04-08-2005 19:03									#91
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quote: what about it exactly is a joke? The current govt was only formed a couple of months ago, and has a very difficult situation to deal with.

For starters,
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/i...3ministry.html?

	04-08-2005 19:05									#92
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara According to Scott Ritter,

RITTER: [...] The problem with disarming Iraq right now is that Iraq has failed across the board. There are major questions in chemical. Iraq has a VX program. VX is one of the most deadly substances on the face of the Earth. And we've uncovered this. They refuse to even address the issue.

We have major problems with stocks of chemical weapons and chemical agents that are unaccounted for. The entire biological program, which (unintelligible) horrible weapons, is a black hole, as Richard Butler says. Ballistic missiles -- there's absolute concern that they still retain the capability to deliver chemical and biological weapons through ballistic missiles that they haven't declared.

Iraq still poses a real and meaningful threat to its neighbors, and nothing the Security Council or the United States is doing currently will change this fact.

	04-08-2005 19:10									#93
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Patrokolos: I think AH is content to bash the decisions that others are making and will be very difficult to pin down on an opinion about what should be done positively.

What? you mean I have to clean up this mess for you? I never supported this war.

I'll say one thing though, the only good thing about Bush getting re-elected is he'll have to carry the can for the war. And so will Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice and the whole neo con gang. They won't be able to say things would have been different if Bush had got a second term.

Its kind of delicious to think ahead to when Bush leaves office to well deserved discredit. One little silver lining to all this misery.

	04-08-2005 19:16									#94
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quote: no thats not what I said.

Then take this chance to correct this...

quote: well it does actually because that creature in your avatar and others like him such as Rumsfeld have deliberately kept troops numbers down to keep casualties down

	04-08-2005 19:19									#95
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quote: Its kind of delicious to think ahead to when Bush leaves office to well deserved discredit. One little silver lining to all this misery.

YAY!!! Lets hope and wish for the defeat of democracy for my own political pleasure.

Real class act their AH.

	04-08-2005 19:23									#96
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another common mistake - confusing the political interests of the Bush Administration with "democracy" or "freedom" or whatever

you really buy the idea that the interests of Bush are synonymous with the foreign policy interests of the USA?

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 04-08-2005 at 19:28

	04-08-2005 19:24									#97
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Of course he does. He's a reactionary, just like his master.

	04-08-2005 19:25									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse What? you mean I have to clean up this mess for you? I never supported this war. I'll say one thing though, the only good thing about Bush getting re-elected is he'll have to carry the can for the war. And so will Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice and the whole neo con gang. They won't be able to say things would have been different if Bush had got a second term. Its kind of delicious to think ahead to when Bush leaves office to well deserved discredit. One little silver lining to all this misery.

Yeah, and then we'll elect either McCain or Hillary, either of whom will apply the force necessary to WIN this war.

	04-08-2005 19:28									#99
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quote: another common mistake - confusing the political interests of the Bush regime with "democracy" or "freedom" or whatever

Regardless of Bush's actual intentions, or whatever intentions you protect on his actions to serve your twisted political cynicim, the result will invariably be more democratic than before.

But we digress, there was thils little thing about you contridicting yourself and then changing the subject.

I resubmit for your correction yet again....

quote: no thats not what I said.

Then take this chance to correct this...

quote: well it does actually because that creature in your avatar and others like him such as Rumsfeld have deliberately kept troops numbers down to keep casualties down

Squim little worm! Che can't save you.

	04-08-2005 19:31									#100
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quote: What? you mean I have to clean up this mess for you? I never supported this war.

I would expect that before you criticize, you form an opinion about what should be done in the alternative. Besides, this continuation of the Gulf War just changed the problems that we had to deal with rather than creating them out of wholecloth.

	04-08-2005 19:32									#101
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yes and where does that last quote say low troop numbers leads to high casualties?

And don't call me a worm cos Ming sent me a PM about stuff like that so I can't respond as I would like

	04-08-2005 19:35									#102
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I would expect that before you criticize, you form an opinion about what should be done in the alternative. Besides, this continuation of the Gulf War just changed the problems that we had to deal with rather than creating them out of wholecloth.

nonsense. Iraq was stable, Saddam Hussein was contained, the oil was flowing and Bush just couldn't leave it alone

why? because he thought a short sharp war in Iraq would deliver domestic political gains and reshape the Middle East in ways favourable to US interests.

	04-08-2005 19:36									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Squim little worm! Che can't save you.

There was a sale on at the tiny tots section of InsultsRUs I see.

It actually scans quite well. Is it a nursery rhyme ?

	04-08-2005 19:42									#104
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quote: There was a sale on at the tiny tots section of InsultsRUs I see. It actually scans quite well. Is it a nursery rhyme ?

