12-09-2005 00:00									#451
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Stop relief supplies from reaching the people at the Superdome and Convention Center for one.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/08/ka...ross/index.html

She was also slow to use the National Guard to the area.

Last edited by DinoDoc on 12-09-2005 at 00:05

	12-09-2005 00:10									#452
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Stop relief supplies from reaching the people at the Superdome and Convention Center for one. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/08/ka...ross/index.html She was also slow to use the National Guard to the area.

That article doesn't mention Blanco, and it doesn't support your "thesis" upon actually reading it.

quote: Mayeaux, appearing at the news conference with Howell, said he had asked the Red Cross to wait 24 hours for conditions to be "set" for the operation. "To set up a feeding station to feed a large number of people, you need space. You need to escort the personnel into position. ... And we asked Mr. Howell, and he concurred, to wait 24 hours to go to set that in," Mayeaux said. By Saturday, however, the point became moot because the large-scale evacuation of the city was under way, Howell and Mayeaux said. "After that point in time ... their rescue operation was in full force, and they felt they had adequate supplies there to take care of it without (the Red Cross) being introduced into the situation," Howell said. "So we did not go directly into New Orleans." The National Guard began moving large quantities of food, water and ice into New Orleans and other damaged areas of southeast Louisiana on Wednesday, two days after the hurricane struck and a day before the Red Cross made its request to go in, Mayeaux said. The supplies were being delivered from Camp Beauregard, a National Guard base near Alexandria, 150 miles away, in the central part of the state. So far, 16.4 million pounds of ice, 14.2 million quarts of water and 7.9 million ready-to-eat meals have been distributed, Mayeaux said. In addition, food and water had also been stored before the storm at the Louisiana Superdome and other shelters, Mayeaux said. He added that guard troops also brought supplies. Mayeaux said that state officials did "push" supplies into the distribution pipeline before requests were made and did not wait for local officials to request them.

Now, as Time Magazine reported, Blanco was blindsided by the lack of Federal response, especially since FEMA's guidelings call for such a response in under 48 hours. But it was obvious nobody in the administration took it seriously:

quote: The day the storm hit, [Blanco] asked President Bush for "everything you've got." But almost nothing arrived, and she couldn't wait any longer. So she called the White House and demanded to speak to the President. George Bush could not be located, two Louisiana officials told Time, so she asked for chief of staff Andrew Card, who was also unavailable. Finally, after being passed to another office or two, she left a message with DHS adviser Frances Frago Townsend. She waited hours but had to make another call herself before she finally got Bush on the line. "Help is on the way," he told her.

	12-09-2005 00:12									#453
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And you say she was slow to get the National Guard there?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?...TC-RSSFeeds0312

quote: WASHINGTON Sep 3, 2005 — Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

You might not want to repeat wingnut talking points so quickly without verifying them.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509080001

quote: Fox News host Bill O'Reilly falsely claimed that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco "failed to ask for more [National Guard] troops from the feds, knowing she only had about 6,000 to control a city of 1.3 million" and that "[i]t was not until Wednesday, August 31st, three days after the storm hit, that Blanco admitted she didn't have enough security in the city." But according to Department of Defense officials, Blanco and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour had requested additional Guard personnel before the storm hit.

	12-09-2005 00:33									#454
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That article doesn't mention Blanco,

It didn't have to or is Blanco not really in control of State agencies? I think the news reports from that time period speak to how much those supplies might have been needed.

quote: Now, as Time Magazine reported, Blanco was blindsided by the lack of Federal response

Why do you assume that I have some need to defend Bush? Failiure in this arena went up and down the line.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Hurricane...TC-RSSFeeds0312

	12-09-2005 00:56									#455
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It didn't have to or is Blanco not really in control of State agencies? I think the news reports from that time period speak to how much those supplies might have been needed.

Blanco wasn't the one making the decision, the article clearly states that. There's no reason to think the Governor would have had direct control over that particular aspect of the operation.

You seem to be missing the point of the article. The Red Cross was asked to wait 24 hours for logistics reasons, not rebuffed. But after that, the evacuation effort started, so the aid was a moot point.

Nothing there indicates a failure on the part of the state officials.

quote: Why do you assume that I have some need to defend Bush? Failiure in this arena went up and down the line.

