20-11-2001 04:36									#91
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Some one mentioned my Save Game Editor, cool.

The current version that's in the FILES section has one slight problem that when you change unit positions from a saved file, you don't get the visible map when you move, the area that you were previously started in is visible. I've now found the values that decide if tiles are visile or not, so this will be fixed in the next version.

I can also change what type the units are, so maybe if you think you should start with two settlers instead of one, then that may also be possible, as for adding units or removing I'm not sure about as yet.

You never know one day this might turn into a scenario editor!!!

Don't forget to go and add any sugestions that you may have.

Cheers.
James.

	20-11-2001 05:51									#92
	NZ modification Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

As a resident of the beautiful NZ, I've taken the liberty of making a few changes to the two islands.

Map:
I've completely redone both islands to reflect a more realistic size and shape (though like the previous version it is still comparatively larger than Australia, which unfortunately can't helped, sorry Australia
I've corrected the two mountains which should have existed in the north and corrected the southern Alps in the south Island.

Resources:
I don't know why there were uranium deposits in NZ, but I've added 2 coal to reflect the non-renewable resource situation.

I've also added one gold in the south of the south island. There was afterall a gold rush in the early 20th Century. (and there was actual gold

I've added fish resources aswell to the larger fishing grounds of NZ. It is after one of NZ's greatest resources.

Encampment:
I've added in the far north an encampment to reflect the Maori tribes. (they all hung out in the north).....and I've reduced the coastal shelf on the pacific as it was too big.

Well that's it from me. If anyone dislikes the realistic changes let me know

Karl.

Attachment: satya's world map 3.6.zip
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).

	20-11-2001 08:02									#93
	land o' kiwi Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

NZ looks a heck of a lot better subheat. two points of interests though, the north island looks much bigger than i thought it was relative to the south island. and are both islands that large relative to Australia? i am not going to touch them, AND NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER, since you subheat are the kiwi around here for now. of course if there are other NZer's looking in, collaboration may be in order. in anycase, NZ looks 20 times better than the non-descript patches of grassland that was in the original map.

	20-11-2001 09:33									#94
	Re: land o' kiwi Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Solomyr the north island looks much bigger than i thought it was relative to the south island. and are both islands that large relative to Australia?

The south island is slightly bigger than the north, but shouldn't really be noticable on world maps. You're right about the comparasion between and Australia and NZ however, and the angle of the North Island was also slightly off.

I've redone it, made new NZ as small as it can be and still look like NZ . This version certainly fits in to the bigger picture a lot better, and it even looks more like NZ. It's still big enough to fit three large cities aswell. (the're also two specks of land just to the North of NZ, Fiji and Samoa.)

Any comments from anyone appreciated. What'd you reckon Solomyr?

Subheat.

	20-11-2001 12:44									#95
	Suffering from ads?

Ok, I redid Africa, it has some fairly big changes in its vegatation and altitude, but nothing major. i have the newly done alaska and new zeland (great job Albatouand subheat_nz).

I made a lot of changes regarding resources. I used a map from nationalgeographic.com that is very very good at placing major resource areas.
http://plasma.nationalgeographic.co...=90&size=medium

I reworked turkey. it had too many hills in the middle; they should be more around the edges. I also added a little forest south of the Caspian Sea.

Back to the resources. the ones i messed with the most were oil, uranium, iron and coal. I believe i have 24 oil, uranium and 32 iron, coal. in response to AlmightyBob

quote: For the stratigic and luxurie resources the max of anyone you should have is 16, since this is the max number ov civs you can have. If anything you should have a few less to make things interesting, from 12 to 15.

You must have more than 16 because resources run out. And from my own experience, it isn't hard to use up a couple iron deposits.

Yangtse River has been added in China. There is something wrong with China still, and i just can't figure out what to do. I wish i could zoom out.

Finally, i didn't know what to do about Istanbul, Ireland, and a few other spaces on the map where you can either sail through or walk across. I ended up leaving them how they were, but they are really bugging me. I wish you could sail through diagonal spaces.

Thanks to everyone who as worked on the map so far.

