16-09-2001 21:14									#61
	Support Apolyton

Attached is a zip file containing an MS Word document of all the knowledge contained in this thread.

Edit: Version 1.1 is now attached (oct 4)

Attachment: combat11.zip
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

Last edited by Marquis de Sodaq on 05-10-2001 at 09:18

	16-09-2001 21:17									#62
	Increase Your PM Length

And in rich text format...

Edit: Version 1.1 is now attached (oct 4)

Attachment: combat_rtf.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

Last edited by Marquis de Sodaq on 05-10-2001 at 09:19

	17-09-2001 20:13									#63
	Re: Post 46 (post 52) Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan or the square has the airbase improvement built on it.

This has been added. Thanks for noticing that is was missing!

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan Ground units with the Fighter Flag can attack air units... Sea units with the Fighter Flag can attack air units... Any sea domain unit with the AEGIS Flag gains these bonuses.

I've left out many possible situations that diverge from the standard rules. The flags from rules.txt are explained in sec. 3.
(edited)

	17-09-2001 22:50									#64
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A quick test resolved the SAM & SDI issue

http://coc.apolyton.net/images/temp/sam&sdi.gif

Last edited by William Keenan on 18-09-2001 at 02:23

	17-09-2001 23:45									#65
	Increase Your PM Length

SDI+SAM=Quad Strength

This Link Works for me

	18-09-2001 05:27									#66
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SDI doubles defense against missile units.
SDI and SAM combine to quadrurple defence againts missile units.
Fighters do NOT scramble to defend against missles.

	04-10-2001 03:41									#67
	Post 56 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Marquis,

I attach the file with my remaining notes that I picked from both Info: combat threads (Civ2: Strategy and Civ2: General).
(I have an old version of MSOffice and so I use a rtf format)

My sugestions are red, you may ignore blue text (I want to verify or test it in the future).

You should publish in the start of the thread that the newest version is attached to some recent post (I suppose you don't want to preserve two versions- the attached file and the starting posts).

Edit: this attachment wasn't changed. The reply to combat version 1.1 is in post 64

Attachment: combat 2.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

Last edited by SlowThinker on 06-10-2001 at 15:35

	05-10-2001 01:42									#68
	post 57 Increase Your PM Length

In the point 1f of my combat 2.rtf the word "bomber?" should be omitted. I forgot to delete it.

	05-10-2001 01:43									#69
	post 58 Got spare money?

I verified missiles:

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan in post 46 Additionally, units in a city with the SDI improvement gain a +50% defensive bonus against missile attacks.

This is false (2x defense is right).

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan in post 55 SDI doubles defense against missile units. SDI and SAM combine to quadrurple defence againts missile units. Fighters do NOT scramble to defend against missles.

This is true.
To be unexpurgated SAM itself doubles the defense strength against missiles.

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan Units with the fighter flag do not gain the defensive bonus from the SAM improvement.

I examined it with missiles now:
The statement is valid for non-missiles only.

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan in post 46 Can attack air units (fighter flag): Allows a unit of any domain to attack air units.

No, this is not correct.
The fighter flag allows a unit of any domain to attack bombers.

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan in post 46 A unit of any domain with the fighter flag stationed in a city that is attacked by any unit with an air domain scrambles, gaining a +300% defense bonus.

The fighter must be an air unit (See my post 40).
The Civ message claims that the fighter scrambles, but it is false in this case.

	05-10-2001 09:22									#70
	post 59 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ST, I've updated the document to version 1.1, incorporating your and others' comments. It is in the posts at the top of this page (3). I plan to submit it to MarkG for addition to the Apolyton collection. You ought to do the same with the Diplo/Spy thread. I'll send it over to Civfanatics, too.

	05-10-2001 19:28									#71
	Re: post 58 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan in post 46 Can attack air units (fighter flag): Allows a unit of any domain to attack air units.

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker No, this is not correct. The fighter flag allows a unit of any domain to attack bombers.