Where did I say or even assume that's what you were doing? I was pointing out that Blanco's early efforts to get help were stymied by an unresponsive administration. More strawmen...

	12-09-2005 01:01									#456
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Where did I say or even assume that's what you were doing? I was pointing out that Blanco's early efforts to get help were stymied by an unresponsive administration. More strawmen...

From the article I posted:

quote: There's no question the federal government plays a major role in disaster relief. But federal officials say in order to get involved, they must first be asked to do so by state officials. As one FEMA official told ABC News, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco failed to submit a request for help in a timely manner. Shortly before Katrina hit, she sent President Bush a request asking for shelter and provisions, but didn't specifically ask for help with evacuations. One aide to the governor told ABC News today Blanco thought city officials were taking care of the evacuation.

	12-09-2005 09:26									#457
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"failing to submit a request in a timeley manner."

That illustrated the EXACT ****ing problem with this whole thing. This isn't a ****ing request to get access to the supply room.

It's a ****ing disaster where alot of people have died.

****ing submit in a timely manner

I know what that line means and that means someone is using policy and procedures (which are usually up for interpretation and should be thrown out the window in a crisis) to hide behind.

whatever

	13-09-2005 05:03									#458
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc From the article I posted:

Which utterly fails to note that by having Bush designate the area a disaster zone BEFORE it hit, all of that was ultimately the responsibility of the Federal Government. Blanco was under the impression that Bush would act on her requests and FEMA would get things done. I guess maybe she didn't realize that her request needed to be in triplicate and go through 3 days of bureaucracy before anyone would do something about it when the President of the United States had promised her immediate aid.

	13-09-2005 06:07									#459
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quote: That illustrated the EXACT ****ing problem with this whole thing. This isn't a ****ing request to get access to the supply room.

A year from now we can pull this out when all of you are *****ing about the fraud and waist because Bush did not follow the tried and proven guidlines for spending federal money and resources.

Though I agree with you that red tape should be bypassed for such events, and the military and quite a few other agencies did just that.

I also like how the DHS and the Coast Guard are somehow considered seperate entities in this thead. Apparently the Coast Gaurds on the spot response was not factored in when everyone was damning the department.

	13-09-2005 06:15									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos A year from now we can pull this out when all of you are *****ing about the fraud and waist because Bush did not follow the tried and proven guidlines for spending federal money and resources.

This is more of a conservative gripe than a liberal one. We accept that there's problably going to be fraud and waste as part of the equation, and if that's the price of saving lives, so be it. The opposite is so much worse, and why people call conservatism heartless.

	13-09-2005 06:18									#461
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Incompetence and a dysfunctional system aren't part of the liberal/conservative equation IMO.

	13-09-2005 06:23									#462
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quote: This is more of a conservative gripe than a liberal one.

If it gives you suposed ammuniton on Bush, it will become a liberal problem. Well, at least a Polyliberal problem.

	13-09-2005 06:59									#463
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I also like how the DHS and the Coast Guard are somehow considered seperate entities in this thead. Apparently the Coast Gaurds on the spot response was not factored in when everyone was damning the department.

DHS is nowhere near as integrated as other departments in the government.

What we ended up with was an organization with all the defects of both a democracy and a dictatorship, and the benefits of neither.

	13-09-2005 09:00									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos A year from now we can pull this out when all of you are *****ing about the fraud and waist because Bush did not follow the tried and proven guidlines for spending federal money and resources.

Tried and proven guidelines.

Like giving firefighters sexual harrassment training before letting them respond to a crisis.

Or are you referring to those great guidelines that gave billions to Haliburton without fair bidding and let them overbill the government left, right and center.

	13-09-2005 09:02									#465
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quote: Like giving firefighters sexual harrassment training before letting them respond to a crisis.

Which side of the aisle do you think that came from???

And of course if they didn't do that, you would be *****ing about that too.

	13-09-2005 09:04									#466
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Which side of the aisle do you think that came from???

Lawyers like Brown who are more concerned about lawsuits than helping people.

