly, (which you can't be certain they are) remember the situation they are in, which may be quite heartwrenching and desparate. Then perhaps instead of calling for thier heads have some understanding. Their situation will not be a permenant thing.

You wouldn't want to look back on the game and only recall moaning and bickering about time.

In short, yeah Babylon have perhaps gone too far, and it pisses everyone off and everyone is pissed but acknowledge the situation they're in, which won't last forever and remember that for the majority of the game they played very fast.

	01-09-2005 16:10									#160
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quote: In short, yeah Babylon have perhaps gone too far, and it pisses everyone off and everyone is pissed but acknowledge the situation they're in, which won't last forever and remember that for the majority of the game they played very fast.

Ahem, OPD, it is Euphorica that everyone is piised off at, Babylon are OK...

	01-09-2005 16:11									#161
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Changing rules mid game is a difficult matter as teams can never claim to be completely objective. Please note that from the start it was understood that if a team was in a serious situation (eg fighting for survival) that they would be allowed additional time. Perhaps certain teams are going to far with this but the situation is sometimes quite complicated........

	01-09-2005 16:13									#162
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Changing rules mid game is a difficult matter as teams can never claim to be completely objective. Please note that from the start it was understood that if a team was in a serious situation (eg fighting for survival) that they would be allowed additional time. Perhaps certain teams are going to far with this but the situation is sometimes quite complicated. However if a team is to all intents and purposes "out of the game" it would be better if that team were to retire or be retired gracefully than continue to use up time. I do understand this situation wrt to "the Bards" but please try to see it from their point of view. Even if they are stalling repeatedly, (which you can't be certain they are) remember the situation they are in, which may be quite heartwrenching and desparate. Then perhaps instead of calling for thier heads have some understanding. Their situation will not be a permenant thing. You wouldn't want to look back on the game and only recall moaning and bickering about time. In short, yeah Babylon have perhaps gone too far, and it pisses everyone off and everyone is pissed but acknowledge the situation they're in, which won't last forever and remember that for the majority of the game they played very fast.

Could be an insight

	01-09-2005 16:24									#163
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Changing rules mid game is a difficult matter as teams can never claim to be completely objective. Please note that from the start it was understood that if a team was in a serious situation (eg fighting for survival) that they would be allowed additional time. Perhaps certain teams are going to far with this but the situation is sometimes quite complicated.

Too objective, nobody is in a postion to judge if a team is delaying playing for game reasons, or for schedule / rl reasons. I do not remember any get-out cluases for teams that decided they needed more time.

The rules are the rules - they should be enforced, and that means that Euphorica are lucky the last 7 turns they've played have not been skipped.

It is silly that the rules can be ignored completely whenever a team announces they are "having difficulty"

	01-09-2005 16:25									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot

Paddy,

Why now are you in favour of letting teams take as long as they decide they want to play their turn? this is a bit of a u-turn, no?

	01-09-2005 17:00									#165
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I dont think Paddy is in favour of that at all, hes merely showing appreciation for OPD's voice of reason !

All the Horde are very frustrated at the slow pace of this game, as I said yesterday !

Along with my assertion that holding the save for 24 hours just because you can when youve already played is just as big a pain in the ass as what the bards stand accused of, and now your encouraging the next team to be as petty.

Last edited by ChrisiusMaximus on 01-09-2005 at 17:07

	01-09-2005 17:18									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Paddy, Why now are you in favour of letting teams take as long as they decide they want to play their turn? this is a bit of a u-turn, no?

really... not from me at all. My stance on these matters continues, a team has 24 hours, so play the save In this I often have dealt with time management on the saves. ie: emailing the teams prior to see how the save is going, and when it would be moved along. Also I have many many posts in these very threads.

You claimed elsewhere that I did not push Snoopy this turn, and you are right. He told us that this was the "most crutial" turn for his team, I agreed. I challenge you to do a full audit of every turn that has run over by any team, I dare say you will find I have not commented every time.

I have already told your team captain that if you can get OPD to go back and remove the Bards as at last turn, then the Horde will move along with that.

I do not like the process that you have used here, waiting till you got the save to have your spit, and then you held it till the last minute, but you were authorized by your team captain to do the save etc, and you stayed to the letter of the rule.

My agreement with OPD here is that teams play the save asap, up to initially 12 hours, and then later 24 hours. This was the agreement of all team captains.

The team captains also agreed that teams would be allowed to go over the 12 hour initial, the later 24 hour, time frame, as long as they notified all teams in the appropriate manner, and had a reason.

Thus the "save game threads" were started.

The goal of going over the time frame was to cover many things, war being one of them, especially when that team calls and states this is their "most crutial" turn. Real life (whatever that is ) issues were also part of this. There are many things that have been used to go over the 24 hours.

