19-09-2005 01:41									#61
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quote: Originally posted by siron "Well Afghanistan, but what's in a name?" We always supported war against terror. But not wars to generate terror like in iraq. So whats your point.

A party that has the gall to come up with campaign poster like this is my point

That's a low blow by the SPD

	19-09-2005 01:43									#62
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Campaign poster

SPD

CDU

"Schwampel"

	19-09-2005 01:43									#63
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I voted SPD with both votes BTW

	19-09-2005 01:46									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthy I voted SPD with both votes BTW

Good for you.

	19-09-2005 01:48									#65
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Well. That was one crazy east german on regional level in his Landkreis.

Some guys in some landkreisen were simply crazy this time. Like CDU langenhangen:



Left: i vote again spd.
right: I dont care for future either. I have cancer.

	19-09-2005 01:50									#66
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Cap, as I see all you want to do is produce pseudo-intellectual comments. This is the thread on the German election and posts by German voters are the most wanted here. Yours are rather insignificant. Bye.

	19-09-2005 02:13									#67
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Hey Ecthy, good choice @ votes (did the very same).

So that´s two out of two East Germans, that should make 100% SPD in the East... Strangely the elections don´t reflect that... So they´re clearly not representative, ergo they´re corrupted!

reelections!

	19-09-2005 02:14									#68
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You get two votes?

	19-09-2005 02:15									#69
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Map

	19-09-2005 02:18									#70
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Ozzy, our parliament starts off with 598 seats in calculation. 299 of them are distributed by the "first vote" or vote for the direct candidate. Those run like the MP candidates in the UK, one for each district. The second vote, however, is more important to calculate the ration of seats to be given to parties. So if the SPD gets 40% of 2nd votes, they get 40% of 598 seats. If, however, they win more than 40% of 299 direct seats, they get some extra. If you want a really complete calculation of this, I shall recommend some political comparative analyst writing to you. It isn't all that complicated really...

	19-09-2005 02:19									#71
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Actually, I voted the Greens before.
But this time both votes for Gerhard.

Here is now a map with most results:

http://www.spiegel.de/flash/0,5532,11719,00.html

	19-09-2005 02:20									#72
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The lady I did the intern job for has it

(Andrea Wicklein SPD, Potsdam)

The direct seat for Kreuzberg Friedrichshain still isn't decided. Must be hell close between SPD/Greens/Lefties.

	19-09-2005 02:23									#73
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Hehe.

von Bismarck (CDU) won here.

	19-09-2005 02:28									#74
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http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...,372447,00.html

There's a flash map on the right, only with majorities in districts though, so it's red and blue only.

	19-09-2005 02:34									#75
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This is what vienase paper die Presse wrote about the german elections:

quote: Ein Wahlresultat als Spiegel der deutschen Seele: im Zwiespalt zwischen Reformwünschen und nackter Angst. Es ist bei weitem nicht der Wahltriumph geworden, den sich die Union erhofft hat. Bei weitem nicht. Deutschland hat bei dieser Bundestagswahl alles andere als ein deutliches Signal für einen politischen Wechsel gegeben, sondern seiner notorischen Zwiespältigkeit Ausdruck verliehen. Zwei Seelen wohnen in der deutschen Brust, und sie sind unselig ineinander verhakt: Die eine drängt auf Reformen, die andere sträubt sich ängstlich gegen jede Veränderung. Das Ergebnis der zwiespältigen Gefühlslage ist seit Jahren der Stillstand.

Summary:
Germany has not shown a clear sign for a political change, rather expressed its own ambiguity. A voting result as mirror of the german soul, on the one hand the wish for reforms and on the other hand the fear for it. The result of these ambiguous feelings is what we were seeing all the years: stagnation.

	19-09-2005 02:36									#76
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http://www.wahlrecht.de/

23:20 Uhr - Überhangprognose von Infratest-dimap

(wz) Die TV-Anstalten bzw. Meinungsforschungsinstitute haben dazugelernt und behandeln die Frage der Überhangmandate nicht mehr so stiefmütterlich wie bei den letzten Wahlen. Infratest-dimap sagt 9 Überhangmandate für die SPD (3 in Brandenburg, 4 in Sachsen-Anhalt, 1 in Hamburg, 1 in Saarland) und 5 für die CDU (2 in Sachsen, 3 in Baden-Württemberg). Dies entspricht in etwa auch unseren Berechnungen, wobei in Dresden noch ein weiteres CDU-Überhangmandat hinzukommen kann. Es erscheint im Augenblick also sehr unwahrscheinlich, daß die SPD noch stärkste Fraktion werden könnte.

