15-08-2005 03:20									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Abiogenisis is not only highly plausible, but scientists have been getting pretty close to achieving it in the laboratory.

True, but BK is being dishonest yet again by claiming that abiogenesis is a "necessary plank" of evolution. It isn't, as the ToE stood for quite some time before abiogenesis was even suggested. ToE explains how life changed once it got started, not its origins.

	15-08-2005 05:44									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Of course things can be true and non-verifiable, but any such theory is meaningless without reference to verifiables.

I disagree. Verifying your theory is nice, but when there are no verifiables you still have to make a choice. That's human nature.

quote: The scientific method gives a confidence in the theory as it requests quantifiable, measurable and predictated results that can be repeated and compared to to the theory. Where the theory continually measures up it gains credibility, and where it fails the theory is refined or replaced.

My point is that something is either a natural law or a historical fact or it is not. If it is neither then individuals will come to different reasonable conclusions.

quote: It is entirely possible the theory of evolution is wrong, the scientific method does not say that the theory of evolution is right. It just says that on the strong balance of probability, it is.

I don't agree. I don't think there is any probable evidence at all. Have you done some calculations? How did you calculate the probability?

	15-08-2005 05:48									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison The theory of evolution has stood up to all manner of scrutiny. The only thing that has happened to it is it has been refined in light of our knowledge of heredity and genetics. The original theory was correct, just incomplete, and at the time of Darwin, couldn't possibly be complete...

The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

	15-08-2005 05:49									#184
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Kid, you're completely clueless. Stop pwning yourself, it's not even funny.

	15-08-2005 05:50									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: And you have faith in this statement. Not blind faith, or almost blind faith. You could say that I "believe this to be the truth", but that's true of any opinion held by anyone ever. I am perfectly willing to reconsider if you come up with major flows in this, or come up with something better.

Blind faith means closing your eyes to facts. Who has closed their eyes, and to what facts?

	15-08-2005 06:11									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

You know, every know and again I actually agree with Kuciwalker...

How could you type that with a straight face dude?

	15-08-2005 06:12									#187
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I feel ill.

	15-08-2005 06:13									#188
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MOBIUS or Kid, MOBIUS or Kid, blech.

	15-08-2005 06:25									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

o_O

	15-08-2005 07:22									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

How do you explain mutations?

	15-08-2005 07:25									#191
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Also how do you explain the breeding of new breeds of dogs and other animals?

	15-08-2005 07:27									#192
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God did it!

	15-08-2005 08:34									#193
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley How do you explain mutations?

I imagine the same way that you do. The difference is that I know that it's not proof that humans evolved from another species.

	15-08-2005 08:37									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker So? In this case making more money is consistent with helping the environment.

Flooding the fields with pesticides does not help the environment.

	15-08-2005 08:47									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor All belief systems (be they religions or spiritualities) are trying to explain the world for the human mind, to make out sense out of the world.

Science is not a belief system. The only similarity between science and religion is certain parts of scientific models are taken as true without proof. These are called postulates. However, everything else is just as different as you can get.

In science, people are encouraged to question and be skeptical, in religion, questions are frowned upon and skepticism is a taboo. In science, observations and facts hold primacy. If models don't fit the models are adjusted. In religion, doctrines hold primacy. If reality doesn't fit doctrines reality can go down a flushing toilet.

	15-08-2005 08:50									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The Theory of Evolution hasn't stood up to any scrutiny because there was never any evidence of it. No one has ever offered any proof that man evolved from another species.

Either this is a very bad flamebait or you are completely ignorant on the subject. I am going to give you benefit of the doubt now and call this a troll.

BTW, unlike mathematics, theories gets "proved" in science.

	15-08-2005 08:52									#197
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* Odin bashes skull into wall 100 times

Kid, quit being an idiot. Not only does evolution hapen, what we know of biochemistry, molecular biology, and ecology proves it MUST happen. Looks like you just proved the point I told Imran about otherwise rational, well educated people saying science was "just another belief system".

