12-08-2005 02:54									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think my worst fear would be that some people wouldn't be able to run Python, thus disabling them from modding Civ4.

	12-08-2005 03:08									#122
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Better and more stable computers.

mine never crashes since I started running Windows XP.

	12-08-2005 03:09									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov My worst fear for this thread is that I'll have to read the rantings of Mac zealots thanks to Dis's post. AAAAARGH, TOO LATE!

sorry, I couldn't resist. I think this thread has run it's course. But maybe not. There may still be some good posts to come. We'll see...

	12-08-2005 03:13									#124
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dis mine never crashes since I started running Windows XP.

Same here. Five computers (2 notebooks Dell and three workstations), all running XP pro AND civ III

	12-08-2005 03:15									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Humm. It seems that according to diablovision, the reason why to buy a Mac is that it isn't a Mac anymore.

	12-08-2005 03:25									#126
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Actually I do have games crash on me. I'm curious how often games crash on Mac users. Do Mac users have games that don't have any bugs? If so, then I might consider switching.

Civ3 has never been a problem for me. At least in terms of CTD problems. But other games such as Morrowind...

That may be a problem more with windows, than PC in general. Though they kind of go hand in hand. At least if you want to play games.

	12-08-2005 03:54									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't think it's worth to switch to Mac for gaming. There are tons of games never released for macs, and most that do get released have a delay.

	16-08-2005 01:24									#128
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Dis, all significant games have bugs. Just as all significant applications have bugs. Switching to the Mac just gives you a chance to have different bugs in your games then what the PC users get.

	16-08-2005 01:53									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Darkstar Dis, all significant games have bugs. Just as all significant applications have bugs. Switching to the Mac just gives you a chance to have different bugs in your games then what the PC users get.

Yes, there are bugs in software. It's not a divine law, but a compromise between quality and profitability.

Still, there are plattforms where a bug can collapse the whole system, others - more solid - where damages are limited to the offending code.

We also should consider how complex and difficult is a developing environment - ready and tested library, well managed system events, etc. Sometime a platform (e.g. Apple OS X, Nintendo) can do a better quality job than another, more famous and used one (e.g. MS Win, Sony PS2).

Support from developers is more a fact of available market than technical consideration, IMHO. Sometime this state of things is a pity.

	16-08-2005 02:34									#130
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My worst fear is with diplomacy.

From the diplomatic screens we saw, it seems that you can "trade anything for anything" like you could in SMAC or Civ3. When the demo showed a tech-trade being initiated, you could only haggle with techs and cash. When the demo switched to a resource-trade, you could only haggle with resources and cash.

I really hope it was a glitch in the demo, and not a feature. The diplomatic complexity was one of the best thing in SMAC and Civ3, and I really don't want a step back to Civ1&2

	16-08-2005 02:45									#131
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

We do a lot of multi-platform work around here. After a few years in that stew, trying to squeeze out support from OS vendors and their associated leeches, most of our devs turn into serious M$ owned people. Even the majority of our starting Apple and Linux devotees end up swapping religions. The fact is that its a lot easier to get support from the Evilest Empire then from any other commercial vendor we've ever dealt with.

From a serious business point of view, that's what matters. In business, everyone is evil, despite the spinning otherwise.

As for "some platforms are better then others"... not true. You can crush any OS with just a bug or two. There are only a few markets that have a significant mass of code created for it. Those markets bugs are better known because of that. More people using something, more bugs known. Even the tightest code has holes and bugs, and if you have enough people using that system, they'll expose them. Indeed, if enough money is sloshing through and OS, some people will chase that money, trying to find new holes and bugs to reach it.

That's a fact of life. It doesn't matter what the name on the OS is.

As far as apps go, games are the buggiest apps there are. Most don't do sequels and do not have significant life spans, so the code base only gets the one pass through and very little support to begin with. Madden has a lot less bugs in it after its 18 generations then Moon Commander or SMAC.

	16-08-2005 02:52									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor My worst fear is with diplomacy. From the diplomatic screens we saw, it seems that you can "trade anything for anything" like you could in SMAC or Civ3. When the demo showed a tech-trade being initiated, you could only haggle with techs and cash. When the demo switched to a resource-trade, you could only haggle with resources and cash. I really hope it was a glitch in the demo, and not a feature. The diplomatic complexity was one of the best thing in SMAC and Civ3, and I really don't want a step back to Civ1&2

Diplomacy was a huge problem in Civ3. You could sell your techs to the AIs for ALL of AI income. So you'd run at 100% tech rate, and get all the AI money through GPT deals. And you'd be able to sell them your World Map every few turns for gold.

On higher difficulties, you could just run 0% research and buy the techs until you were ready to start your own research. Besides, the Civ3 AIs never had any loyalty. You could buy them for an alliance, you could cheer them up with worthless gifts.

I'm, quite on the contrary, hoping that Civ4 diplomacy gets sufficiently changed - like the AI having loyalties, and actually thinking about what's good for themselves and not giving you all their money.

	16-08-2005 03:08									#133
	Increase the size of your Attachments

While reviewing an "old" video clip

the war elephants make nioses....

this will get irratating after a short while

	16-08-2005 03:11									#134
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Civ3 units also made sounds. And I don't think a 2005 game can come out without the option to turn sounds off.

