30-08-2005 14:39									#121
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No it was not snoopy369 - you know this. You should have had 7 of your last turns skipped. You took almost 3 days there.

	30-08-2005 14:48									#122
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Snoopy. The rules say that each team has 24 hours to play the save, war or no war.

If the majority of teams wish to have the amount of time each team - even those not actively engaged in war - recieves, then I will not be bothered in the slightest if that time limit is not breached

But the time limit has been breached. And we have penalties for those that brake the rules.

So next time the save goes unplayed for 24 hours, skip that teams turn, with the only exceptions being illness.

If people keep on braking the time limit, I am just not going to bother playing this game. I have plenty of other things I can do with my time right now.

	31-08-2005 15:17									#123
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DR will be holding the save until such time as a Mod makes a decision on my call for Euphorica to be removed from the game for cheating over turn times.

This latest, and likely the earlier, instances had NOTHING to do with Euphorica not having time to play, they were rather plotting and scheming. Fine if you do it within 24 hours, essentially cheating if you do it over 60 hours.

Last edited by Moonbars on 31-08-2005 at 16:05

	31-08-2005 16:39									#124
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So yet more delays while we all wait for you to complete your crusade !

	31-08-2005 16:44									#125
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Indeed.

Why not, Euphorica can take 3 days when they have things to discuss, I can take as long as I like to send the save that I have just this minute finished playing, whilst I contact the Admins to get a decision on:

a) Skipping EUphorica's last turn
b) Removing their civ from the game

	31-08-2005 16:48									#126
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Why should you take 3 days thats absolute hypocrisy and you know it !

That makes you as bad period

And do you have a majority of the players of this game that back your rather OTT course of action ?

	31-08-2005 16:56									#127
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Chris, you are not reading my post. It didn't say we'd take 3 days, I said that the save would be held until a mod made a decision - it might be more than 3 days.

What I am saying is why should Euphorica be allowed to break the rules again and again, when it suits them? We should take a pause here and take stock.

I am holding the save (please note we are still very much UNDER 24 hours so far, have had the save for 4 hours.) for concerns over the conduct of another team - not to cheat the deadline as Euphorica did. I find it interesting the Horde picks now to comment - no comment from you to my earlier calls to have Euphorica skipped, despite lots of posts from Paddy on previous occasions when Euphorica was late. No wonder, it was your team they were holding the save for whilst they plotted. So do not speak of hypocracy Chris, for it is you who is being that, although you may not have all the facts, so it is hard to tell what your motives for posting here are.

You comments are not really helping, all you have done is chimed in and made raised the heat a little. Post constructivly and calmly, or dont post.

Last edited by Moonbars on 31-08-2005 at 17:04

	31-08-2005 17:02									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Indeed. Why not, Euphorica can take 3 days when they have things to discuss, I can take as long as I like to send the save that I have just this minute finished playing, whilst I contact the Admins to get a decision on: a) Skipping EUphorica's last turn b) Removing their civ from the game

Moonbars, to skip their last turn now certainly is an most strange option to now be stating. I am not sure you have the right to ask such now that two teams has played already.

As to holding the save, what reasons are you giving? are you sick? have you too much work on for 72 hours suddenly?

Also is it that no one on your team will be playing civ through this time?

Moonbars, you have the save, lets play on

edit: Moonbars, read through this thread, I often call for the turn to be moved on. So you chill, and play the save.

	31-08-2005 17:03									#129
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Yak yak yak moonbars is that all you can do ?

just get on and play the save within your 24 hours OK !!!


Oh yeah BTW A reason Ive said little recently is I see speaking to some of you a complete waste of time

	31-08-2005 17:09									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot Moonbars, to skip their last turn now certainly is an most strange option to now be stating. I am not sure you have the right to ask such now that two teams has played already.

You think DR's self interest calls for this. I say your self interest calls for it not to happen. You have been very vocal on the turn-skip issue, until, suddenly, Euphorica are talknig to your team - you are a party to their delay.

Euphorica have been cheating, by saying they cannot play the save whilst they actually are just plotting, on this latest instance with your team.

We've only had the save 4 hours, and it has been played and is ready to be sent - but we will be holding the save until this is discussed and a proper set of rules to be followed from now on is decided upon, and any possible measure taken to punich Euphorica for their cheating has been put in place.

	31-08-2005 17:11									#131
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Yak yak yak moonbars is that all you can do ?

More Role playing, or you just being childish now?

	31-08-2005 17:12									#132
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Yet more hot wind how boring

	31-08-2005 17:14									#133
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have you read the time limit thread that was agreed on at the beginning of the game?

	31-08-2005 17:14									#134
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Id say you would be an expert at the game twister Moonbars because your an expert at twisting the words of the people.

This BS that you state about the Horde somehow cheating, well if you can prove this then fine, but I will enjoy watching you embarass yourself trying !

	31-08-2005 17:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot have you read the time limit thread that was agreed on at the beginning of the game?

Yes - but it seems to be OK to ignore this when it suits a team.

I'll be holding this save until all parties agree to obey the agreed upon rules.

	31-08-2005 17:28									#136
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Id say you would be an expert at the game twister Moonbars because your an expert at twisting the words of the people. This BS that you state about the Horde somehow cheating, well if you can prove this then fine, but I will enjoy watching you embarass yourself trying !

Chris,

Again you have not read my posts - I have made no claim that your team has cheated. Please, can you try and read my posts before you go flying off the handle? Again I ask you only to post if it is constructive and calm - your heated dialogue is not neccessary, is spoiling the atmosphere and I find it a little bit insulting to be honest Chris.

	31-08-2005 17:28									#137
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You are making up your own rules to suit yourself matey.

We all know Euphorica has been delaying saves do you think you have special claim over this frustration ?

