04-08-2005 00:55									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Hey! Don't be coy. It's not like your views are anything to be ashamed of, right?

Nope, I'm not ashamed in the slightest.

	04-08-2005 00:55									#32
	Remove this text

I wasn't suggesting they were the same,I think there is a big difference between saying cultures and races are different, and cultures and races are not equal.

	04-08-2005 00:56									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Is it just me who considers both Islam and Christianity to be an equal danger.

no sadly there are plenty of deluded people like you :/

	04-08-2005 01:03									#34
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy I wasn't suggesting they were the same,I think there is a big difference between saying cultures and races are different, and cultures and races are not equal.

Looks like we are confusing our terms. Naturally, it's only decent to endeavor to treat people of all races as individuals, but this doesn't mean we should ignore differences.

	04-08-2005 01:05									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That might be reasonable if you weren't trying to find those differences based on something as genetically weak as skin tone.

	04-08-2005 01:07									#36
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok.. I thought maybe thats what you was getting at.

I guess the question is, what constitutes a GOOD difference, and a BAD difference .. that is probably going to be in the eye of the beholder.

	04-08-2005 01:10									#37
	Tired of ads?

Cal thinks Blacks are less intelligent and more prone to criminal behaviour than Whites, and that there is a genetic racial basis to this. Don't you, Cal?

	04-08-2005 01:12									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes he does. But he doesn't believe that's racism.

	04-08-2005 01:16									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That's true. He thinks it's science. Even if he struggles to back it up.

	04-08-2005 01:26									#40
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Cal thinks Blacks are less intelligent and more prone to criminal behaviour than Whites, and that there is a genetic racial basis to this. Don't you, Cal?

On average, yes.

	04-08-2005 02:12									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Is it just me who considers both Islam and Christianity to be an equal danger. I am no fan of religion and I certainly have no preference for one over the other...

Ditto.

	04-08-2005 02:31									#42
	Got spare money?

quote: Is it just me who considers both Islam and Christianity to be an equal danger. I am no fan of religion and I certainly have no preference for one over the other...

I am no fan of neither, but that doesn't mean they're equally dangerous, especially in europe.

	04-08-2005 16:30									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy Cal, could you expand..

Isn't that called BROWN-ian Motion ?

	04-08-2005 17:15									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Az I am no fan of neither, but that doesn't mean they're equally dangerous, especially in europe.

Well so far in Europe Christians have killed more Christians and Muslims than Muslims have killed Christians.


And I didn't notice the squeaky clean British cultural values keeping the Soho Pub Bomber, Dr. Harold Shipman or the Ulster Freedom Fighters from killing anybody.


Still, it's so easy to condemn multiculturalism when you're being vague about what it actually entails or what you mean by it in any given context. It's become as hackneyed a phrase for the Right wing as 'politically correct' in all its usage and abusage.

Do they mean the 'family values' of traditional Muslim and Sikh and Hindu families, for instance ?

Or the strict Christian upbringings and associated mores of immigrant African and Afro-Caribbean families ?

Or the sense of familial duty inculcated in the Chinese community ?

	04-08-2005 17:32									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia On average, yes.

Isn't that a New Zealand flag you're waving?

	04-08-2005 19:54									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Well so far in Europe Christians have killed more Christians and Muslims than Muslims have killed Christians. And I didn't notice the squeaky clean British cultural values keeping the Soho Pub Bomber, Dr. Harold Shipman or the Ulster Freedom Fighters from killing anybody. Still, it's so easy to condemn multiculturalism when you're being vague about what it actually entails or what you mean by it in any given context. It's become as hackneyed a phrase for the Right wing as 'politically correct' in all its usage and abusage. Do they mean the 'family values' of traditional Muslim and Sikh and Hindu families, for instance ? Or the strict Christian upbringings and associated mores of immigrant African and Afro-Caribbean families ? Or the sense of familial duty inculcated in the Chinese community ?

Integration is good. retaining a distinct sense of identity is compatible with integration, and loyalty to the nation. (er, cough)

Maybe its different in the UK, and its certainly different on the far right here, but I think sane folks are thinking about specific issues now, not overall issues with immigrants.

your post puts me in mind of a cartoon from shortly after 9/11.

Passengers on a plane. One is a swarthly looking man. The rest are glancing at him, becoming agitated, nervous. The flight attendant comes by. "Cerveza, por favor" he says. "oh thank God" another passenger says, as they are all visibly relieved.

	04-08-2005 21:43									#47
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney no sadly there are plenty of deluded people like you :/

Deluded because I think people should know better than to believe in fairy tales? I think you need to redefine who has the delusions.

And so you don't consider them to be of equal danger? You consider Moslems to be dangerous then I assume?

	04-08-2005 22:28									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Nope, I'm not ashamed in the slightest.

That's alright... we're ashamed to have such an idiot in our midst; more than enough to compensate for your maladjusted sense of pride in yourself .