	20-11-2001 15:11									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i do not want to insult anyone's hard work. but the western US just isn't cuttin git for me. there is hardly any desert, the mountians don't do justice, and there is too much land that can support too many large cities in too many places. if you look at there, are basicily 4 large cities on the west coast, and they are in very specific locations (at the mouths of rivers, and in bays). and alaska looks like too much fun to play, too easy to make quality cities in a regoin whose largest city is a quarter million.

that all said, i have some changes that, IMHO, i find more to my likeing (boy i sounds like i jacka$$) anyways, it is on a much older version of the map, so when i get back from the holiday (yeah grandmom's house) i will make the changes to a more recent version.

if nicebeam, or anyone else who feels they have a strong grasp of the geography would like to help, i welcome the company. especially when it comes to the placement of resources (i have a strong urge to put uranium in NV, but then i remember that they just blew up the Bombs there).

my apoligies for stepping on anyone's toes, but all i want is a nice looking map that is accurate and fun to play....and 40 hours a week to play civ3 instead of sacrificing school.

Solomyr

PS sorry for spelling errors, and thank you for letting me rant

	20-11-2001 21:50									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Err, as far as resource depletion: I've found whenever a resource depletes, another pops up somewhere else on the map in the same turn. This really only becomes obvious when you get a huge empire going. So you could safely tone down on the number of resources.

	20-11-2001 22:59									#98
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In retrospect, I did put too many grasslands in Alaska; most of those 6 grassland squares (count 'em) I'd prefer to be plains. That would be more accurate. However, as I previously stated, the editor won't allow tundra and plains to sit by each other. Perhaps it would be better just to replace 2 or 3 with Tundra or hills.

Only 600,000 people live in Alaska, but like in much of North America, the land can support many more. Just look at China and India; they ARE using the land to the brim. Our land sits there and soaks up CO2

	20-11-2001 23:04									#99
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Some small changes.

Who messed with my Country???

Removed some oil. I think the major oil fields in the world are in place, shouldnt we leave it alone now? If everybody has oil, there's no point in trading.

Added one coal in Scotland so the English have 2 in Britain, no Iron?

Shouldnt Italy have at least one resource?

Possibly one or two other resource changes I forgot to mention, nothing big.

Added the Canárias, Madeira, Açores and Cabo Verde islands (Portuguese names).

Attachment: satya's world map v3.8.zip
This has been downloaded 106 time(s).

	21-11-2001 00:07									#100
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Woohoo! Civ3 reached Portuguese stores, just bought it!
Now I get to play with the full version

Started a game using the 3.8 version of the map, and only ancient civs (no americans or russias...).

As the Romans (started in correct position, changed the other's with jimmyh's simple but awesome editor

But playing in Warlord level (hey, im new to civ3).

Turn 1, try it if you want.

Attachment: romans a 0.zip
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	21-11-2001 02:53									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmmmm, who went and messed up all the NZ resources.
ONce again they are inaccurate. There's no iron in the north, but there is is coal in the southern alps and a little bit of gold in the far south.

There is fish resource in the far north and far south aswell. (just because we're small doesn't mean we don't got nothing

	21-11-2001 05:14									#102
	Errors Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nicbeam not only reorganized ALL the resources, but he updated an OLD VERSION of the map! So ALL THE WORK that v3.3-3.5 (and maybe even earlier) was LOST. Therefore, Sunbeat & Alexandre could you please update v3.5 with your changes since v3.7 & v3.8 are flawed older versions of the map. Although I know this means Nicbeam's work is lost he was wrong to use an older map version to do his updating... this is also why ALL the changes Alex, Sunbeat, & others have done were lost.

ANYONE MAKING CHANGES, PLEASE UPDATE THE LATEST VERSION POSTED. If you are worried about someone updating the map while you are make a post saying you're working on the map with an estimated completion date.

ANYONE MAKING DRASTIC CHANGES EVERYWHERE SHOULD GET APPROVAL FROM THE MAJORITY HERE 1st. Too much work has been put into this by too many people to see 1 person "completely change" main areas of the map now.

Again v3.7 & v3.8 should be discarded, next update should come from v3.5 (also listed below as v3.9, there was no v3.6).

Last edited by Pyrodrew on 21-11-2001 at 05:27

	21-11-2001 05:25									#103
	v3.9 Inflate your Upload Space

So there is no confusion or further mistakes please use this v3.9 to update on...