I agree with all of SlowThinker's findings except this one. Units can attack fighters but do not normally get the opportunity to do so because of movement rules, which has nothing to do with the flag itself.

	05-10-2001 20:14									#72
	post 61 Got spare money?

I attach new comments. Completely new suggestions are in yellow. I keep old suggestion that were not included: please explain your reasons. Especially for "can attack air" flag.

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq I plan to submit it to MarkG for addition to the Apolyton collection.

I have a feeling there are not links but full documents... You wan't be able to edit it.

	05-10-2001 20:15									#73
	post 62 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"Bombers" (i.e. units that can by attacked by fighters only) are air units with range>1.

Some additions to section 5 (a new Attacking cities section?):

A city can be captured (OK, sacked ) if there is no enemy unit inside (including units with 0 defense). Only following units can do it:
1) any ground unit except a Dip/Spy and a Caravan/Freight
2) any air unit with range 0 (helicopters)
The unit may capture from both ground and sea squares.

City improvements are divided into three groups:
Group A: Temple, Courthouse, Cathedral, Hydro Plant.
Group B: Barracks, Library, City Walls, Bank, University, Colosseum, Manufacturing Plant, Recycling Center, Stock Exchange, Supermarket, Research Lab, Coastal Fortress, Harbor, Airport, Port Facility.
Group C: Granary, MarketPlace, Aqueduct, Mass Transit, Factory, SDI Defense, Power Plant, Nuclear Plant, Sewer System, Superhighways, SAM Missile Battery, Solar Plant, Offshore Platform, Police Station.
(It looks that items in group A are choosed firmly and group B and C holds remaining improvement from even resp. odd lines of rules.txt)

Subverting a city preserves all improvements.
Inciting a revolt causes a disappearance of group A.
Capturing by force causes a disappearance of group A and just one of group B or C (there is a 50% chance for a group to be selected)

The following effect is equal for both bribing and taking by force:
After succesfull capture of a city, the civ that agressor gets a part of treasure of the civ that was sacked as a spoil and chooses one enemy's advance. The formula for amount of gold taken as a plunder is here

Edited: link
Edited: only air units with range 0 (helicopters) can capture a city.

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-11-2001 at 04:39

	05-10-2001 20:53									#74
	post 63 Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan I agree with all of SlowThinker's findings except this one. Units can attack fighters but do not normally get the opportunity to do so because of movement rules, which has nothing to do with the flag itself.

"Bombers" are units with range>1.
Air units with range 0 (helicopters) can be easily attacked.
Air units with range 1 (fighters) can be attacked on airbases, cities or and I suppose also on normal land (after a city was "disbanded")

	05-10-2001 21:00									#75
	Re: post 61 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I attach new comments. Completely new suggestions are in yellow.

I forgot to attach the file...
It is here:

	08-10-2001 03:34									#76
	post 65 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

There was my error in the post 62: only air units with range 0 (helicopters) can capture a city.

	09-10-2001 07:20									#77
	post 66 Put an end to popups!

My, my five downloads of your comments! Here is my response...

Attachment: c11response.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	10-10-2001 07:26									#78
	post 67 Enter the AD-FREE zone

ST, your posts 18 and 19 have been accounted for in the recent updates of this thread. Or they are currently being handled in this latest exchange of text.

I've updated the main posts to reflect changes currently being clarified with ST. I think it's better to have it current (to at least a draft form) than a version that is obsolete... More updates may follow soon.

	11-10-2001 03:04									#79
	post 68 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

the answer to Combat 11 ST response.rtf (post 66) is attached

Attachment: combat 11 1010(date) st(author).zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	21-10-2001 00:13									#80
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Boco's "Combat calculator" in HS-Scenario League:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=25493

A copy from the thread:

quote: Originally posted by Boco 1) The program calculates the probability of the attacker's success 2) It also calculates the average injury expected per single eliminated opponent. 3) There a number checkboxes to activate the myriad of modifiers discussed in the thread. 4) Unit values can be entered manually or read from the Rules.txt of your choice.