Yes the bards have pushed the envelope, as to I believe E_T did a few weeks back. As to the Bards, they leaving the game very soon.

It was also agreed that the admins would step in and skip a team if they went over 24 hours. I understand that OPD does not like this, yet so to that was all part of the agreement.

	01-09-2005 20:47									#167
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Along with my assertion that holding the save for 24 hours just because you can when youve already played is just as big a pain in the ass as what the bards stand accused of, and now your encouraging the next team to be as petty.

it isn't a matter of being petty, it's a matter of trying to determine what rules we are playing by, and making sure we can all agree and enforce them moving forward - inter-team polictics dont enter into it for me. I am trying to build a consensus and more forward. I think our goals are the same Chris - we both want the game to move quickly.

	01-09-2005 21:04									#168
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Our goal may be similar but your method is ridiculous, as you are simply creating a delay by holding the save for 24 hours just because you can.

Im not overly concerned as you did send the turn on time as per the 24 hour rule, however Im strongly opposed to your holding the turn in this way and to your encouraging the next team to do so.

It is simply ridiculous !

If you just play your turn and it gets moved along as fast as possible, you are still able to have your dicussion here, holding the turn does not change that fact.

What is the worst thing that could have happened had you sent the turn yesterday as indeed you could have done ? the answer is it would have reached the offending team sooner !

What would of been a problem with that ? nothing as whatever action it is decided to take would have simply taken place sooner, rather then potentially 48 hours later due to your insistance on standing on your soap box and holding the save ! and LB too if 1889 follows your advice.

Of cause this delay will increase incrementally with every team who decides to jump on your campaign wagon and also hold the save for 24 hours, just to make there point too.

So if AM LB and Babylon join you we end up with a possible 96 hour delay just because you all felt like making a point.

I care not whether bards get skipped for delaying the turns, or even if they are made to stand down.

Im not in any way roleplaying here Moonbars ! so Please no more of your twists.

	01-09-2005 21:34									#169
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The idea behind taking as long as possible was so that the save did not get back to Euphorica before we'd decided exactly what the rules where and how they were to be enforced. AM would not in any event have played the save, if they had got it, until Babylon had posted the battle report this morning, so there not really been a delay.

If the save had reached them before we'd agreed the course for the future, then the same things that's happened with thier last several turns would have happened again - another 3 day hold for no good reason.

You say that you don't see why the other teams should be able to make a point - bear in mind that 3 of the 6 teams fully support my proposal, and the hold, so we actually have a democratic majority - with the Horde undecided or undeclared either way and Euphorica and babylon silient.

Thank you for posting in a constructive manner Chris. I have never set out to twist any words, I am sorry you think that I have.

	02-09-2005 07:07									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Ahem, OPD, it is Euphorica that everyone is piised off at, Babylon are OK...

	02-09-2005 10:53									#171
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Please note that from the start it was understood that if a team was in a serious situation (eg fighting for survival) that they would be allowed additional time. Perhaps certain teams are going to far with this but the situation is sometimes quite complicated.

Lost Boys are at war as well and need to wait for a reply to an email.

	02-09-2005 14:28									#172
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quote: Originally posted by 1889 Lost Boys are at war as well and need to wait for a reply to an email.

as if

boring news this

edited as requested by Paddy: Pad said you are not a coward that I called you. He asked that I not flame you, and does not want me to start a flame war here.

1889, my unhappiness is that you seem to be playing moonbars game.

	02-09-2005 14:56									#173
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Why shouldn't 1889 take 3 days to play? it's OK for Euphorica.

I am not playing any games here at all, I want a fast moving properly enforced time limit rule - where all teams are equal. I don't want one or two teams taking a week to play whenever they decide they need to have long-drawn out disucssions. that's essentially cheating.

Again, we need to decide now if we are going to enforce the 24 hour rule or not. all those in favour, raise your hands..

	02-09-2005 15:00									#174
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I read that it was decided before game started, that the many game admins need to do their part. Why new rules? And what war, with the Horde, good let his force attack us soon.

	02-09-2005 15:28									#175
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Yes Ruby - but those rules are not being enforced. we all need to re-affirm them. Again I call for all those in favour of skipping a team that goes over 24 hours to raise there hands..

	02-09-2005 15:33									#176
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Does each player get a vote, or each team?

	02-09-2005 17:01									#177
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1889, send the save

	02-09-2005 18:16									#178
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Each team. Otherwise Orm, 1889 and I only get 3 votes, and BOH get how many?

	02-09-2005 18:19									#179
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17 to 28 so individual best

	02-09-2005 19:47									#180
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Team captains voted on the original rules - the precident is set.