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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
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So much useful information here!
Good to know that this is one of the most powerful pressure groups in America 
http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm
quote:
There are certain signs of prehomosexuality which are easy to recognize, and the signs come early in the child's life. Most come under the heading of "cross-gender behavior." There are five markers to [diagnose] a child with "gender-identity disorder." They are:
1. Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.
2. In boys, preference for cross-dressing, or simulating female attire. In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.
3. Strong and persistent preference for cross-sexual roles in make-believe play, or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.
4. Intense desire to participate in stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.
5. Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.
The onset of most cross-gender behavior occurs during the pre-school years, between the ages of two and four. You needn't worry about occasional cross-dressing. You should become concerned, though, when your little boy continues doing so and, at the same time, begins to acquire some other alarming habits. He may start using his mother's makeup. He may avoid other boys in the neighborhood and their rough-and-tumble activities and prefer being with his sisters instead, who play with dolls and dollhouses. Later he may start speaking in a high-pitched voice. He may affect the exaggerated gestures and even the walk of a girl, or become fascinated with long hair, earrings and scarves. 12 In one study of sixty effeminate boys aged four to eleven, 98 percent of them engaged in cross-dressing, and 83 percent said they wished they had been born a girl. 13
The fact is, there is a high correlation between feminine behavior in boyhood and adult homosexuality. There are telltale signs of discomfort with . . . boys and deep-seated and disturbing feelings that they [are] different and somehow inferior. And yet parents often miss the warning signs and wait too long to seek help for their children. One reason for this is that they are not being told the truth about their children's gender confusion, and they have no idea what to do about it.
Perhaps you are concerned about your child and his or her "sexual development." Maybe your son or daughter is saying things like, "I must be gay," or "I'm bisexual." You've found same-sex porn in his room or evidence that he has accessed it on the Internet. You've found intimate journal entries about another girl in her diary. The most important message I can offer to you is that there is no such thing as a "gay child" or a "gay teen."[But] left untreated, studies show these boys have a 75 percent chance of becoming homosexual or bisexual. 14
It is important to understand, however, that most of my homosexual clients were not explicitly feminine when they were children. More often, they displayed a "nonmasculinity" that set them painfully apart from other boys: unathletic, somewhat passive, unaggressive and uninterested in rough-and-tumble play. A number of them had traits that could be considered gifts: bright, precocious, social and relational and artistically talented. These characteristics had one common tendency: they set them apart from their male peers and contributed to a distortion in the development of their normal gender identity.
Because most of these men hadn't been explicitly feminine boys, their parents had not suspected anything was wrong, so they had made no efforts at seeking therapy. Many clients have told me, "If only—back then when I was a child—someone had understood the doubts, the feeling of not belonging—and tried to help me."
But make no mistake. A boy can be sensitive, kind, social, artistic, gentle—and be heterosexual. He can be an artist, an actor, a dancer, a cook, a musician—and heterosexual. These innate artistic skills are "who he is," part of the wonderful range of human abilities, and there's no reason to discourage them. But they can all be developed within the context of normal heterosexual manhood.
In my opinion (and in the opinion of an increasing number of researchers), the father plays an essential role in a boy's normal development as a man. The truth is, Dad is more important than Mom. Mothers make boys. Fathers make men. In infancy, both boys and girls are emotionally attached to the mother. In psychoanalytic language, Mother is the first love object. She meets all her child's primary needs. 15
Girls can continue to grow in their identification with their mothers. On the other hand, a boy has an additional developmental task—to disidentify from his mother and identify with his father. At this point [beginning at about eighteen months], a little boy will not only begin to observe the difference, he must now decide, "Which one am I going to be?" In making this shift in identity, the little boy begins to take his father as a model of masculinity. At this early stage, generally before the age of three, Ralph Greenson observed, the boy decides that he would like to grow up like his father. 16 This is a choice. Implicit in that choice is the decision that he would not like to grow up to be like his mother. According to Robert Stoller, "The first order of business in being a man is, 'don't be a woman.'"17
Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger. (what!?!?!?!?!?!)
Based on my work with adult homosexuals, I try to avoid the necessity of a long and sometimes painful therapy by encouraging parents, particularly fathers, to affirm their sons' maleness. Parental education, in this area and all others, can prevent a lifetime of unhappiness and a sense of alienation. When boys begin to relate to their fathers, and begin to understand what is exciting, fun and energizing about their fathers, they will learn to accept their own masculinity. They will find a sense of freedom—of power—by being different from their mothers, outgrowing them as they move into a man's world. If parents encourage their sons in these ways, they will help them develop masculine identities and be well on their way to growing up straight. In 15 years, I have spoken with hundreds of homosexual men. I have never met one who said he had a loving, respectful relationship with his father. 18
Many of these fathers loved their sons and wanted the best for them, but for whatever reason (perhaps there was a mismatch between the father's and son's temperaments), the boy perceived his father as a negative or inadequate role model. Dad was "not who I am" or "not who I want to be." A boy needs to see his father as confident, self-assured and decisive. He also needs him to be supportive, sensitive and caring. Mom needs to back off a bit. What I mean is, don't smother him. Let him do more things for himself. Don't try to be both Mom and Dad for him. If he has questions, tell him to ask Dad. She should defer to her husband anything that will give him a chance to demonstrate that he is interested in his son—that he isn't rejecting him.
