17-04-2003 20:15									#1081
	Got spare money?

Actually he decided he's leaving all his games except for the Imperialism 1870 game at CFC, and 'maybe' except for the AoW game there. We're going to need a replacement... again.

	18-04-2003 07:02									#1083
	Got spare money?

why doesn't whoever's allied to SunTzu's civ just take over temporarily at least.

Nice to see a signature by the greatest guy in history Case .

	20-04-2003 02:08									#1084
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BUMP for Sun Tzu.

	20-04-2003 03:21									#1085
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yeah, thank god Henrik emailed me, thought this pbem is dead, haven't gotten an email notifications from poly in a long time

	20-04-2003 03:26									#1086
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Ok, we have a problem, i opened the file, and it seems that Spain has declared war on turkey, italy and yugoslavia......is this correct on spains part? or a mistake?

	20-04-2003 03:35									#1087
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i'm gonna have to wait to get an answer about Spains declaration of war on the Mediterranean League, also i'd like the removal of the british naval ships by Gallipoli, there are atleast 5 ships there blocking the passage. The war with russia is over, so move your ships so merchant ships can pass through.
Also i'm reinforcing my position that no military ships can pass through the Dardanelles Strait, unless of course given permission by the Turkish Government

	20-04-2003 04:27									#1088
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quote: Ok, we have a problem, i opened the file, and it seems that Spain has declared war on turkey, italy and yugoslavia......is this correct on spains part? or a mistake?

It happened ages ago - as requested by Henrik I destroyed a rail line linking Spain with the South of France. However, the stuipid AI considered this to be an act of war and the med league declared war on me. I asked you guys to make peace with me several months ago but no-one has bothered doing so.

	20-04-2003 04:29									#1089
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alright, cool i'll make peace :-D

	20-04-2003 04:31									#1090
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Game on

Attachment: 1907jan.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	20-04-2003 11:53									#1091
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Case I did try several times but your AI wouldnt have it

	20-04-2003 12:06									#1092
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i was able to make peace. they were receptive towards me

	20-04-2003 14:20									#1093
	European Council? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Josip Chokov, Henriko Lohmandero and Abdul Sun Tzu the elected leaders of the states constituting the mediterenean emerged today after a one week long meeting int he specially constructed Mediterenean Council buidlign in Rome. These meetings have now been decided to be schedueled on a regular basis rather than summoned when needed in the future. While no details where given it is clear that many common Mediterenean policies where decided upon this week.

Seemingly an effect of this President Lohmandero has made an acording to some radical suggestion to the european diplomatic comunity.

"The league would like to suggest the creation of a European council based in Zurich or Geneva, the role of this council will be to decide upon common european policies and to mediate in european conflicts. A nation will have as many votes as it has provinces (cities).
This would currently mean that the votes would be divided like this:
Germany: 65
Brittain: 49
Russia: 42
Turkey: 35
Italy: 30
Jugoslavia: 18
Spain: 15

Possibly concensus or atleast 2/3s majority would be needed for some major decisions.

The presidents all voiced great optimism about the other rulers of Europe accepting this suggestion."

	20-04-2003 14:28									#1094
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As said in private correspondence, the CEU supports the creation of such a council, although Europe should come to a consensus on just what authority it should have.

It's our position that all votes on diplomatic matters should only need a 51% majority. However, the powers allotted to the council must be agreed to by a 100% consensus upon its creation, and written down in a formal constitution. Any amendments to this constitution, or additions of new powers, must also have a unanimous vote.

Last edited by Darius871 on 21-04-2003 at 05:57

	20-04-2003 14:30									#1095
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Though not having consulted with her allies yet Italy supports this addition.

	21-04-2003 00:04									#1096
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Jugoslavija supports that addition as well.

	21-04-2003 08:43									#1097
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quote: Originally posted by Darius871 As said in private correspondence, the CEU supports the creation of such a council, although Europe should come to a consensus on just what authority it should have.

Before agreeing to anything, Russia must first see what authority the council would be given.

quote: It's our position that all votes on diplomatic matters should only need a 51% majority.

of course you would, the Democratic Alliance holds more than 50% of the votes in council

quote: However, the powers allotted to the council must be agreed to by a 100% consensus upon its creation, and written down in a formal constitution.