	13-09-2005 11:30									#467
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In other news, the new man appointed to head FEMA, David Paulison, is the same man who suggested two years ago that Americans should protect themselves with Duct Tape against chemical or biological attacks from terrorists!

quote: In another gesture symbolizing the continued confusion of the federal response, the man President Bush immediately named to succeed “Brownie,” proves to have been the same FEMA official who, two-and-a-half years ago, suggested that Americans stock up on duct tape to protect against a biological or chemical terrorist attack. David Paulison, then the government's Fire Administrator, joined with the then-head of Homeland Security Tom Ridge, on February 10th, 2003, to say that duct tape and plastic sheeting should be part of any home's "survival kit" in preparation for a terrorist attack. That set off a run on duct tape at stores, and widespread criticism of the administration. It might have been the first time after 9/11 that a large number of Americans wondered if the government really knew what it was talking about when it came to disaster preparedness. And the man behind that politically explosive proposal, has just been named to succeed the man who had been the face of the politically explosive response to Hurricane Katrina... But in light of the response to this hurricane, another comment he made at the time of the Duct Tape announcements rings especially loudly. Paulison said in February, 2003, that in the first 48 to 72 hours of an emergency, many Americans would likely have to look after themselves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8514671/

Its nice to know that FEMA is now entirely in able hands.

	13-09-2005 11:51									#468
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Incompetence and a dysfunctional system aren't part of the liberal/conservative equation IMO.

Word.

Some people have to think about EVERY situation in terms of liberal/conservative issues, them/us.

It gets really old. Most of these issues transcend that equation.

	13-09-2005 22:04									#469
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NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- President Bush on Tuesday said he takes responsibility for the federal government's failures in responding to Hurricane Katrina.

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government and to the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said during a joint news conference with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.

Bush said he wants to know what went right and what went wrong so that he can determine whether the United States was prepared for another storm, or an attack.

"I'm not going to defend the process going in, but I am going to defend the people who are on the front line of saving lives," Bush said.

Earlier in the day, the White House announced the president will address the nation Thursday night about recovery efforts in the Gulf Coast.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/ka...pact/index.html



Could the President actually be...admitting fault and growing up? Unbelievable. I give Bush props for taking responsibility for the situation. Seriously.

Though is this sincere or a response to poll numbers?

	13-09-2005 22:13									#470
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< pessimist >
Of course he takes responsibility...there's nothing that can be done to him in any case, so what's the harm in protecting the people he's appointed?
< /pessimist >

	13-09-2005 22:29									#471
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Yeah, that whole, "blame the process not the people" is practical, but I doubt the sincerity of it especially after he let go Mister Brown, and in this case, certain people DO need to be held accountable.

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of job."

	14-09-2005 00:19									#472
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quote: to say that duct tape and plastic sheeting should be part of any home's "survival kit" in preparation for a terrorist attack.

That is an excellent idea, will protect against all kinds of things, though not the most deadly. Not to mention it is useful for all sorts of other things, like say, a big ****ing hurricane blowing out all your windows.

Or we can purchase every American a full exposure suit. Which sounds more practical?

	14-09-2005 00:21									#473
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quote: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of job."

Being a leader 101:

Praise in public, ***** slap in private, and never undermine someone in front of subordinates. Tried an proven.

Maybe when your a leader one day, you will understand.

	14-09-2005 00:48									#474
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Ted, you will note that he said.
"I'm not going to defend the process going in, but I am going to defend the people who are on the front line of saving lives," Bush said.

Mr. Brown was not on the front line saving lives.

	14-09-2005 01:29									#475
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Being a leader 101: Praise in public, ***** slap in private, and never undermine someone in front of subordinates. Tried an proven. Maybe when your a leader one day, you will understand.

Except you praise someone when they deserve praise.

Rule #1 of Leadership:

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

To come out in front of the entire nation and proclaim what a great leader he was, and then can the guy a couple of days later, says his words were nothing other than shallow.

Had he actually followed your rule, he would have backed up his man in private the same way he did in public.

Maybe someday when you're a leader, you will understand.

	14-09-2005 01:32									#476
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Ted Striker

	14-09-2005 01:42									#477
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos That is an excellent idea, will protect against all kinds of things, though not the most deadly. Not to mention it is useful for all sorts of other things, like say, a big ****ing hurricane blowing out all your windows. Or we can purchase every American a full exposure suit. Which sounds more practical?

Yeah, we'll call it 'Duct and Cover'!

	14-09-2005 02:49									#478
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker "Brownie, you're doing a heck of job."

I saw that

	14-09-2005 03:21									#479
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Taking responsibility

	14-09-2005 03:31									#480
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Brown managed to save all the Arabian horses