	15-08-2005 08:59									#198
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That's all I have to say. People here like to complain about religion, saying that religious people don't listen to questions, but they themselves do the very same thing. You guys call people names and make people feel uncomfortable when they question your beliefs on things that you can't prove. What a bunch of hypocrates.

	15-08-2005 09:00									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No. That is incorrect. There are things that are true that are not verifiable.

Things that people assert to be true but cannot be verified are not in the domain of science. In fact, sensible people reject such assertions to be fantasies.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Not in the case of the Theory of Evolution because it is reasonable to believe that the theory is false and also reasonable to believe that the theory is true.

Good joke

	15-08-2005 09:06									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Things that people assert to be true but cannot be verified are not in the domain of science. In fact, sensible people reject such assertions to be fantasies.

everybody does this (the first sentence)

including scientists

JM

	15-08-2005 09:06									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's all I have to say. People here like to complain about religion, saying that religious people don't listen to questions, but they themselves do the very same thing.

We do, but not rehashed silliness that was refuted decades ago. If you have specific questions feel free to ask, but vague handwaving dismissals such as "there is no evidence to evolution" is just totally rubbish.

If you are seriously interested in evolution, this website is a treasure trove.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You guys call people names and make people feel uncomfortable when they question your beliefs on things that you can't prove.

Is this a "god of the gaps" argument?

	15-08-2005 09:08									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller everybody does this (the first sentence) including scientists

Any specific examples?

	15-08-2005 09:20									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger We do, but not rehashed silliness that was refuted decades ago. If you have specific questions feel free to ask, but vague handwaving dismissals such as "there is no evidence to evolution" is just totally rubbish.

If you really refuted it more people would agree with you. People aren't morons, if you're really proved something they will listen.

	15-08-2005 09:22									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's all I have to say. People here like to complain about religion, saying that religious people don't listen to questions, but they themselves do the very same thing. You guys call people names and make people feel uncomfortable when they question your beliefs on things that you can't prove. What a bunch of hypocrates.

Scientific theories are open to criticism if there are facts backing up said criticism (something that ID'ers have failed miserably by relying on a God-in-the-Gaps argument). Religion is not. You cannot compare the two. I sugest you read a few of the books by geneticist Richard Dawkins, especially Climbing Mount Improbable, The Blind Watchmaker, and An Ancestor's Tale; as well as What Evolution Is by late evolutionary biologist Ernst Mayr and educate yourself on the subject.

	15-08-2005 09:25									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Scientific theories are open to criticism if there are facts backing up said criticism (something that ID'ers have failed miserably by relying on a God-in-the-Gaps argument). Religion is not. You cannot compare the two.

Gee, hanging around Poly they look pretty damn similar to me, although I know that most REAL scientist are nothing like what I see here.

	15-08-2005 09:25									#206
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the 'fact' that physics far from the earth is the same as physics close to the earth

all of space science is based upon this beleif, but there it can not be verified right now

many physicists/science minded people think that string theory and the like is true

from everything I have seen about quantum gravity and string theory and the like, the predicted energies are involved such that I doubt that they will ever be able to be verified

I could go on and on, these are just scientific examples, I could go into general ones also

JM

	15-08-2005 09:29									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you really refuted it more people would agree with you. People aren't morons, if you're really proved something they will listen.

They would if they understand it, but they don't because of a poor science education and nonsence spewed by creationists. Also, people have a hard time coming to grips with something that says life has no meaing besides maximizing reproductive potential.

	15-08-2005 09:31									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Odin They would if they understand it, but they don't because of a poor science education and nonsence spewed by creationists. Also, people have a hard time coming to grips with something that says life has no meaing besides maximizing reproductive potential.

Bullshit. I understand it. There is no proof there. Tell me the proof, and skip the one word explanations. There is no proof, nothing of the sort.

	15-08-2005 09:31									#209
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by the way, let me add that I beleive them (At least the fact that the physics thousands of light years away is the same as physics here at the earth)

but I recognise it is a beleif, and don't call others stupid who have a belief in something unverifiable

JM

	15-08-2005 09:40									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you really refuted it more people would agree with you. People aren't morons, if you're really proved something they will listen.

I'm so going to use this in the next cap/com thread...

Utterly self-pwned.