03-08-2005 20:53									#1
	Tory leadership frontrunner attacks multiculturalism Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Shadow Home Secretary David Davis is calling on the government to scrap its "outdated" policy of multiculturalism. Allowing people of different cultures to settle without integrating let the "perverted values of suicide bombers" take root, he told the Daily Telegraph. The leadership hopeful urged ministers to build a single nation and demand "respect for the British way of life".

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Not so much a thread about the merits of multiculturalism - more about the politics around this speech.

Is this really the way to win a tory leadership contest? As the current front runner, does leaping into a divisive issue like this help or hurt him? Are these opinions more acceptable after this month's events?

	03-08-2005 20:55									#2
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant Are these opinions more acceptable after this month's events?

For some, alas, yes.

I'm all in favour of scrapping S4C and compulsory Morris dancing.

Oh, and state funding for religious schools and separate sectarian education in Northern Ireland.

Taken to its logical extension that's what scrapping multiculturalism entails.

	03-08-2005 20:58									#3
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quote: Allowing people of different cultures to settle without integrating let the "perverted values of suicide bombers" take root, he told the Daily Telegraph.

He's right.

	03-08-2005 21:03									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Az He's right.

Whereas presumably allowing separate religious schools in Northern Ireland had no deleterious effect whatsoever.

Hmmm... which British party has a significant number of unionists ?


It's a cheap and easy play to the gallery for the Tories.

	03-08-2005 21:40									#5
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quote: He's right.

I don't think he is - but I'm asking about this speech in relation to the leadship contest, not it's particular rights or wrongs.

quote: It's a cheap and easy play to the gallery for the Tories.

I thought the idea of taking the vote away from regular party members and giving it back to the MPs was to make sure that the MPs could choose a centrist leader.

This kind of language might appeal to normal party members but not MPs who realise that they can't isolate non-whites if they are to have a prayer of getting back into power.

	03-08-2005 21:57									#6
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quote: Whereas presumably allowing separate religious schools in Northern Ireland had no deleterious effect whatsoever. Hmmm... which British party has a significant number of unionists ? It's a cheap and easy play to the gallery for the Tories.

Oh, I have no doubt this is some sort of political posturing. I am just saying- what he said is true.

quote: I don't think he is - but I'm asking about this speech in relation to the leadship contest, not it's particular rights or wrongs.

club thread .

	03-08-2005 22:12									#7
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quote: club thread

club thread?

	03-08-2005 22:59									#8
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Multiculturalism is like communism. It's great in theory but thanks to human nature it's doomed to failure.

	03-08-2005 23:02									#9
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quote: Multiculturalism is like communism.

hey, **** you, I resent that.

	03-08-2005 23:09									#10
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Huh?

	03-08-2005 23:10									#11
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I think more important is to define multiculturalism, for me, as a white English guy, married to an Indian from Bombay .. my 2 children are multicultural, they take the values of both cultures and take them as there own.

What is not multiculturalism, is me moving to Bombay, living in a street with just English people, and not wanting anything to do with Indian culture, hating India and complaining about how ANGRY I am with Indian policy ..

If you don't like it... MOVE

	03-08-2005 23:17									#12
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Viceroy: Yes, that's my point. The first case is what it should be like. However, the second case seems to be much more common

	03-08-2005 23:29									#13
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Where's the surprise? Davis is a "hanger and flogger" of long standing, so it's no surprise to hear him attempting to cynically profit from disaster by playing to the right wing.

Meanwhile, seeing as I spent last Saturday in a Gurdwara with a lot of friends, I think I'll quietly mock the views that multiculturalism is doomed to failure. Culture is an organic and evolving thing, and multicultural evolution will happen whether it's welcomed or not.

	03-08-2005 23:40									#14
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**** it. If Davis wants every single person in this country to have the same values, I fail to see how he is any different to a suicide bomber.

	03-08-2005 23:52									#15
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There's multiculturalism and then there's multiculturalism. I'm all for enriching an existing culture with positive aspects from other cultures, but in practice multiculturalism also allows negative practices from other cultures to flourish because to do otherwise would be "intolerant".

	03-08-2005 23:57									#16
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Which Gurdwara was you in Laz ? I was married in one in hounslow

	04-08-2005 00:00									#17
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Cardiff. I've got a lot of Sikh friends round there.

	04-08-2005 00:05									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia There's multiculturalism and then there's multiculturalism. I'm all for enriching an existing culture with positive aspects from other cultures, but in practice multiculturalism also allows negative practices from other cultures to flourish

Like assuming you possess some sort of genetic intellectual superiority over the darkies? That sort of weak, negative trait?

	04-08-2005 00:07									#19
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My wife is Punjabi.. so it was great fun having both a Sikh wedding and a English one in the afternoon.

	04-08-2005 00:17									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Like assuming you possess some sort of genetic intellectual superiority over the darkies? That sort of weak, negative trait?

Weak, negative traits like assuming that all races and cultures are equal in every aspect.

	04-08-2005 00:18									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Krill **** it. If Davis wants every single person in this country to have the same values, I fail to see how he is any different to a suicide bomber.

He hasn't blown up yet?

	04-08-2005 00:25									#22
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Cal, could you expand.. in what way are races not equal .. or cultures .. just think its better if you spell it out, cos that could easily be misunderstood.

	04-08-2005 00:25									#23
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Oh, now Cali the racist has entered the thread. You are earning yourself a bit of a reputation...

	04-08-2005 00:26									#24
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Is it just me who considers both Islam and Christianity to be an equal danger. I am no fan of religion and I certainly have no preference for one over the other...

	04-08-2005 00:28									#25
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For the 99.9% of good and decent Christians and Muslims, we see neither as a threat.

	04-08-2005 00:33									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant This kind of language might appeal to normal party members but not MPs who realise that they can't isolate non-whites if they are to have a prayer of getting back into power.

how is saying this isolating non-whites, seeing as how the head of the CRE, trevor phillips (aka the blackest man in the world) said the same things last year.

and whatever the motive behind this statement (when are politicians NOT posturing?), davis is right.

	04-08-2005 00:48									#27
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quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy Cal, could you expand.. in what way are races not equal .. or cultures .. just think its better if you spell it out, cos that could easily be misundertood.

Just as individuals differ in their inherent potential, so do races. After all, races are just groups of individuals - why would you expect them all to have exactly the same average potential?

Surely I don't need to give you an example of an inferior culture...

	04-08-2005 00:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Is it just me who considers both Islam and Christianity to be an equal danger. I am no fan of religion and I certainly have no preference for one over the other...

I don't see many Christians blowing themselves up in order to destroy non-Christians.

	04-08-2005 00:50									#29
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I wouldn't trust the Tories to sensibly tone down multiculturalism. They'd almost certainly make a mess of it.

I'm fairly indifferent to multiculturalism. I do object to the concept of 'vibrancy', though - ethnically diverse areas are neither better nor worse than homogenous ones.

	04-08-2005 00:54									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Just as individuals differ in their inherent potential, so do races. After all, races are just groups of individuals - why would you expect them all to have exactly the same average potential? Surely I don't need to give you an example of an inferior culture...

Hey! Don't be coy. It's not like your views are anything to be ashamed of, right?