06-08-2005 04:28									#91
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Dis, from a Civ point of view, fresh water should be trivial at aqueduct tech. Some of our ancient civs did a great job aqueducting water vast distances.

	06-08-2005 05:39									#92
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Dis: I like the game. Maybe I was expecting to hate it, so when I actually liked it, perhaps the feeling was magnified. Still, you have to have an open mind about gaming to enjoy that sort of thing. Civ it's not!

	06-08-2005 13:12									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Odin My worst fears: 1. too much micromanagement (like having to move aroung 100 workers individually becaise the auto-worker AI is idiotic) 2. ICS 3. the AI civs marching through MY territory again, and again, and again 4. not enough diplomatic options

some of us like micomanaging workers...

though a system like in ctp2 wouldn't be too bad. I just felt it was poorly implemented in ctp2. I can't explain what was wrong exactly. But I just didn't like it.

	06-08-2005 13:13									#94
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Dis: I like the game. Maybe I was expecting to hate it, so when I actually liked it, perhaps the feeling was magnified. Still, you have to have an open mind about gaming to enjoy that sort of thing. Civ it's not!

it was fun for a little while, I just have no motivation to play it after the first time.

	06-08-2005 16:47									#95
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My worst fear for CivIV is the game crashes all the time

quote: Originally posted by Alex come on, simgolf is not a game THAT bad... it is mildly fun and entertaining for a while... i'd say for five minutes... or ten.

It was an ok game, but it did have some bugs (well, some peoeple called them features) that made the game annoying at some parts of the game

The game could have survived a longer time if they had included MP of some sort. Hot seat would be perfectly fine where you could start a tournament with a couple of buddies, or just a one on one...

	09-08-2005 04:13									#96
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In Civ4, a player should not HAVE to make 10-15 cities on a standard-sized map just to win the game on a decent difficulty level.

Ya ought to be able to win with Venice, and a few far-flung colonies like Rodos, Candia, and Corfu...now that would really be neat.

	09-08-2005 04:19									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Mace In Civ4, a player should not HAVE to make 10-15 cities on a standard-sized map just to win the game on a decent difficulty level. Ya ought to be able to win with Venice, and a few far-flung colonies like Rodos, Candia, and Corfu...now that would really be neat.

	09-08-2005 05:42									#98
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My worst fear is that Civ 4's modding capabilities don't go far enough to enable the removal of whatever worst fears there are out there.
I hope for a modding flexibility that (after getting used to the tools) lets experienced modders even change the gameplay or add depth to features like combat or diplomacy to any demanded extent.
I don't believe Firaxis or any other game company can release a game with such a complex topic to the satisfaction of all the aficionados right out of the box.
So the modding issue is by far the most important to me.
My ultimate dream is the possibility of modular or plug-in modding. So that you could customize your gameplay by including or excluding features.
For example choosing between several different economy models of different depth and impact or even different mechanics.
Or crime plug-ins for fighting the enemies of the state within your civ not only foreign countries's armies.

	09-08-2005 06:17									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Mace In Civ4, a player should not HAVE to make 10-15 cities on a standard-sized map just to win the game on a decent difficulty level. Ya ought to be able to win with Venice, and a few far-flung colonies like Rodos, Candia, and Corfu...now that would really be neat.

Suggest a mechanism that can be added to the game by which this can be made at all possible. Its a bit of a ridiculous wish in my opinion. 10-15 cities isn't even ICS.

	09-08-2005 06:28									#100
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As if Venice alone could win a world war

	09-08-2005 07:18									#101
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As if people never win 1CCs or 5CCs (not that I have ever tried such a thing).

	09-08-2005 14:18									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit As if Venice alone could win a world war

A courtesan or culture war. Or a shoplifting war- they could give back all that Byzantine loot.


Still I think it would make for a good scenario- Venice, the Hanseatic League, the Low Countries, Florence, Byzantium, the Fatimids and oh, .....Mali.

	09-08-2005 15:58									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe As if people never win 1CCs or 5CCs (not that I have ever tried such a thing).

That's not the point, IMHO. The target of Civ should be to let you build a Civilization in a way that's credible enough.
There are Science Fiction books about mutant with powerful mind that take control of the whole world. That could be an interesting scenario in extreme modding, but it's not Civ in its historical root.

It's funny, but not realistic, that a single empire can conquer all the world. Maybe today a nuclear powered country as USA can try to military conquer all the globe, but I don't think they can win, or at least win in a way not so bloody to put USA back a couple of centuries about life status, health, culture, etc.

They can influence the world (again, I'm using USA only as an example, please don't start flame wars pro/against USA, China and so on) on many levels: language, pop culture, scientific research, etc. and if Civ try to model this "alternative weapons" that's fine for me. Still would be nice to se in a Civ game that building a Switzerland civ or an European Union is possible without a Chinese o USA or ____ (put any Civ empire here) ____ feel the urge to burn them to the ground as the more efficient path to the victory.

Well, well, let's wait and see what Civ IV can bring to us for strategy.

	09-08-2005 20:23									#104
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World unification will probably happen one day, but it will likely happen as things have happened in the EU. That could be part of the "conquest" victory in Civ: uniting the world in a federation of nations (substantially under your influence, naturally).

	10-08-2005 04:04									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro Suggest a mechanism that can be added to the game by which this can be made at all possible. Its a bit of a ridiculous wish in my opinion. 10-15 cities isn't even ICS.

I cannot suggest any un-fun mechanism to allow this. Perhaps there is no solution other than to simply go for a cultural win in games where you have but , say, 1-5 cities.