Attachment: satya's world map v3[1].9.zip
This has been downloaded 107 time(s).

	21-11-2001 06:00									#104
	Suffering from ads?

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

I used the map that i thought was the most accurate. I made changes to make in more accurate. And then i added the new Alaska and New Zealand to make the map even more accurate. Don't use my version if you don't want to. Anyway, it isn't difficult to make the changes back yourself. I added the Alaska and NZ changes manually. It's not too tough.

P.S. I did post that i was making changes on Tuesday. That didn't stop about 6 new maps from popping up. I used some of the changes from those maps that i thought were good.

And i don't need your approval to change the map.

	21-11-2001 07:00									#105
	Increase Your PM Length

As for the resources in New Zealand: Yes there is some coal, gold and iron in New Zealand. The iron deposits are by far the most major of the three. The coal and gold is extremely minor. It is nowhere near enough to be included on the map. Its there, it just isn't significant enough.

Last edited by nicbeam on 21-11-2001 at 07:07

	21-11-2001 08:13									#106
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Playing as the English on the real world map with all civs in historic positions I realise:

1. The French are doing nicely what with nearby horses, 4 wines, 2 coal some iron and not too far away salpeter...

Whilst I am in Britain lamenting the loss of my netherlands city to CULTURE and thus bye, bye my horsies (I lost a city size 11 to culture...the city is the largest in the WORLD!!! Considering London has two wonders and a tonne of improvements it gives you some indication of how well France is doing.

	21-11-2001 08:18									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In this version I have changed several things:

Added oil in the southeast Asia. Japan went for there during WW2 because of the oil that could be found there.

Added cattle in various places such as China, Russia, Egypt, Japan, France.

Taken aluminum as a "high-tech" streategic resource thereby removing it from various places in Australia and giving it to some other places that seem to have quite a high High-tech sector including Japan.

Given France, Japan, England Uranium and taken it from western China instead putting it into China.

Modifying Asia heavily removing mountains and deserts from various places in easterncentral China replacing it with plains and grassland. Thereby reducing the size of the Gobi-desert and Himalaya which was in my opinion too large (They were respectively as larger than half of Europe).

Modyfing southern Africa so there is less mountains and hills in southeastern Africa.

Taken away fishes near northeastern coast of Australia

Given some whales to Japan, Norway and China.

Modifying the size of the alps in Europe.

Modifying central China so less woods fill the place and added grassland, plains and hills there.

Modyfying Middleeast complete so instead of desert there is grassland and plains there were Babylon was.

Modyfying Central Asia so there is no longer desert, but more grassland and plains and hills.

Taken away resource uranium from Scandinavia.

Modifying other resources that seemed malplaced like aluminium in central Africa.

Removed Desert and changed into plain near Mexico City.

Modyfing egyptian, german, iroquis, zulu, indian, chinese and japanese start locations.

Modified Greenland so there is no longer so many mountains there but so that it more like civ 2.

Applied horses and iron to the middle east.

Made Denmark more like Denmark.

Otherwise I have done more to make the changes turn in a direction of more ala civ 2 world map because that was most accurate in describing where the different terrain types were.

Last edited by warlon on 21-11-2001 at 09:09

	21-11-2001 08:47									#108
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

PLEASE, if you don't have a good map as source for this here, don't make one of the earth.

1) The recources you place are terrible and most absolute wrong.
If one creates / corrects the earth map, ehe should do know where what recources are. I.e. look at Europe where what recources are (oil, iron, coal, salpeter, Uran) And also read what's the recouce for Aluminium is and where. Terrible such false maps. I expect a *minimum* of reality.

2) don't make sea ways so small that they are able to be clocked by one ship only if sich isn't in reality, and make ways there where ways are in fact.
i.e. between Sizilien and Italy you cannot move a ship on map, in fact you can. Between Madaira and North africa you can't block a sea way an fact, in game you can. Same for Gibraltar.

	21-11-2001 09:13									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I presume it was my modification that you were talking about.
What is it that you think is inaccurate?
Please be more exact in your critisism.
More exact in where and where resources shouldn't be, and where they should be instead.

Last edited by warlon on 14-12-2001 at 03:52

	21-11-2001 09:59									#110
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by nicbeam As for the resources in New Zealand: Yes there is some coal, gold and iron in New Zealand. The iron deposits are by far the most major of the three. The coal and gold is extremely minor. It is nowhere near enough to be included on the map. Its there, it just isn't significant enough.

