21-08-2005 05:52									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker There's a reason God invented student advisors. It's also pretty obvious from the course names...

That's not the issue.

Most people in HS have created an elaborate sotry about how they know what they want to do in life. This story may or may not be true. If someone is made to take a variety of classes, they may either strenghten their faith in their previous plan, or realize that in fact what they thought they wanted to do is not what they have a passion for at all.

I think the sooner people make this decision, the better.

I chose all my classes, but there is a difference between choices devoid of a context and choices within a contaxt and designed to try to better the student.

	21-08-2005 05:54									#92
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quote: Most people in HS have created an elaborate sotry about how they know what they want to do in life. This story may or may not be true. If someone is made to take a variety of classes, they may either strenghten their faith in their previous plan, or realize that in fact what they thought they wanted to do is not what they have a passion for at all.

Then let those who are doubtful take a variety of classes. I'm quite confident about what I want to study and what I want to do, and I don't want to waste time when I could be getting the most possible out of my university.

	21-08-2005 05:57									#93
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I told my kids education is about giving yourself options in life so they should try to do their best at everything.

I also told them to follow the things they like and they would find their way.

	21-08-2005 07:36									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Then let those who are doubtful take a variety of classes. I'm quite confident about what I want to study and what I want to do, and I don't want to waste time when I could be getting the most possible out of my university.

Getting the most out of a university would be learning about thing you might never have known existed.

	21-08-2005 07:38									#95
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No, getting the most would be learning as much as possible about the things I need to know.

	21-08-2005 07:49									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No, getting the most would be learning as much as possible about the things I need to know.

And yet you persist in the fiction that you already know what that is.

Maybe you should read a bit more Socrates.

	21-08-2005 07:51									#97
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quote: And yet you persist in the fiction that you already know what that is.

Knowing which knowledge I must have and which skills I must acquire is different from actually possessing said knowledge or skills.

In order to be an engineer, I have to know calculus. I know this. That doesn't mean that I know calculus. I do, but that's beside the point.

	21-08-2005 07:59									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Knowing which knowledge I must have and which skills I must acquire is different from actually possessing said knowledge or skills. In order to be an engineer, I have to know calculus. I know this. That doesn't mean that I know calculus. I do, but that's beside the point.

That is not the point. The "fiction" is that at your age you "know" what it is that you will do, and want to do, with your life. Maybe, maybe not. It takes a great ego thought to think that the answers and the path is already set, and that all you have to do is find out how to walk down it.

Whatever, this is the fundamental difference in view between us as to the meaning of education. For you education is a means towards another goal. I view education as a goal in and of itself, additional to any other goals we might want to achieve.

	21-08-2005 08:01									#99
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quote: That is not the point. The "fiction" is that at your age you "know" what it is that you will do, and want to do, with your life.

It's not a fiction.

My dad decided he wanted to be an actuary at 15, and started studying for the first exam. Guess what? He became an actuary.

	21-08-2005 08:07									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: That is not the point. The "fiction" is that at your age you "know" what it is that you will do, and want to do, with your life. It's not a fiction. My dad decided he wanted to be an actuary at 15, and started studying for the first exam. Guess what? He became an actuary.

Yes, of course, Cause the random example of 1 single human being out the of tens of billions that have lived proves a point.....

As I said, "maybe, maybe not".

	21-08-2005 08:14									#101
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quote: Yes, of course, Cause the random example of 1 single human being out the of tens of billions that have lived proves a point.....

I think I'd be more qualified to decide whether I know what I want to do than some random stranger on the internet.

	21-08-2005 08:15									#102
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College students are adults in every sense of the word. There's no reason to try and force judgement on them.

	21-08-2005 08:39									#103
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quote: My dad decided he wanted to be an actuary at 15, and started studying for the first exam. Guess what? He became an actuary.