	15-11-2001 13:14									#81
	Remove this text

Some questions that I have that might be nice to highlight in the basic text (after answers) as they are common questions/misconceptions.

1. Does the pikeman bonus work against howies?
2. Do fortresses work against howies?
3. Do fortresses work against air or naval attackers.

Thanks and great work...

	15-11-2001 20:44									#82
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by GP 1. Does the pikeman bonus work against howies? 2. Do fortresses work against howies? 3. Do fortresses work against air or naval attackers.

The answers are in the download document, but I'd not updated the thread with the answer to your last question! (edit: the thread is now updated to match the document, available in the first post of page 3). The answers:

1) NO, only against units with movement=2
2) YES
3) Not against an attack by an air unit, yes against naval attackers. Only land units gain the defensive bonus, tho.

	15-11-2001 21:38									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

GP,
IIRC the fortress work against naval but nor air units (or reversely). Anyway the fortification works against all units, city walls against land only, and the fortress is between a fortification and a walls.
Marquis is rebuilding the text now, this is not a final version. Or the sentence about naval/air attacking fortress was lost during some update.

Edit: out of date, I was too slow

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-11-2001 at 01:05

	15-11-2001 23:49									#84
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq The answers are in the download document, but I'd not updated the thread with the answer to your last question! (edit: the thread is now updated to match the document, available in the first post of page 3). The answers: 1) NO, only against units with movement=2, hp=1, fp=1 2) YES 3) Not against an attack by an air unit, yes against naval attackers. Only land units gain the defensive bonus, tho.

1. Thanks for the response.

2. I didn't look at the download document. I advise making the summary text include these things. Other people are lazy readers too. I'd also add in Slowhand's table.

	15-11-2001 23:52									#85
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq 1) NO, only against units with movement=2, hp=1, fp=1

Does this exclude any other MP=2 units other than the howitzer? Is it possible that the game really just gives pikeman bonus to MP=2 and uses the howitzer flag to superced that? Have you tried editing HP and FP to check this mechanism?

	16-11-2001 00:10									#86
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have had a recent disagreement with another civer in Civ3 thread. He claims that the computer gets a combat "cheat" bonus at deity level. I claim he's wrong. I appealled to you as authorities. Could you please answer the question here and on the other thread?

This would also make a good addition to the myth section.

	16-11-2001 00:16									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Same issue as above but with problem that my antogonist claims that the "last defender" in the city gets a cheat from the computer.

Please help slay myths...

	16-11-2001 00:25									#88
	more stuff Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

2 more things to add for completeness:

-how Cheiftan makes the combat easier. At minimum a statement. Better yet a formula.

-How the barbarian can't take your capitol or first city or something of that sort. (can't remember exactly but you know what I mean...)

	16-11-2001 00:45									#89
	Re: post 62 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker A city can be captured (OK, sacked ) if there is no enemy unit inside (including units with 0 defense). Any ground unit except a Dip/Spy and a Caravan/Freight or air units with range 0 (helicopters) can do it. The unit may capture from both ground and sea squares.

Are there any differences in AI and player units in terms of occupying cities? I seem to remember the AI being able to use settlers to take over my cities, but I thought I couldn't.

Also your "and", "or" logic chain is not clear to me. Can the helicopter take cities?

	16-11-2001 04:23									#90
	Re: more stuff Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by GP 2. I didn't look at the download document. I advise making the summary text include these things. Other people are lazy readers too. I'd also add in Slowhand's table.

You mean SlowThinker's?

quote: Originally posted by GP -how Cheiftan makes the combat easier. At minimum a statement. Better yet a formula. Are there any differences in AI and player units in terms of occupying cities? I seem to remember the AI being able to use settlers to take over my cities, but I thought I couldn't.

I know nothing about this...

quote: Originally posted by GP Also your "and", "or" logic chain is not clear to me. Can the helicopter take cities?

Thank you. I edited the post now.