	16-08-2005 03:23									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex While reviewing an "old" video clip the war elephants make nioses.... this will get irratating after a short while

noises

	16-08-2005 18:06									#136
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

that gav thorpe will somehow make the game suck.

	16-08-2005 22:01									#137
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My worst fear is that, on the diplomacy screen, the player wouldn't be able to trade borders .

I mean, in the reality, borders aren't defined only on a cultural basis. Sometimes states trade borders because having a little more or a little less territories serve their strategy.

For example, when the newly-born Italia gave Nice and Savoy to France, in the meantime they kept the Aost valley, although people there spoke French. But defending France without the Aost valley was much simpler. And defending Italia with the Aost valley was much simpler too.

So, it would be wonderful to be allowed to pass agreements on borders changes on the diplomatic board. But in the same time, not implementing this aspect of international relationships would greatly damage the whole game.

Controling a montain next to the border can make you win a war. It's nothing but fundamental.

	16-08-2005 23:49									#138
	Got spare money?

My worst fear is that game will have such good cd-copy protection, that I would be forced to have original always in drive.

And I don't want to have original in drive, since I don't want to scratch CD. Games are already too expensive where I live.

	17-08-2005 00:05									#139
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quote: Originally posted by player1 My worst fear is that game will have such good cd-copy protection, that I would be forced to have original always in drive. And I don't want to have original in drive, since I don't want to scratch CD. Games are already too expensive where I live.

i'll probably install the game, play right away, and not play another game for months, thus having no need to remove the CD at all.

	17-08-2005 00:13									#140
	Got spare money?

My Civ III CD has been in the drive for years

	17-08-2005 01:01									#141
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I rememer when I scratched Warlord3 CD, it was very painful for me to give up from the game. Not to mention that I could not find place to aquire it again.

	17-08-2005 01:13									#142
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quote: Originally posted by player1 My worst fear is that game will have such good cd-copy protection, that I would be forced to have original always in drive. And I don't want to have original in drive, since I don't want to scratch CD. Games are already too expensive where I live.

I just hope someone comes up with an unathorized no cd patch on a place called: **** **** world. The same kind of patch I used for civ3 in fact.

I never steal games (at least not games made this decade). But I prefer not to have a CD in the drive to play them.

	17-08-2005 01:19									#143
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quote: Originally posted by M. le Comte I mean, in the reality, borders aren't defined only on a cultural basis. Sometimes states trade borders because having a little more or a little less territories serve their strategy. For example, when the newly-born Italia gave Nice and Savoy to France, in the meantime they kept the Aost valley, although people there spoke French. But defending France without the Aost valley was much simpler. And defending Italia with the Aost valley was much simpler too.

love the idea...how would one draw the boundry for the AI to see?

	17-08-2005 03:58									#144
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Player1, your experience reminds me of the intense pain I feel at no longer being able to play People's General or Birth of the Federation, because my new computer doesn't seem to want to recognise the CD's .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	17-08-2005 09:11									#145
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Dis It depends on what you consider a successful civilization. And how you want to define a victory. Take a nation like switzerland. Very small. But most people consider them a success. Though personally I wouldn't say they are #1. You should not be able to win a game with a nation that small. That's my opinion. You have to do more than just provide a high standard of living for your people. On the other hands, large civs should not necessarily automatically dominate all. I'd like to see smaller civs with high research rates. Take for example England. Not a large civ in actual history. But they conquered so much of the world. How exactly did they do this? One reason is technical superiority in their military equipment and techniques. As it is, this can't be represented well in civ3. And consequently, any island civs are hopelessly doomed.

You could do something similar to what Europa Universalis does: the more territory you have (or cities in a hypothetical civ adaptation) the more expensive technology is (of course, it shoulden't be a 1 to 1 ratio or else large countries would be at a disadvantage, but the principle holds). So you can choose (or prehaps forced by starting conditions and neihbors) either to have a small empire with a few very rich cities that advances because it has few people to care for compared to it's income from it's rich tiles, or have a large empire that advances by economy of scale of it's huge number of tiles under production.

Edit: I was thinking, this might help with ICS!

	18-08-2005 22:38									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Odin So you can choose (or prehaps forced by starting conditions and neihbors) either to have a small empire with a few very rich cities that advances because it has few people to care for compared to it's income from it's rich tiles, or have a large empire that advances by economy of scale of it's huge number of tiles under production. Edit: I was thinking, this might help with ICS!

If something like that could be implemented, I agree I think it might help. Has potential anyway. So Europa Universalis does this?

	20-08-2005 03:38									#147
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My worse fear is that its will be released before its ready. I'd rather wait for a properly finished article than have a flawed bug ridden monstrosity instead.

	20-08-2005 04:23									#148
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thumbs up

	20-08-2005 08:20									#149
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by spartak My worse fear is that its will be released before its ready. I'd rather wait for a properly finished article than have a flawed bug ridden monstrosity instead.

Exactly.

And to add to that: people on these forums seem to forget that there are people out there without internet access who can't easily get regular patches. Yes they do exist. Why don't you ever hear from them? Ummm...

	20-08-2005 11:27									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Xorbon Why don't you ever hear from them? Ummm...

smoke signals have second hand effects ?