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Chris_Nightwing
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England
Aug 2001
time: 05:15
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That picture of a 'phalanx' that someone linked to on apolyton isn't! It looks to me like the aztec unit, probably a variation on swordsman or spearman.
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Jusbaummer
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They have screenshots of units in here apolyton too, but they seem to have Arab and Mongol special units too, and neither of the civs is in the game...?
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:15
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firaxis just revealed a new CSU, the chinese Rider unit, it replaces the kinght for the chinese and is available with Chivalry. the Rider has impressive stats gaining a +1 to both defense and movement bringing its stats to 4.4.3, so the chinese will have a great defender and a powerful attacker because of it's high movement. from what we have seen it appears that the french CSU the musketeer (which is in the middle ages also) will only be 3.4.1, however we do not know about hitpoints, firepower, or cost of the units, so the musketeer might be a better all around unit. it appears that the chinese will be a tough opponent in the early midgame. if the chinese can secure the special resources they need i can easily see chinese players launching a midgame blitzkrieg which although the Rider might not be strong enough to dislodge well fortified troops thee extra movement points for the Rider will allow it to cause havok on an opponent's road system and there for their unit production, happiness, and trade
Last edited by korn469 on 01-09-2001 at 11:52
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Alfonsus72
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Doesn´t phalanx and hoplites need Bronze?
And musketeers powder?
As far as I know, Bronze could be a resource. I´ve never seen powder in any resource list.
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Alfonsus72
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quote:
Originally posted by korn469
so it looks like civ3 will have either the same amount or one new military units, and five less non military units, for a net loss of maybe as many as four units total (but the nonmilitary units still might be in the game, just not on the tech tree yet, and things are always subject to change)
again if i got something wrong just tell me |
I guess caravan/freigther are out, and commerce is now based on "trade networks", so have to build roads, ports and airports and stablish good diplomatic relationships in order to commerce.
Don´t know what will happen to diplomat/spy, but I guess that they could be also out of the game map, so probably embasies come automatically at contact (or with some tehcnology or small wonder, really don´t know). And what about spying and bribing?. No clue.
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:15
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In another thread, http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=25474, I have a graphical blowup of the unit under military tradition. Seen in zoom, it clearly shows itself to be cavalry unit of some sort.
Perhaps zooms of the other mystery units could show something new.
Last edited by Harlan on 02-09-2001 at 00:27
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:15
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I've figured out what the unit is for the Chivalry tech: the Samurai. Check out this website art, which is reproduced on this thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=25713
Its the exact same baggy pants guy, in the exact same pose (reaching for his sword). Does this mean the Samurai is not a special unit (as in CTP)? I don't think so. I think a couple of other special units snuck into the early tech trees that we've seen so far. Look at the ships under Magnetism. There are no less than three, and this comes right on the heels of another ship under Astronomy just two techs back. Furthermore, we know the English special unit is the Man o' War, so it makes perfect sense that one of the three under Magnetism is the English special unit.
Also, it looks to me that Mass Production has two submarines under it, and I recall one preview specifically mentioned the phrase U-Boat, not submarine. Could the U-Boat be the German special unit? Furthermore, one of them is greyish, and the other black, and black is the how U-Boats are typically depicted. But wait, you say, the German special unit is the Panzer tank! We've just seen that the Russian special unit has been changed to the Cossack, so if they changed that one, perhaps they changed the German one too. They probably tried out more than one special unit for several civs, to see which one worked best for playbalance reasons. Or, perhaps the Germans have two special units. If you don't get your special unit until very late in the game, perhaps you're entitled to special compensation (could the Americans be getting the F-15 AND the Abrams tank, another graphic we've seen?).
PS- Gramphos, you did see three legs! Doesn't anyone else see that (the horse unit under Military Tradition)? With there being one horse unit there, that would make sense as the place for the Cossack to be, and there's blank spots for it. Which makes me think: every special unit has been like a regular unit, plus some extra stats, so what would the Samurai be like, if its the only unit under Chivalry? Maybe it isn't a special unit after all. Also, with Chivalry a technological dead-end, it couldn't be a tech just for the Japanese - it has to be a general unit.
Sorry for changing my mind mid-post - I'm thinking as I type. Special unit or not, its a picture of a Samurai.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:15
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well we have two new CSUs the Persian Immortal and the Indian War Elephant.
Immortal 4.2.1
The Persian Immortal replaces the swordman (Iron Working) and has upgraded attack ability, giving the persians a heavy hitter. The Immortal will require iron to build. I don't see any special strategies the Immortal would provide, but it would still give the Persians an advantage in the ancient era.
War Elephant 4.3.2
The Indian War Elephant replaces the knight (Chivalry), and though its stats are not upgraded it has one huge advantage, that being the War Elephant doesn't require any special resources to build, unlike the knight which requires both Iron and Horses. So this would mean that the Indians could establish forward bases outside of their trade grid which could build War Elephants, it would also lower the effect that raids against the Indian road network would have on them, and lastly the Indians could use the extra special resources as trade items. One last advantage would be a resource poor map wouldn't effect the Indians.
Has anyone else noticed that both the Chinese Rider and the Indian War Elephant which are Middle Ages units received two upgrades while all of the units from the Ancient Era only received one upgrade? Does the epoch your CSU comes in determine how many upgrades it will get? For example will the F-15 receive four upgrades?