Your dad sounds like a nerd.

quote: As many as you need to educate your college-ready population. In fairness, the problem is perhaps not the number of colleges, but the number of seats they need to fill -- which amounts to the same thing. College enrollment expanded dramatically during the baby boom, both for demographic reasons and because being in college kept young men out of Vietnam. The problem is, once colleges got used to those huge numbers, they were reluctant to shrink again. The result is a need to accept students who are not equipped fro college, and wouldn't have been accepted at one even a generation ago.

Well, what should we do here and now?

	21-08-2005 08:41									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I think I'd be more qualified to decide whether I know what I want to do than some random stranger on the internet.

You'd think, right?

	21-08-2005 08:43									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker College students are adults in every sense of the word. There's no reason to try and force judgement on them.

Wow, "force". you know, it is a pity asking some person paying 40,000 as year to go to an institution to maybe try to learn something brand new that they might have never considered for about 3 hours for 16 weeks. Yep, its like being in the Gulag or something. How Totalitarian....

	21-08-2005 08:44									#106
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kuci should do it his way - its genetic, he can't help it

	21-08-2005 08:47									#107
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Kuci is no different from the vast majority of kids now heading to college, sadly.

	21-08-2005 09:31									#108
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quote: Originally posted by GePap A true Liberal education forces the student to study a wide range of subject and exposes them to a great variety. That is one of the reasons I loved UofC and its extremely intensive core, because it forces everyone to explore all the different disciplines so they have at least a basic understanding. MOst collages don't do that- you go, you take the classes you are interested in, and your done.

Aren't you always required to have X number of credits from a variety of specific subjects/areas to get a diploma?

	21-08-2005 14:43									#109
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quote: Wow, "force". you know, it is a pity asking some person paying 40,000 as year to go to an institution to maybe try to learn something brand new that they might have never considered for about 3 hours for 16 weeks. Yep, its like being in the Gulag or something. How Totalitarian....

	21-08-2005 18:18									#110
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Your dad sounds like a nerd.

I'm a nerd.

	21-08-2005 18:47									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse you know those people you see on campus supporting radical left wing causes, protesting against globalisation etc.? They're the ones who end up captains of industry, CEO's and top government officials

A truer statement was never said.


The thing about those people is that they can see the issues from a complex perspective, decipher all the nuances, and put together a creative response to them.

Other people just get stuck in a rut, which is what these "job academy" colleges that we are talking about do to people.

The courses that didn't relate directly to my job function have enriched my life tremendously. The older and wiser you get, the more you realize how true this is.

	21-08-2005 20:00									#113
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Aren't you always required to have X number of credits from a variety of specific subjects/areas to get a diploma?

high school diploma, yes. We are talking about a degree.

	21-08-2005 21:00									#114
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quote: Originally posted by GePap high school diploma, yes. We are talking about a degree.

So was I

	21-08-2005 21:03									#115
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd So was I

Depends on the program at each university. Each degree has specific requirements that must be met, that does not mean those credits are always in any way interdisciplinary. I believe very few institutions make English majors take biology or calculus, and very few Physics majors are required to take humanities or art classes.

	21-08-2005 21:36									#116
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Engineering majors usually have the easiest time avoiding humanities classes because of their heavy courseload. My roomates never had to take anything beyond introductory English and the occasional humanities/social science class. It's a crying shame because engineers are some of the most godawful writers.

	21-08-2005 22:00									#117
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yep. I am a technical university student, and if you don't want to, you can have no humanities courses whatsoever. Well except English.

	21-08-2005 22:03									#118
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I took all sorts of out of physics classes (although, I admit pretty close to the bare minimum)

I took things like ballet, and philosophy, and an economics course, and a lit appreciation course, and more..

of course, I have a BA

JM

	21-08-2005 22:10									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Anyway, how is more choice in the curriculum ruining things for anyone? If you want to take a solid liberal arts education, choose those classes.

Because the purpose of that liberal arts education is to make you a well rounded citizen, as opposed to a hick who votes for a politician based on image, believes that Saddam ordered 9/11, and thinks that the Earth is only 6000 years old and that evolutionary biologists are agents of the devil.

	21-08-2005 22:13									#120
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Right