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Colonel Kraken
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Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
time: 00:15
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I'd like to make a passionate protest and agree with Yin. It would make quite a statement to Firaxis (or at least the publisher) if thousands of would-be-buyers decided not to purchase Civ 3 (at least initially) on principle.
That Firaxis purported to include MP in Civ 3 and maintained that position (through silence) up until now is troubling at best. I, for one, cannot understand why they could not at least include Hotseat and PBEM with the initial release as these a relatively easy modifications to implement. If it had been concluded many months ago that MP would NOT be included with the initial release, why did Firaxis not jump on the tiger and grab it by the ears and announce their intentions. As Yin has pointed out before, they could have submited an official announcement stating: this is why we did it and this is what we're going to do to make it up to you.
Being practical, though, I know none of these positions are in the realm of reality. I know asking people not to by the initial release on principle is ludicrous. Personally, the only reason I really care is because I am adamant about having Hotseat capability so that I may play the game with my wife. Aside from that, I probably wouldn't care that much either. So I can understand those who need/want SP only willing to buy the game anyway.
Aside from all that, if there is one thing I've learned about initial game releases (and as Yin has stated before), there invariably is an expansion pack costing $30 (the original game usually costs $50). So you pay $80 for a more complete game. Then eventually there is a "Gold Edition" with the latest patch, new scenarios, and the expansion pack for around $45. Now, unless I'm crazy (or have plenty of money to blow), why not wait for that invariable "Gold Edition"? The only drawback I've noticed is that with very popular games, it takes a looonnnggg time for the Gold Edition to come out (i.e. Age of Empires).
For me personally, I cannot see shelling out my hard-earned cash for a game that does not have an essential component in it that I want, not to mention a component that was originally stated as being a part of the game.
I WILL wait, Yin. You can count me as one of the few to take your challenge and use my power as a consumer. 
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Neuronix
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Newark, Delaware
Oct 2001
time: 00:15
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I'm very ready to cancel my LE pre-order. I agree with Yin, Firaxis has deliberately deceived us by telling us the MP would be a part of the game, then removing it from the game, and keeping the entire thing very hush-hush.
I'm waiting until I hear a statement on Firaxis on the issue, but if I don't hear anything, or I don't hear something I like, I'm definately cancelling it. If a free MP patch won't be released until at least May of 2002, then I will go buy Civ3 in May 2002 when it is $20 sitting in the EB bargain bin because the game is more or less long forgotten because of the lack of MP support. You think I trust a company to provide free updates? Unless they say "MP is coming very soon," I'm willing to bet that they would promise it in a patch and then put it in an expansion pack. Wouldn't be the first time I got burned like that.
Frankly, every game now includes MP support, and IMO the decision not to include MP will make the game only appeal to a small hardcore segment and the game, no matter how good the SP is, will fizzle out rather quickly.
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drake
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Maine, US
Oct 2000
time: 00:15
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quote:
More mature gamers like me prefer to roleplay which is virtually impossible online, because MP is ruled by 12year old kids. |
I may be a troll, but you're an ignorant dumbass. This isn't at all true.
Btw, the games I play are all about role playing. There are quite a few circles that use civ as a platform for role playing.
And how may I ask do you f*cking role play with the AI?! Role playing requires dialogue and interaction. And unless you have a friendly little sock you put on your hand and talk to while you play civ, there is no dialogue or interaction.
Winning is childish?
So I suppose any sort of competition is childish, because no one plays to lose, they play to win......I can just see it, Micheal Jordan or other athletes not playing hard or "quitting" because winning is "childish" .
quote:
drake, ever played a minor nation in one of the WW2 scenarios?  |
Nope sure havent.....I like building civs from the ground up and dealing with each aspect of the game......scenarios really aren't my thing........I'm sure it is a challenge, but its not the stock civ game that I'm talking about......
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August Borms
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Antwerpen
Nov 2000
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by drake
I may be a troll, but you're an ignorant dumbass. This isn't at all true.
Btw, the games I play are all about role playing. There are quite a few circles that use civ as a platform for role playing.
And how may I ask do you f*cking role play with the AI?! Role playing requires dialogue and interaction. And unless you have a friendly little sock you put on your hand and talk to while you play civ, there is no dialogue or interaction.
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If you're braindead, yes then you may need outside dialogue and interaction, real roleplayers use their creativity and imagination to create the perfect rp'ing experience
Quake 3 Arena can also be used "as a platform for roleplaying" according to some people
quote:
Winning is childish?
So I suppose any sort of competition is childish, because no one plays to lose, they play to win......I can just see it, Micheal Jordan or other athletes not playing hard or "quitting" because winning is "childish" .
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Athletes their career is based on winning. Civ is just a game, not a competition. Unless you consider Civ your career
Teacher: "Jimmy, what do you want to do when you grow up?"