Harlan
i think you need to get an eye check up  
but seriously
under Mass Production, the first unit is an aircraft carrier, the second unit is a submarine, and the third unit is a battleship
there will only be one CSU per civ, and i don't think the CSU are represented by either pictures or blank spaces in any of the tech charts we have seen
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gerkenbr
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São Paulo - Brazil
Sep 2001
time: 02:15
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Only to give some new information to you, Brazil does also have 2 aicraft carrier (active), although very old ones.
1 bought from the english (going into retirement now)
1 bought from the french (Foch I think)
The current naval aviation planes are A-4 Skyhawks, bought from the Saudis (or Kwait? ) second hand.
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:15
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I hope that image wasn't too big...
Anyways, I posted that image to show several things. The new BonusWeb tech tree pics are actually extremely old, but show us some new info.
The first and third lines are from the newer screenshots, the second and fourth from the old BonusWeb ones. Korn, I think you're right - the old screenshot shows the one you call an Aircraft Carrier to be an aircraft carrier. Though in my opinion if you just have the first row pic to go on, it could easily be a sub.
So strike one for my eyesight. However, I was right on my speculation that the unit under Military Tradition is a later cavalry unit. Its obviously so in the BonusWeb shot.
Invention clearly shows a later day Archer of some kind.
Something really interesting is happening with Chivalry and Feudalism. I've mentioned elsewhere that the Chivalry unit in the new screenshot looks exactly the same as a Samurai graphic from the Civ3 website. Here you can see them side by side to see what I mean. The unit under Feudalism in the BonusWeb shots is also a Samurai, though a completely different looking one (once again showing they must have lots of unused artwork; look at the different Invention archers as well).
Between the new and old screenshots though, the placement of units has changed a lot around these techs. I don't even know where the Knight is now on the new screenshots - I can't see it anywhere. Yet we know its in the game, so that's more evidence that the new tech tree screenshots are imcomplete. Thus we can't say for a fact where the Knight comes, if its close to Polytheism or not. It could even come with Polytheism, for all we know.
Which brings me to the final image - the Polytheism icon graphic and the War Elephant from the Civ3 site. If those aren't the exact same thing, then I don't know what. Why have the War Elephant pic with the Polytheism tech if the unit doesn't come with it?!? They could just as easily use a different elephant graphic if all they want to do is draw some Polytheism - elephant connection.
Final point. If the Samurai is a general unit, and not unique, then what is the Japanese unique unit? If it is unique, then why is it on the tech tree already, esp. at a "dead end" tech that gives nothing else but this unit? It would make no sense to have the tech give only something the Japanese could benefit from.
Last edited by Harlan on 18-09-2001 at 05:13
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Kestrel
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Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Jul 1999
time: 05:15
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quote:
Any others nations use aircraft carriers? |
We (Australia) had one back in the fifties & sixties, but it actually sank more allied ships that enemy ships.
The angled deck, steam catapult, Aircraft Carrier HMAS Melbourne was commissioned in 1955. Originally ordered for the Royal Navy as HMS Majestic, She was purchased by the Australian Government and renamed.
Two collisions, one with an Australian Ship,
One with a U.S. Ship - Many lives lost.
1964
Destroyer HMAS Voyager sunk off NSW coast in collision with aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne, 82 lives lost in RAN's worst peacetime disaster. All losses from Voyager.
1969
Destroyer USS Frank E. Evans sunk in collision with HMAS Melbourne in Sth China Sea, with loss of 74 lives (all from Evans).
In both cases HMAS Melbourne was cleared of all blame, but she did receive the title "cursed ship" from the general public.
1982
HMAS Melbourne finally decommisoned ("paid off").
1983
Newly elected Labour Government decides not to replace Aircraft Carrier Melbourne.
We basically can't afford a Carrier or the multitude of support ships needed to protect one. Some would argue that Aircraft carriers are only needed where there is a want to 'project' air power away from a nation's shores.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:15
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Harlan
there were some larger shots of the tech screens i posted on the first page of this thread, they were at pc.ign, but i can't find them, but those showed the unit under military tradition as being an infantry unit, but your screen shot clearly show it as a gunpowder mounted unit (of which there weren't any until you found that screenshot)
here is an old screenshot where the unit under military tradition looks like an infantry unit
http://civ.strategy-gaming.com/cgi-...s/civ3tech6.jpg
the old unit under feudalism was placeholder art for the pikeman unit, which has appeared in various screenshots, so we can say that the pikeman comes with feudalism
no where has the samurai been mentioned as "normal" unit only as the japanese CSU...in the old screenshots there was a knight with chivalry, and in the most recent screenshot we have what appears to be a samurai
we know the knight is in the game, the Indian and Chinese CSUs both replace the knight, and using old screenshots, and the placement of the knight in civ2, and the technology most linked to the knight, it seems highly likely that the knight will come with chivalry
we now know that the War Elephant is in the game as the Indian CSU, but it replaces the Knight, Polytheism is at least three techs before Chivalry (cerimonial burial --> mysticism --> polytheism), so the Indians would have an unbalanced advantage...they get War Elephants way before any other civ gets knights, and it doesn't require any resources to build...that is too much, so while it might be possible it would seem strange
though i cannot explain why Elephants and Polytheism have been linked at all...the belief in numerous god have nothing to do with elephants, but elephants do seem to make people happy so i see why they are considered a luxery item in civ3
so i agree with you saying the unit under military tradition is a gunpowder mounted unit, but i still think that chivalry is where knights are at and that is what the Indian War Elephant replaces...i will edit my list
jsw363
that looks like a eagle warrior to me, but we will just have to wait and see
Kestrel and gerkenbr
interesting stuff on your nation's aircraft carriers 
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16-08-2001 00:55
But thats how I understand it
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