OHHH, SNAP. I will go home and cry now...

quote: yes and where does that last quote say low troop numbers leads to high casualties?

If your opinion is we have "have deliberately kept troops numbers down to keep casualties down" then you go ahead and follow that line to its conclusion.

Or continue to squim.

Not like we don't know which one you will choose.

	04-08-2005 19:49									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos If your opinion is we have "have deliberately kept troops numbers down to keep casualties down" then you go ahead and follow that line to its conclusion. Or continue to squim. Not like we don't know which one you will choose.

No I clearly said that was the opinion of the Bush administration, not mine. How did you miss that bit? You keep quoting it.

Separately, the opinion I clearly expressed on casualties was they would be directly proportional to the number of troops, regardless of troop levels, which is quite different, in fact diametrically opposite, to what you keep claiming, rather bizarrely by this stage of the discussion.

	04-08-2005 19:50									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Squim little worm! Che can't save you.

AH can handle himself. Since he is the leader of the counter-revolutionary PROT, I wouldn't save him anyway. SPLITTER!

	04-08-2005 19:51									#107
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I would expect that before you criticize, you form an opinion about what should be done in the alternative.

BS! Just cuz you don't know the right course of action doesn't mean you stay silent when you see the wrong course of action. I may not know how to get to Pasadena, but I'll sure as hell correct the driver if he's headed over a cliff.

	04-08-2005 19:53									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos OHHH, SNAP. I will go home and cry now...

Don't challenge Mollywobbles to an insult fight. I'm just warning you.

	04-08-2005 19:56									#109
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thank goodness the hippy cavalry has arrived - I need to go to bed.........

	04-08-2005 19:56									#110
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And I'm warning ALL of you... get back on topic... sigh...

	04-08-2005 19:58									#111
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara BS! Just cuz you don't know the right course of action doesn't mean you stay silent when you see the wrong course of action. I may not know how to get to Pasadena, but I'll sure as hell correct the driver if he's headed over a cliff.

one doesnt have to offer a right course of action. But one should at least be moderately consistent in ones criticisms - saying that too few troops is the cause of so many casualties, and that if there were 5 times as many troops thered be five times as many casualties, is not consistent.

	04-08-2005 19:59									#112
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goodnight Mingy

	04-08-2005 19:59									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse thank goodness the hippy cavalry has arrived - I need to go to bed.........

Who's a hippie!?! I'll kick your ass!

	04-08-2005 19:59									#114
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Unless you can find me a quote form anyone that the reason we have fewer troops in Iraq is because that will keep casualties down, it is your OPINION that that is what they are doing.

Your opinion is they are keeping troop strength low to avoid casualties. Now if you think that is retarded, then say so, but you didn't, you simply stated the above.

quote: Separately, the opinion I clearly expressed on casualties was they would be directly proportional to the number of troops

Similarly a flawed arguement, but back it up if you dare. But examined the very point of your proportional arguement is that less troops leads to less casualties.

	04-08-2005 20:02									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse nonsense. Iraq was stable

You know it's bad when you have to say "in a manner of speaking" after every opinion.

You don't believe the part about all those millions of children dying from the sanctions?

	04-08-2005 20:04									#116
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I didn't say in manner of speaking

and I didn't support sanctions either

	04-08-2005 20:04									#117
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark one doesnt have to offer a right course of action. But one should at least be moderately consistent in ones criticisms - saying that too few troops is the cause of so many casualties, and that if there were 5 times as many troops thered be five times as many casualties, is not consistent.

I believe that what AH was saying is that the Administration believed that having more troops in Iraq would lead to more casualties on our part, which is why they did not send enough troops to do the job quickly and efficiently. That may have been a factor, but I don't think it was the primary one.

Many moderate and liberals (and even a few conservatives like McCain) criticize the Pres by saying that if they had sent more troops, the casualty levels would have been lower, since they would have been able to assert more control over Iraq.

This may be true. It may not be. We'll never know, since the damage has been done.

In any event, it's not unsual for people on the same side to hold different beliefs. Many anti-war activists still think the war was about oil. I don't, though I think oil factors into it in several ways. That we disagree doesn't mean that the whole left, therefore, doesn't know what it's talking about, as Patroklos was insinuating.

	04-08-2005 20:05									#118
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You also didn't admit you were wrong, but thats all right

	04-08-2005 20:06									#119
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quote: and I didn't support sanctions either

Did you support the Gulf War?

You're a "call station," AH.

	04-08-2005 20:08									#120
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yes I did support Gulf war I

Although I think Kuwait should be part of Iraq, the Brits only carved it out to keep the oil, saddam went about it all wrong