Sounds difficult for Schroeder now.

	19-09-2005 02:39									#77
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Der Gerhard has claimed victory as the CDU/CSU are two parties, making the SPD the biggest

	19-09-2005 02:41									#78
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quote: The result of these ambiguous feelings is what we were seeing all the years: stagnation.

Didn't stagnation start EXACTLY with the integration of East Germany?

For me the solution is obvious, ditch it and become the European motor of growth again

	19-09-2005 02:53									#79
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quote: Didn't stagnation start EXACTLY with the integration of East Germany? For me the solution is obvious, ditch it...

Well. Pssst. Too many east germans here. But we had a party with such a program:

http://www.die-partei.de/index.php?...nt&content_id=1

Neugliederung des Bundesgebietes


Die Neugliederung des Bundesgebietes ist der einzige Fall, in dem das Grundgesetz (Artikel 29) einen Volksentscheid vorsieht. Wir streben die Verringerung der Anzahl der Bundesländer auf maximal acht durch einen solchen Volksentscheid an. Die fünf Länder Thüringen, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Branden­burg und Mecklenburg-Vorpommern sollen dabei zu einem starken Ost-Bundesland zusammengefaßt werden. Um wirtschaftliche Impulse zu erzeugen, soll dieses neue, starke Bundesland eine Sonderbewirtschaftungszone (SBZ) bilden. Niedrige Steuersätze, flexible arbeitsrechtliche Regelungen und eine entbürokratisierte und gestraffte Verwaltung sollen den Aufschwung vorantreiben.


Diese Sonderbewirtschaftungszone (SBZ) soll auch baulich vom Rest der Bundesrepublik getrennt werden. Auf diese Weise soll unserer modernen, fortschrittlichen und zukunftsweisenden Idee einer solchen Zone Nachdruck verliehen werden.

	19-09-2005 02:59									#80
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"Baulich getrennt"

	19-09-2005 03:03									#81
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I wasn't really serious and I know it can't happen - national unity is not something that can be argued about.

BUT, can someone tell me did German growth start to lag with the integration -- is that premise correct? I know over 1000 billion DM have been spent to improve the East, but I don't know was it that fact that had the biggest impact, or was it something else.

If someone can point me to a site/article that examines this "point of divergence" of German economy, I'd appreciate it.

	19-09-2005 03:04									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthy http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...,372447,00.html There's a flash map on the right, only with majorities in districts though, so it's red and blue only.

Thanks! It's very nice.

	19-09-2005 03:07									#83
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion quote: The result of these ambiguous feelings is what we were seeing all the years: stagnation. Didn't stagnation start EXACTLY with the integration of East Germany? For me the solution is obvious, ditch it and become the European motor of growth again

No. It started several years afterwards, following a post-unification boom and the subsequent burst of a real-estate bubble.

	19-09-2005 03:09									#84
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Vet - it is somewhat true, although there was a Europe-wide recession in the early nineties that Germany didn't see, due to the expansion of the domestic market etc.. I think the East should receive less financial aid - it already receives more money from the west than the west gains in pure growth, ie the total economy of the west loses money in "favour" of the East, which doesn't really grow.

	19-09-2005 03:18									#85
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Dutch media report the election might only be resolved through a postponed ballot in Dresden, as SPD and CSU/CSU might get the same number of seats.

3 seats for parliament are up for grabs in Dresden, where a candidate died before elections took place, and thus ballots needed to be reprinted before voting could commence. The vote there will be in a week or so...

	19-09-2005 03:23									#86
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"I wasn't really serious "

The Partei isnt serious either. It was founded by this magazine here:

http://www.titanic-magazin.de/shop/

	19-09-2005 03:26									#87
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Well. Dunno if dresden will matter.

Seems that merkel will get some trouble to control her party after this poor result.

When someone is able to replace merkel he might offer Schroeder the lead the government (even if they are some seats ahead).

The CDU controls the Bundesrat anyway.

	19-09-2005 03:33									#88
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quote: It´s easy to say "Schröder messed up the economy", but in fact the Conservatives have ruled for 16 years before Schröder and left many problems for him to solve.

And he has proven particularly incapable of solving them. Y'all deserve Schroeder.

	19-09-2005 04:00									#89
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I don´t think the current problems are solvable at all without dismantling the foundations of the economic system. Also, it´s not all that bad. In fact we still have the strongest European economy and things start looking brighter now.

Why so harsh, Mr. Dan?

	19-09-2005 04:31									#90
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who did the catholic bavarians favor?