	04-08-2005 22:35									#49
	now here's a tough one! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Deluded because I think people should know better than to believe in fairy tales? I think you need to redefine who has the delusions. And so you don't consider them to be of equal danger? You consider Moslems to be dangerous then I assume?

here's a question - members of which religion recently killed more than 50 people in 4 attacks on our capital and then tried to do the self-same thing two weeks later?

and a bonus question, 25% of the members of which religion (according to a yougov survey) sympathise with the motives of the bombers and 6% of the members of the same religion said the bombings were fully justified?

answers on a postcard to 'no really, i'm not just some deluded anti-christian bigot' :/

edit: *tried

	04-08-2005 22:43									#50
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

C0ckney, constituent parts =| responsible for the sum of all constituent parts.

Therefore, cannot be held representative of it. It means that the terrorism is an issue for Muslims, not of Muslims.

	04-08-2005 22:52									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

the question was which religion is more dangerous, the answer is bleeding obvious.

	04-08-2005 22:56									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Depends on your perspective... different times and different places, different religions are more dangerous... there's no inherent higher "danger factor" in any given religion than any others.

I would say however, that religion is generally dangerous but I see no reason to discriminate one fallacy over another.

	04-08-2005 23:01									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Christianity is capable of being manipulated in the same way. It's Bush and his righteous 'crusade' in Iraq (Bush and his cronies always feign Christianity and Christian motives). Tell me, how many people have died in Iraq? Tell me, how many people have died in The Crusades, or the Spanish Conquests of America? And you mean to tell me that Christianity is not capable of these things?

	04-08-2005 23:45									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

that is incredibly weak provost, but then i guess if my position was as hopeless as yours, i'd be clutching at straws and talking about things which happened 100s of years ago too :/

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Depends on your perspective...

indeed. if you have an irrational axe to grind against christians (like ph) or believe in absolute moral relativism or other such BS (like you) then you'll think one thing. if however you look at what's going on around you with a bit of simple common sense, you think the other.

	04-08-2005 23:48									#55
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney that is incredibly weak provost, but then i guess if my position was as hopeless as yours, i'd be clutching at straws and talking about things which happened 100s of years ago too :/

IIRC, the Iraq War is still going on right now...the other points demonstrate it's capability.

quote: indeed. if you have an irrational axe to grind against christians (like ph) or believe in absolute moral relativism or other such BS (like you) then you'll think one thing. if however you look at what's going on around you with a bit of simple common sense, you think the other.

Biblebashers lecturing me on irrationality

	04-08-2005 23:51									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: that is incredibly weak provost, but then i guess if my position was as hopeless as yours, i'd be clutching at straws and talking about things which happened 100s of years ago too :/

If you're going to avoid answering people's questions, at least put some effort into it .

quote: indeed. if you have an irrational axe to grind against christians (like ph) or believe in absolute moral relativism or other such BS (like you) then you'll think one thing. if however you look at what's going on around you with a bit of simple common sense, you think the other.

Actually it's pretty much the other way around these days . Speaking for myself, it's inconsistent of me to attack fundamentalist Islam without attacking fundamentalist Christianity, and as an atheist it is absurd to reserve my venom for Christianity.

I'd hardly think that tarring people with the same brush because it's the obvious thing to do is hardly common sense. Common sense requires thought and consideration, not the latest edition of The Sun and a copy of Mein Kampf translated by a dyslexic clad in burberry .

	04-08-2005 23:53									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Biblebashers lecturing me on irrationality

Damn you for getting there before me!

	05-08-2005 00:10									#58
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Christianity is capable of being manipulated in the same way. It's Bush and his righteous 'crusade' in Iraq (Bush and his cronies always feign Christianity and Christian motives). Tell me, how many people have died in Iraq? Tell me, how many people have died in The Crusades, or the Spanish Conquests of America? And you mean to tell me that Christianity is not capable of these things?

Christianity certainly historically was capable of maniupulation to crusades and mass brutality. Certain changes had to take place in it which made christianity safe for democracy. There are certainly muslims, from the US and Britain, to Turkey, to Iraq and Afghanistan, who are trying to move Islam in that same direction. We need to support them in their struggle against those who trying to go back to the worst in Islam - but to pretend that this struggle isnt, at some level about Islam is silly. Its not a war ON Islam, its a war FOR the future of Islam.


And of course Bush doesnt call Iraq a crusade. Hell, the religious group in Iraq most empowered by the US invasion is the Shiite muslims - pretty silly for a crusade, huh?

	05-08-2005 00:12									#59
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

is everyone here aware that the new US ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad is a (sunni) Muslim?

	05-08-2005 00:26									#60
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney indeed. if you have an irrational axe to grind against christians (like ph) or believe in absolute moral relativism or other such BS (like you) then you'll think one thing. if however you look at what's going on around you with a bit of simple common sense, you think the other.

Or, if your memory stretches back further than five years, you'd realise that by your definitions the most dangerous religion up until that time was Christianity.