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Sandman
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Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Okay. in fall of 2004, while the Shiite south was under govt control, and the fall of Baghdad was no longer imminent, Fallujah, the second largest city in Anbar province was under insurgeny control, and control of Ramadi the largest city and provincial capital was contested. Large parts of Samarra and Mosul were "no go" zones, as were most sunni areas in Baghdad, esp the Haifa street district. Was Haditha in govt control then? I dont remember - with Fallujah in insurgent control, and Ramadi and Samarra contested, i dont think anyone was even talking about places like Haditha.
Today Haifa street in Baghdad, and Mosul, are controlled by Iraqi forces. Fallujah is being reconstructed, and is the site of Sunni arabs registering to vote. While there is still an insurgent presence in Ramadi, it is far from controlling the city. |
Coalition deaths have been almost as high this year as 2004, and much higher than 2003. And that's not even counting Iraqi forces deaths. I was wrong about April 2004 being the worst month of the war, incidently. That honour goes to November of the same year.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
What replaced Pax Romanum?
My only wish is that those who yearn for the decline could be left alone to feel the effects. Unfortunately, that's not how it's gonna work. |
What Pax Romanun? You mean the few centuries when the Empire wasn't bloodily expanding?Or the times it wasn't at war with the Parthians? or not crushing some internal revolt?
But of course comparisons to the Pax Romanun are irrelevant as the US does not have anywhere near the relative power of Rome at that point. The uS has , nor can;t, in any way enforce peace worldwide.
The only question here is the LOCAL power balance in the ME, and it was the US invasion that threw that up in the air. AND THAT WAS THE US GOAL!
See, that the thing, you can;t possibly be arguing for the war based on a notion of stability, since the whole point of the war was from day one to throw the entire area into turmoil, with the theory being that the US, being so powerful, could then shape the situation to its liking, and make for itself a better, more US friendly, ME. In invading Iraq, and making it our nice example of how great we were, Syria and Iran were to crumble, and then our repressive Saudi and Egyptian allies would follow, and in the end, the uS would get all the oil and no terrorist...how simplistic.
What is going on is that the neo-conservative notion of the power of US military power has been discredited, and now the uS, having intentionally sought chaos, now finds itself increasingly powerless to shape the outcome according to it whishes.
So you want to know about your "Pax Romanun" Then e-mail the chimp in chief and ask why he wanted to end it.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
See, that the thing, you can;t possibly be arguing for the war based on a notion of stability, since the whole point of the war was from day one to throw the entire area into turmoil, with the theory being that the US, being so powerful, could then shape the situation to its liking, and make for itself a better, more US friendly, ME.
What is going on is that the neo-conservative notion of the power of US military power has been discredited, and now the uS, having intentionally sought chaos, now finds itself increasingly powerless to shape the outcome according to it whishes.
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The concept of 'Creative Destruction' might thrill the Cabal's chicken-hawk attendees of 'Black Coffee Briefings' but it was never properly defined or thought through, and it was never going to work.
The problem is that democracy works best, if at all, when home-grown. Attempts to impose it through the barrel of a gun upon a people with no historical development of democratic forces and principles can only end in tears.
Even if, somewhere down the road, Iraq 'stabilises' in some way, there's no guarantee that what ends up will be any better than what was before. The grotesque nature of the so-called 'resistance' may not be to the invaders design, but the occupying powers can't pretend that these forces are nothing to do with their actions.
I kind-of sympathise with people who are putting a brave face on the Iraq situation, even if I disagree with them on the whole principle of interventionism. I'd just stress my point that we cannot fix the world through projection of military power.
Thats not 'self-loathing' by the way. Opposition to misguided foreign adventures is very different to rolling over to the ideology of bearded fascists when they attack your own country.
Thanks 
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Apolyton Time is 00:37. |
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24-08-2005 11:51
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