Russia remains supsicous of any format which would give either Alliance power over the rest of Europe.

	21-04-2003 08:47									#1098
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I think a European Council is a good idea, but to pass anything you need 2/3rds of the vote.
That is the stance of Turkey

	21-04-2003 10:13									#1099
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Jugoslavija proposes that each major power gets 2 votes and each remaining country 1 vote, so the voting structure would be this:

Germany: 2
Britain: 2
Russia: 2
Italy: 1
Turkey: 1
Jugoslavija: 1
Spain: 1

	21-04-2003 10:18									#1100
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Turkey backs the new jugoslav plan

	21-04-2003 11:22									#1101
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I must say I prefer the old plan better (with the 2/3s majority), but I am willing to agree with the 2&1 vote system as well if it can get both Russia and Germany's acceptance.

	21-04-2003 11:55									#1102
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik if it can get both Russia and Germany's acceptance.

Of course it won't; Germany already compromised with having one vote per city, as an agrarian village in Turkey or Russia would have as much influence as Paris or Berlin. The CEU will not be limited even further.

	21-04-2003 12:20									#1103
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Darius, this doesn't limit you further. It give you the same power as Britain and Russia...quit whining.

	21-04-2003 12:23									#1104
	This is what Italy suggests: Put an end to popups!

Germany: 65
Brittain: 49
Russia: 42
Turkey: 35
Italy: 30
Jugoslavia: 18
Spain: 15

Atleast 2/3s majority would be needed for some major decisions.
Concensus needed when amending the authority of the council.

What makes you think the democratic alliance will allways vote as a block (which btw of late hasn't seemed that solid, as I recall Jmarks was in the proces of disolving it or rather reshape it into something else)?
And if they do so, that will be enough to overrule Russia alone, but they still won't be able to pull anything dangerous or dammaging off as that most likely wouldn't be appreciated by the other voters (ie. the med. nations) and 2/3s majority wouldn't be achieved.

Propositions from the league to the would be council from us med. countries involve:

• "The be or be not of tariffs"
  
• "Defence measures about railroads, these have proved devestating to a country's defences should we reach an agreement to abolish them? (if so the rules could be amended to make normal roads slightly bettter)"
  
• "The possibility of european tech trading deals."
  
• "The granting of the ability to invoke sanctions on warring european nations by the council."
  

	21-04-2003 19:58									#1105
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I like the original plan best, but not with the 51% majority, but with 2/3rds, i could compromise with 60% of votes to pass something

	21-04-2003 20:10									#1106
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quote: Originally posted by Choke Darius, this doesn't limit you further. It give you the same power as Britain and Russia...

So what? No offense to Spain or Turkey, but one of them should not have precisely half the voting power of the CEU. It's not representative. Giving a 3-citizen city as much power as a 18-citizen city already limits German and British influence, but I was willing to compromise on that. Your proposal is going too far.

The only thing close that Germany would accept would be a bicameral council similar to the congress of the United States, where there would be a house based on population (loosely defined by number of cities), and one house where each nation either has 1 or 2 votes. Would you be willing to settle for a bicameral system?

quote: Originally posted by Choke quit whining.

Way to go there Talleyrand, that'll change my mind.

	21-04-2003 21:10									#1107
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A bicameral system is fine with me.

	24-04-2003 05:33									#1108
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woah, I didn't know how much trouble I would stir up by being cautious of the straight city votes. Although I am close to backing down on that, diplomatic contact by courrier with other nations during the worldwide electrical blackout has reduced much of Russia's fears. I'm sure a compromise much closer to the original could be achieved

	24-04-2003 10:30									#1109
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Ok then after talking to both Germany and Russia again this is what I suggest:

One vote per city.
(The list of who gets how many votes is on the previous page)
2/3s majority will be required.
A set amount of discussion will take place after a proposition has been laid before the vote (my suggestion is that everyone gets to post their view and the originator of the proposition gets to coment and then the vote is held. Either that or we simply say 3 days or something like that).

Is this acceptable to Russia and Germany? (where's brittain? )

	24-04-2003 10:39									#1110
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fine by me