15-08-2005 09:47									#211
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Pack a lunch.

	15-08-2005 09:47									#212
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We need a self-pwned smiley. only works in reference to self... well, until then, this gif I ran across the other day will have to do:

	15-08-2005 09:49									#213
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Actually, this is a much better example:

	15-08-2005 10:03									#214
	Re: 45% of Americans are Morons Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS According to ABC 45% of Americans believe in Creationism and that God created man 10,000 years ago...

The thing that you don't mention is that only 9% of Americans believe in the Theory of Evolution. That's pretty telling since we're all taught it as though it were fact.

	15-08-2005 10:09									#215
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Yeah, it shows how much more intelligent Poly is than the real world.

	15-08-2005 10:17									#216
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That's like me saying that people who like the color blue are more intelligent because I like the color blue. That aint intelligent. It's plain stupid youngling.

	15-08-2005 10:20									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Yeah, it shows how much more intelligent Poly is than the real world.

That the real US, at least. They are bit better on this sort of stuff in Europe.

quote: originally posted by Kid If you really refuted it more people would agree with you. People aren't morons, if you're really proved something they will listen.

Saddam Hussein wasn't involved in 9/11. However, since so many people believe that he was, I guess that claim hasn't been proven, eh?

	15-08-2005 10:26									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Saddam Hussein wasn't involved in 9/11. However, since so many people believe that he was, I guess that claim hasn't been proven, eh?

It hasn't been proven either way. If it were I would imagine that over time there would much more agreement on it, wouldn't you?

	15-08-2005 10:29									#219
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quote: Blind faith means closing your eyes to facts. Who has closed their eyes, and to what facts?

The creationists. Duh.

I think it's high time to send Kid to a re-education camp.

	15-08-2005 10:32									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: Blind faith means closing your eyes to facts. Who has closed their eyes, and to what facts? The creationists. Duh.

Some do and some don't. There is no evidence that the universe was not created, so it's possible to believe that it was without blind faith. Many people do.

	15-08-2005 10:36									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's like me saying that people who like the color blue are more intelligent because I like the color blue. That aint intelligent. It's plain stupid youngling.

No, they're more intelligent because they believe in the theory supported by vast amounts of evidence as opposed to the theory supported by a book written by people thousands of years ago.

	15-08-2005 10:37									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious It hasn't been proven either way. If it were I would imagine that over time there would much more agreement on it, wouldn't you?

No.

	15-08-2005 10:43									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No, they're more intelligent because they believe in the theory supported by vast amounts of evidence as opposed to the theory supported by a book written by people thousands of years ago.

If you think you know something and 91% of the people have the same information that you do and they doubt it that means you are stupid. Whether or not evidence is significant or not is subjective, and you're only assuming to be more intelligent than most people for no good reason. That's pretty stupid.

	15-08-2005 10:48									#224
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quote: Some do and some don't. There is no evidence that the universe was not created, so it's possible to believe that it was without blind faith. Many people do.

By creationists one means people who don't believe in pure chemical evolution, but think that "god's hand guided it". I'll let "who made the big bang" argument out of the picture, for now.

quote: If you think you know something and 91% of the people have the same information that you do and they doubt it that means you are stupid.

But they don't. Most people don't have the same information.

	15-08-2005 10:57									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: Some do and some don't. There is no evidence that the universe was not created, so it's possible to believe that it was without blind faith. Many people do. By creationists one means people who don't believe in pure chemical evolution, but think that "god's hand guided it".

Let's go back to this claim: Not believing in the Theory of Evolution and having all the facts is not blind faith. What do you say to that?

quote: quote: If you think you know something and 91% of the people have the same information that you do and they doubt it that means you are stupid. But they don't. Most people don't have the same information.

Everyone who has graduated from high school has the information. What information do they not teach you in high school that would make the difference?

	15-08-2005 10:58									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you think you know something and 91% of the people have the same information that you do and they doubt it that means you are stupid.

1) They don't have the same information I do. That's the frigging point of education.

2) That's wrong anyway.

	15-08-2005 11:00									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker 1) They don't have the same information I do. That's the frigging point of education.

I thought you were just taking high school Biology?

	15-08-2005 11:09									#228
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quote: Let's go back to this claim: Not believing in the Theory of Evolution and having all the facts is not blind faith. What do you say to that?

I say this is wrong, because it grasps at straws.

quote: Everyone who has graduated from high school has the information. What information do they not teach you in high school that would make the difference?

Not all people are tought that, and not all people who are tought that, are tought at a sufficiently good level.

	15-08-2005 11:30									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: Let's go back to this claim: Not believing in the Theory of Evolution and having all the facts is not blind faith. What do you say to that? I say this is wrong, because it grasps at straws.

Saying they are "grasping at straws" is the same thing as saying they are relying on "blind faith." You are just claiming that they are ignoring the facts. Can't you just tell me what facts you think they are ignoring?

quote: quote: Everyone who has graduated from high school has the information. What information do they not teach you in high school that would make the difference? Not all people are tought that, and not all people who are tought that, are tought at a sufficiently good level.

That's funny, much more than 9% of them have learned a lot else. Why do you think they didn't learn the Theory of Evolution? It's taught by people who are certified teachers in science for the most part.

	15-08-2005 11:41									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

Apart, of course, from all the fossil and genetic evidence.

	15-08-2005 12:02									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Apart, of course, from all the fossil and genetic evidence.

You can call it evidence if you want. It really doesn't matter unless you prove something.