You are bound by the rules to send the save within 24 hours period.

No excuses, unless you are of the same stuff as the Bards!

	31-08-2005 17:29									#138
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I aint flying anywhere Pal just having my words twisted by the twister man as usual, mate read your own posts !

	31-08-2005 17:31									#139
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus You are making up your own rules to suit yourself matey. We all know Euphorica has been delaying saves do you think you have special claim over this frustration ? You are bound by the rules to send the save within 24 hours period. No excuses, unless you are of the same stuff as the Bards!

No, I do not think I am the only person who is affected. All I am trying to do is get agreement that from this turn on, as it appears there is no support for taking punitive actions retrospectivly, the rules will be followed and nobody will hold the save for their own team's gain.

I am not sure what you refer to when you say I am making up rules?

	31-08-2005 17:33									#140
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I aint interested in having this conversation with you, but if you delay the turn over 24 hours i will be speaking to the admin myself to get your turn skipped

	31-08-2005 17:49									#141
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If you are not interested in talking to me, why did you reply to my post.

	31-08-2005 17:58									#142
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Did you send the save

	31-08-2005 19:49									#143
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I also think Euphorica’s delays are purposeful and not in any way the result of schedule problems or unforeseen circumstance, I PM’ed some of you about this a few weeks ago. I hope a mod will remove them and we can get back to a rapid pace that may yet save this game.

I believe that is why their last turn will need to be skipped. Mods have been hard to get a hold of so if one of them responds they should replay Euphorica and retire other wise we’ll have to go through this again in a few days.

	31-08-2005 20:03									#144
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@ Paddy - I sent the save that I played to Aqua, who can decide what he wants to do with it when he reads his email.

I considered sending the save to the Mods, and asking them to visit this thread and make a verdict, and at that point either forward my played save to the LB's, or go back and skip or retire Euphorica. I did not do this due to time constraints, I needed to get to work.. I will pick this unhappy thread up again when I get back from work at 11pm GMT. (still under 13 hoursfrom when DR got the save..)

	31-08-2005 20:16									#145
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Moonbars, The fact is that your team benefits greatly if the game is reset to having the Bards turn skipped. I would consider it an exploit. This conversation should have happened before they played and when they were overdue. The events have now happened and they are now part of the History of this game. We cannot, or at least should not rewrite history in a way that will favour one team.

If the mods decide to retire the Bards next time they are due to play the save, then so be it. But to do so before they played their last turn is simply not fair to those who have played since and an exploit for those who would gain by it.

So, I agree we should contact the mods for a decision...that is why we have them...To solve disputes. However, I can in no way support a rewriting of history that is now known by so many.

Thanks for your concern over game speed. It is an issue that obviously many of us share. Now, let's get this game rolling again! Please send the save forthwith. Thanks.

	31-08-2005 22:01									#146
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the conversation did take place before and during, as you would see if you read the above (such as my post where I quote all the times snoopy has delayed the save)

I dont mind if the mods either skip the bards last turn, skip there next turn as a punishment, retire them from last turn, or retire them from their next turn - but SOME action must be taken, and before DR plays on I want to know what the rules are, and what will happen if they are broken.

You say my team would benefit from the last turn being skipped - I say your team would benefit it it isn't. Neither of us is in a non-biased position to decide, that should be left to the absent OPD.

	01-09-2005 00:07									#147
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I would, my personal opinion, call for the Moderators to give Team Euphoricans/Bards, a final ultimatum, as they ostensibly have abused the 24 hour rule more as a rule of thumb than as an exception confirming the rule. Nothing is as destructive to a multiteam demogame than a lagging, hesitant, ineffective and/or unmotivated turnplayer.

I understand that the Bards are singing their very last song, to the Desolation wardrums and Horde trumpets, and that they would likely end up where Kurt Cobain, Elvis and Jimi Hendrix went. The Bards had their heydays, but has now come to an end. We are now talking formalities in
terms of processing the termination and legacy, and epitaph if there are any.

The elimination of the Bards would speed up the game, which is quite welcome to the ones not dragging their feet. Therefore, I would recommend the moderators to give the serial-delaying Bards a terminal, final and decisive ultimatum, and if they do not go out gloriously with blazing guns, then pass into posterity as a footnote on poor netiquette and sportsmanship, which would not be in the interest of such a fiery and entertaining team that have given the world such a show.

So please pass on a terminal ultimatum and get the game going, for the good of everyone.

	01-09-2005 01:03									#148
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I agree with you statements Omnistar. My only concern is that there have been final ultimatums in the past, I think - I have not read back to check, and they've ignored them.

	01-09-2005 01:24									#149
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I think the five other teams should agree on a zero tolerance ultimatum leading to an automatic penalty, that would serve as sufficient deterrance and motivation for the bards.
Now the five teams need to agree on the formulation and terms of that terminal, not only final, but terminal ultimatum.

	01-09-2005 03:04									#150
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This I can agree with.

I will not send the save until this discussion has taken place, if I do we'll simply end up back waiting for three days whilst Euphorica "debate" what to do next, and they get away with it again.

The Lost Boys, Desolation Row and perhaps AM have stated in this thread that they would be happy to see measures taken against Euphorica. Beta of Babylon recently posted that his agreed with and would stick to the 24 hour rule, so that leaves only the Horde to make a decidion either way on what they want to happen to teams that exceed the 24 hour rule.

My vote is that any team that exceeds 24 hours from now on is skipped. In the event of a mod not being around, the game is held until one can be found to enforce the skipping. Even if the team manages to play after the 24 hours, the team they send to holds the save, the mod skips it, and play resumes.

Any team that has their turn skipped 3 tumes is Ctrl + Qd. For Euphorica, this applies to the very next time they run late.