But this natural process of gender identification can sometimes go awry. The late Irving Bieber, a prominent researcher, observed that prehomosexual boys are sometimes the victims of their parents' unhappy marital relationship. 19 In a scenario where Mom and Dad are battling, one way Dad can "get even" with Mom is by emotionally abandoning their son.
Some fathers find a way to get involved in everything but their sons. They lose themselves in their careers, in travel, in golf, or in any number of activities that become so all-important to them that they have no time for their boys—or for that "one particular son" who is harder to relate to because he does not share Dad's interests. Perhaps the activities this particular son enjoys are more social and less typically masculine.
I've even seen fathers who did not necessarily have other distracting interests but simply remained emotionally removed from the entire family. I saw one father—an immature and inadequate man who emphatically told his wife, before the son was born, that he did not want a boy—completely reject and ignore their son and dote on their daughter. Apparently threatened by the idea of having another "man in the house," this father made his displeasure so clear that, by the age of two, his son was (not surprisingly) wearing dresses and playing with a doll collection.
For a variety of reasons, some mothers also have a tendency to prolong their sons' infancy. A mother's intimacy with her son is primal, complete, exclusive; theirs is a powerful bond which can deepen into what psychiatrist Robert Stoller calls a "blissful symbiosis." But the mother may be inclined to hold onto her son in what becomes an unhealthy mutual dependency, especially if she does not have a satisfying, intimate relationship with the boy's father. She can put too much energy into the boy, using him to fulfill her own needs in a way that is not good for him. In reparative therapy [a psychologist's name for treatment of homosexuals], effeminate boys yearn for what is called "the three A's." They are: their father's affection, attention and approval.
If [a father] wants his son to grow up straight, he has to break the mother-son connection that is proper to infancy but not in the boy's interest after the age of three. In this way, the father has to be a model, demonstrating that it is possible for his son to maintain a loving relationship with this woman, his mom, while maintaining his own independence. In this way, the father is a healthy buffer between mother and son.
Recalling the words of psychologist Robert Stoller, he said, "Masculinity is an achievement." 20 [He] meant that growing up straight isn't something that happens. It requires good parenting. It requires societal support. And it takes time. The crucial years are from one and a half to three years old, but the optimal time is before age twelve. Once mothers and fathers recognize the problems their children face, agree to work together to help resolve them, and seek the guidance and expertise of a psychotherapist who believes change is possible, there is great hope. 21
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I'm sure that has been educating for all of you
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Guynemer
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So much hate in this country...
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Guynemer
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Or you could do a great public service and take out their HQ in the middle of the night when no one is around, a la Fight Club.
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Jon Miller
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I agree that doing some things might assist in not having gender confusion (which is much different the gayness)
like not doing
1. Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.
makes a good deal of sense
Jon Miller
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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Wasn't this posted before ??
Its BS-- through and through
As a parent, I just laugh when my boy, age 2, grabs a purse and carries it for a while. I will be a positive role model but if he wants figure skating over hockey, so be it. I frankly don't care if he chooses football, gymnastics, art, knitting or whatever as long as he continues to learn and develop. Children explore and experiment and I think its silly to try to limit that (as long as they are safe of course).
As for his orientation thats for him to decide/discover as well (much later). In our current society, to be totally honest, I would hope he would be straight since it is more socially acceptable and therefore a less difficult road but my bigger hope is that it will soon cease to matter . I have no desire to "prevent gayness"-- what a silly concept.
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Ninot
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Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'll wait and see if anyone here on the forum agrees with FotF, or whether this will be like the usual circlejerks. |
Why would I want to agree with it? Most of it seems contrary to everything I've ever witnessed or learned from reputable conduits of knowledge.
I've got gay friends that never once displayed any of the tendencies this guy mentions, and are still bastions of masculinity today, but prefer the company of men, so-to-speak.
Last edited by Ninot on 17-08-2005 at 20:00
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Jon Miller
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I think there would be a whole lot less confusion over homosexuality in people if the idea that
does not follow gender sterotypes = gay
was not favored
this would be a good thing for all involved (both for homosexuals and straights)
JM
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninot
I've got gay friends that never once displayed any of the tendencies this guy mentions, and are still bastions of masculinity today, but prefer the company of men, so-to-speak. |
Ya it seems to equate being effeminant with being homosexual . I'm not sure there is that much of a correlation at all.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandman
So his solution to gay kids is more rough-and-tumble play and showering together.
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He wants them to become Finns?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
I think there would be a whole lot less confusion over homosexuality in people if the idea that
does not follow gender sterotypes = gay
was not favored
this would be a good thing for all involved (both for homosexuals and straights)
JM |
Exactly-- There are gay jocks, fighters, wrestlers, footballers-- the most masculine of men-- heck aren't their a fairly high number of gay bodybuilders?
The only difference I would guess is that a smaller proportion of people in these areas are comfortable being "out" since it is less socially acceptable.
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
Exactly-- There are gay jocks, fighters, wrestlers, footballers-- the most masculine of men-- heck aren't their a fairly high number of gay bodybuilders?
The only difference I would guess is that a smaller proportion of people in these areas are comfortable being "out" since it is less socially acceptable. |
I think that some of the difference is that the effeminate men are told that they are gay
I know that I have been told I was gay (or joked that I was gay, or thought that I was gay by people who knew me well.. etc)
edit: I would like to add that I am not particularly effeminate
JM
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17-08-2005 19:17
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