And what in the world do you mean by, "ridiculous" wish? That is what every Civ player has wanted from the beginning of Civ. A Civ game that is as FLEXIBLE as it is fun. To focus on building a civilization, NOT necessarily an empire. Big distinction there.

If you want an empire, by all means do it. But it should not be a gameplay necessity for a non-cultural victory.

	10-08-2005 05:55									#106
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Without going the Colonisation route of having very specific resources, emphasis on trade, slow growth and high rewards for building up it can't be done without a radical overhaul of the game system.

(I wouldn't mind seeing a return to in-depth trading. Trade would be another method of spreading your culture.)

And the problem would remain that anything one city can do, 5 cities could do better.

	10-08-2005 12:39									#107
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It depends on what you consider a successful civilization. And how you want to define a victory.

Take a nation like switzerland. Very small. But most people consider them a success. Though personally I wouldn't say they are #1. You should not be able to win a game with a nation that small. That's my opinion. You have to do more than just provide a high standard of living for your people.

On the other hands, large civs should not necessarily automatically dominate all. I'd like to see smaller civs with high research rates. Take for example England. Not a large civ in actual history. But they conquered so much of the world. How exactly did they do this? One reason is technical superiority in their military equipment and techniques. As it is, this can't be represented well in civ3. And consequently, any island civs are hopelessly doomed.

	10-08-2005 15:14									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Dis On the other hands, large civs should not necessarily automatically dominate all. I'd like to see smaller civs with high research rates. Take for example England. Not a large civ in actual history. But they conquered so much of the world. How exactly did they do this? One reason is technical superiority in their military equipment and techniques. As it is, this can't be represented well in civ3. And consequently, any island civs are hopelessly doomed.

I disagree. I think it was through not oppressing the native peoples to the same degree as other imperial powers did and through building of economic ties and power. The British navy was a monster, but their land dominions were mostly held by "soft" power rather than a zerg rush of troops.

Trade power IS something that a small island nation could be given.

	10-08-2005 15:41									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro I disagree. I think it was through not oppressing the native peoples to the same degree as other imperial powers did and through building of economic ties and power. The British navy was a monster, but their land dominions were mostly held by "soft" power rather than a zerg rush of troops. Trade power IS something that a small island nation could be given.

Quite- the British government only became directly involved by degrees- the 1773 Regulating Act and then much more directly following the Indian Mutiny of 1857, when the obvious failings of the East India Company meant a more practical approach to the sub-continent was required.

But it all began with trade and a company...

Economic inducements and divide and rule (playing off individual rulers against each other helped too. Empress Victoria was supposedly very fond of her coterie of maharajahs and princes and nawabs.

	11-08-2005 21:41									#110
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Worst fear for civ4:

Mac port will be late, buggy, or too resource-intensive.

I'm still mildly pissed that none of the expansions run on Mac!

Arggh I gave up my PC to rid myself of the first person shooter addiction, only to be hooked by civ, and I don't want to go back to the PC!

	11-08-2005 21:44									#111
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Worst fear for cIV:

That it won't ship after all.

	11-08-2005 22:35									#112
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And there it is...that's the ultimate negative thought about Civ4.

	11-08-2005 22:47									#113
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Worst fear for cIV: That it won't ship after all.

Don't say something like that, you almost gave me a hearth attack

	12-08-2005 01:28									#114
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quote: Originally posted by diablovision Worst fear for civ4: Mac port will be late, buggy, or too resource-intensive. I'm still mildly pissed that none of the expansions run on Mac! Arggh I gave up my PC to rid myself of the first person shooter addiction, only to be hooked by civ, and I don't want to go back to the PC!

why do people insist on buying macs?

	12-08-2005 01:33									#115
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Better and more stable computers.

	12-08-2005 01:40									#116
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Why Macs?

Hmmm....let me count the reason.

1. The best combination of UNIX and desktop software that can be had. Having worked on / with UNIX for the past 7 years for what I do, it is powerful and useful.

2. Software quality. Apple has probably the best software support for core OS features and the update facility is simple and easy to use.

3. Usability. The fit and finish of Apple software is far more coherent and usable that in Linux or Windows (though I haven't used windows since Win2k back in the day).

4. Availability of office suites (Office X), and professional publishing / authoring / video applications.

5. Features. OS X is probably the most advanced OS out there, in terms of usability features, doodads, etc--without having been haphazardly thrown together into a big mishmash.

6. RISC. If you have to write any assembly code (which admittedly, I don't anymore) for high performance, it is damn nice to have it.

7. Stability. Some applications crash, but less than once a week. I haven't need to hard reboot the machine more than 5 times in the past two years--the OS is just solid.

But of course there are plenty of drawbacks, but I find that none of them matter enough to me to provide a compelling argument against.

Frankly, I don't mind either way whether you want to use a Mac, but those are my reasons.

	12-08-2005 01:48									#117
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My worst fear for this thread is that I'll have to read the rantings of Mac zealots thanks to Dis's post.

AAAAARGH, TOO LATE!

	12-08-2005 01:56									#118
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Worst fear for cIV: That it won't ship after all.

Exactly. Nothing can be worst than that!

	12-08-2005 02:36									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov My worst fear for this thread is that I'll have to read the rantings of Mac zealots thanks to Dis's post. AAAAARGH, TOO LATE!

Ack, it's ok, just as long as not of that ever happens in the OT, I'm fine with it.

	12-08-2005 02:46									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Mace Ya ought to be able to win with Venice, and a few far-flung colonies like Rodos, Candia, and Corfu...now that would really be neat.

You can do that in SMAC. But you are better off ICSing in it, due to traditional Civ tile/city usage.