Jimmy: "I want to play and win Civ3 mp!!1"
Unemployment Office: "So... mr Jim, what kind of job would you prefer?"
Jim: "I want to play and win Civ3 mp!!1" 
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
That Firaxis purported to include MP in Civ 3 and maintained that position (through silence) up until now is troubling at best. I, for one, cannot understand why they could not at least include Hotseat and PBEM with the initial release as these a relatively easy modifications to implement. If it had been concluded many months ago that MP would NOT be included with the initial release, why did Firaxis not jump on the tiger and grab it by the ears and announce their intentions. As Yin has pointed out before, they could have submited an official announcement stating: this is why we did it and this is what we're going to do to make it up to you.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see the point is not if you'll play MP or not. The point is if Firaxis was promising a main game feature or not while shops already accepted Pre-Order.
Sure, products can be under change, but you can accept this for minor point of the game (some units, some change on interface, etc.).
OTOH, are the shops who offer pre-order and are customers ready to sign for them well before they know the game enough. 
I simply miss the needs for a preorder of a game, if you haven't others benefits (e.g. lower price or some free add-on).
In a fair market pre-ordering customers should at least deserve a free upgrade to promised feature (i.e. MP), still if others customers would have a choice to buy a game SP as-is (but knowing what they are paying for) and pay an MP expansion later.
Yin, you use too much bold and large fonts in your initial post, IMHO. You also spent too much effort for people who don't want to listen to yours (and others) advices.
This is a crusade who can't rescue any soul, Yin. Let them alone with their unlimited faith and enjoy others pleasure
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freemen
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I only trust 2 or 3 game compagny. One is Strategy First, who release Sudden Strike, Westwood, even if the late game they release wasnt the product i want it, and Sid Meier. I know with those compagny I can get quality game, that respond that what i need in a game. I dont give **** that other people said about MP. I always think that civilisation is a SP games and I havent played to MP civilisation. Some games are Mp like command and conquer or any RTS game. But an Turn-Base game who go MP, and u have to wait 10 min to play your turn is call a game. If u dont want to buy the game unless he has MP, then good, it will have more to the people who want the game and give **** about if MP is it or not in the package
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Taliseian
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Sacramento, CA
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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I don't post on the boards very often. Usually, what I want to say has already been said (as I will freely admit at the start that this is the case here).
When I bought my first computer, the guy who sold it to me new threw in a copy of any game that I wanted to play. The game that I got was Civilization.
I was hooked.
No doubt about it.
My wife (now ex) was pissed at how much time I would spend playing Civ.
When Civ II came out, I was the first at my local EB to pre-order and pick up the game...waiting at the store for it to open that day to get it (I had taken the day off just for Civ II).
I was the same way when Alpha Centauri came out.
Thru all those games, not once did I have the slightest desire to play against another human.
I've done many hot seat games of Warlords II (now that was a fun hot seater), and several PBEM games of Advanced Civ (by Avalon Hill). I could possibly be interested in doing someting like that for Civ II or SMAC, but the one thing that kills it for me everytime is my own personal play style.
I'm guilty of taking forever on turns. I know I'd piss off everyone in the game because I micromanage. Or, I'd be pissed off if I didn't have enough time to play.
If an adequate PBEM mode for Civ III were made available, I would be interested, but it is not a hot selling point for me.
But hot seat or MP?? No way.
Yin, if this is your cause, I wish you the best. If this is something that drives you everyday....just like I was driven when Civ came out, and when Civ II came out, and when SMAC came out I hope you get what you want.
You'll find no support from me, tho.
Taliseian
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:15
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quote:
Yin - I wish I had the strength of will to cancel my order, but I don't so I won't but I support anyone who decides not to buy the game because of this. |
Hey, totally understood...and thanks for the support anyway.
quote:
I WILL wait, Yin. You can count me as one of the few to take your challenge and use my power as a consumer. |
Right on!  And to some of the other great support posts here: Thanks for your clear view of the situation!
quote:
Ladies and Gentlemen, you can see the point is not if you'll play MP or not. The point is if Firaxis was promising a main game feature or not while shops already accepted Pre-Order. |
AB-SO-FRIGGEN-LUTELY! (...just for that, I'll reduce my font size...)
Like I made absolutely clear despite the large fonts and colors some people ignored (Hello, Steve?), I am not against MP being delayed, etc. But I am TOTALLY against MP being hyped up as part of the game, being leaked out as NOT in the game in an unprofessional e-mail, and then again only being totally unprofessionally confirmed as NOT in by some gaming magazine interview.
Pathetic.
You guys who buy this game DESERVE any crap Firaxis decides to shove down your throats. So why do I hang around? To watch you come to realize you should have spent your money when the advertised game was actually available.
But hey...if you guys don't mind paying once to be beta testers and once AGAIN for the complete product, feel free. I'll thank you for your hard work later.
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11-10-2001 19:03
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