	15-08-2005 13:29									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Bullshit. I understand it. There is no proof there. Tell me the proof, and skip the one word explanations. There is no proof, nothing of the sort.

Com'on. Repeating the same thing three times in a short post doesn't make it true.

First, let me point out again that you don't "prove" anything in science. Full stop.

Now, there are observed instances of speciations. This, plus a mountain of evidence from many other branches of science makes evolution one of the best supported theory in science.

Evolution has predictive power, and it can explain all sorts of observations and facts.

As I said, if you are seriously interested, go to the website I linked previously, instead of just repeating vague handwaving assertions.

	15-08-2005 13:51									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious There is no evidence that the universe was not created, so it's possible to believe that it was without blind faith. Many people do.

Making up an assertion and ask the other side to prove a negative is a surefire way to raise a red flag about you.

If you want to play it that way, I can just easy assert that there is no evidence that evolutiion is not the case. Disprove it.

	15-08-2005 14:29									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If you want to play it that way, I can just easy assert that there is no evidence that evolutiion is not the case. Disprove it.

I could care less. My interest here is not to argue for or against either side. My interest here is that people say that religious people think that their beliefs are facts when they aren't, but the people here do the same thing.

This mountain of evidence that human beings have evolved from another species is nothing. You can call it evidence or a mountain of evidence, it's just words coming out of your mouth. You aren't going to convince anyone unless you make an argument and stop calling people morons.

	15-08-2005 14:43									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You guys call people names and make people feel uncomfortable when they question your beliefs on things that you can't prove. What a bunch of hypocrates.

Hmmm... Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle .


The difference between disagreements between scientists and believers is that scientific disputes tend not to end in burnings at the stake, wholesale censorship, wars, et cetera.

Science is about method, not about belief in the religious sense.

If mediaeval monks 'believed' certain things about the physical body of Jesus or Mary or how many wills Jesus had- one divine, one human, both simultaneously, both separately, neither- then what methods could they be expected to use to prove their suppositions ?


If, on the other hand, al Biruni wants to show the Caliph in Baghdad that the earth is a sphere, what methods would he use, and what is the difference between the two examples ?

	15-08-2005 14:59									#236
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Hmmm... Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle .

I'm not claiming that any of my beliefs are indisputable.

quote: The difference between disagreements between scientists and believers is that scientific disputes tend not to end in burnings at the stake, wholesale censorship, wars, et cetera. Science is about method, not about belief in the religious sense.

The question is whether or not this is a scientific dispute or not. I see it as religious and political on both sides. Since the scientific method doesn't prove anything in this case, discussion on it is irrelevent.

	15-08-2005 15:23									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The question is whether or not this is a scientific dispute or not. I see it as religious and political on both sides. Since the scientific method doesn't prove anything in this case, discussion on it is irrelevent.

No, the question is ' Which method is better suited for explaining observable physical phenomena and extrapolating based on inductive reasoning? '

The answer is example two.

You could believe, in the religious sense, for example, that the earth stood on the back of a tortoise, or was flat, or there were crystal spheres in space, but it would be hard proving the existence of any of this via the scientific method

Al Biruni (and the European philosopher-theologians who dismissed the Averroist determinist view of Aristotelian science) relied on measurement, experimentation, observation- not leaps of faith or predetermined dogma.

Galileo observed wryly that he did not consider Aristotle had ever performed an experiment in order to test his hypotheses.

No surprises for guessing which philosopher-scientist was the favourite of the Catholic Church.

	15-08-2005 15:51									#238
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom No, the question is ' Which method is better suited for explaining observable physical phenomena and extrapolating based on inductive reasoning? '

How do you know which method is better if you don't know which theory is correct and no method can tell you beyond a reasonable doubt? The scientific method works great for explaining things like gravity, but where it can't prove something it can't prove that a theory is better or worse. When it can't prove a theory it's just a political tool.

	15-08-2005 16:00									#239
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Gravity is an amusing example to use of something science has a complete grasp of.

	15-08-2005 16:11									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How do you know which method is better if you don't know which theory is correct and no method can tell you beyond a reasonable doubt? The scientific method works great for explaining things like gravity, but where it can't prove something it can't prove that a theory is better or worse. When it can't prove a theory it's just a political tool.

You haven't explained or adequately represented which method the Creationists or believers or whatever you want to call them, are using to support their 'belief'.

The scientific method is open to investigation, and more importantly, if a scientist states that she or he has discovered something, then it should be possible to reproduce the result using the same or similar methods.

By what methods did the monks decide that Mary was free of sin, or that the sun revolved around the Earth or that transsubstantiation was a fact ?

Reasonable doubt does not even enter into this.

Has anyone seen the elephants or the turtle upon which the earth is alleged to stand ? Encountered teh crystal spheres ?

What could make one reasonably infer from reproducible experiments and observations that the earth is an oblate spheroid and not flat, or connected to a heavenly plane by a mythical world tree ?

And what observations make you 'believe' in the existence of Yggdrasil and Bifrost the Rainbow Bridge ?


You're simply using the head in the sand or fingers in the ear approach to scientific evidence and methods that disagree with what you hold 'might' be true.


If your faith in science is in truth so shallow, then I suggest that the next time you are seriously ill, ignore the hospital or clinic, and ask for divine intervention.

Similarly, when engaging in long-distance travel, do not opt for any method which has relied on scientific advances, but go for for the saintly bilocation route.

And let us know the results of your experiments.