Argh.....There are minor iron deposits in NZ. However VERY LITTLE can be mined. Coal is the major mining resource in NZ. I live here, I know.rush

As for the gold, sure it's minor now but there was a gold rush in the early 20th Century. I think the map was best at the last version I posted and I will leave it at that.

	21-11-2001 10:24									#111
	Full PM-box? Change here!

well,
1) the sea channels should be in right relation, so that one ship only can block a passage where it's possible in fact to do such relative easy.
i.e.: Danemark- Sweden you can block easy in reality, street of Gibraltar you can't. Sizilien-Italy has a sea way, and not possible to block the transit in the middle sea somewhere, expect at Istambul the way to the black sea.
2) Sea ways should be there where they are in fact, special those in middle sea Europe and to black sea
3) recources should be where they are in fact, i.e. iron + coal + oil (!!!!) in Europe (how do you think that the 1st world war was possible?)
4) my main problem: Salpeter *everywhere* is where people or animals are. It's not a rare recource in fact. How do you think that gun powder was able make overall im middle age???

	21-11-2001 11:22									#112
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This looks like a great map, but I see a problem with the rivers in N. America. The Mississippi River does not start from Lake Michigan. It starts from a point to the west of Lake Superior. The other rivers look a little off as well. And there are several rivers and lakes in Canada that are not represented. There is a good map of N. America here.

Just my opinion.

	21-11-2001 11:40									#113
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

satya's world map v4.5.bic
failures:
1) rubber can't be in cold regions. you set rubber to Norway + Germany - brrrrrrrr
rubber in history only in south asian island was, later, in middle age it was stolen and farms made in middle and south america.
So north of the horizontal line of around Y:80 in Map isn't any rubber wordwide, and also not south of around Y:120

2) WHERE IS THE SALPETER???????????????????????????????????????
Please all may learn: Salpeter if EVERYWHERE, where living humans and animals are. So Salpeter as recource the most often recource is, it must be in any city!!! (or even so often that all can have it as they want it.)

3) diamonds: Southafrica, Southamerica, and Sibiria (Russia) are the main recources

4) in middle sea between Sizilia and Italia must be a ship way, same at Istambul between Middle Sea and Black Sea (both able to block by one unit)

5) Between Saudi Arabia and Egypt must NOT be a shipway, that's the Suez Challel only, like Panama Channel. And the Red Sea there is much smaller than you made. So Panama channel and Suez channel you can't use for battle ships.

In Sahara more oil is as you made, look at Libia. Also lot of oil is in Westafrica and Venezuela, then north, east and southeast of Black Sea. (Don't have the complete list present, but Oil isn't rage in Russia, and even Germany has small oil recources on land, Norway big recources at coastal border) Then, in Germany one of the worldwide biggest brown and black coal recourced are at 2 positions.

6) Mountains you made, terrible. The Alpes (Europe) are a closed mass of Mountains, no way throught until today (tunnells only, not to use by military). Same with Pyrineas at North Spain. The only way from Italy to north is either along the coast to west via Nizza (france) or to east along the coast and then via Vienna (Austria), and only there the Italics have little iron recources, not at Rome. And there also is no coal and aluminium at the Alpes.

7) Spain is a high plateau nearby complete, and until 1700 it was forest complete (the Spainish and Portuguise took it for their ships (Columbus' time and time of Spanish Armada), today it's waste land)

8) then you place 2 Salpeter to Black Sea and nowhere else, extreme wrong. Black sea border has more Oil than Saudi Arabia or Iraq
but to concentrate Salpeter there is absolute wrong, the more as you set it as rare recource.
The best is you place a salpeter recource near every starting point.

Last edited by Dreifels on 21-11-2001 at 11:49

	21-11-2001 12:06									#114
	Re: Dreifels Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And I thought I was the biggest ass-h*** on this thread!

	21-11-2001 12:54									#115
	Updated Map Tired of ads?

Well here's my NZ updates again. This time for the correct map.
So this should be the latest version now.

Subheat.

Attachment: satya's world map v3[1][1].9.zip
This has been downloaded 130 time(s).

	21-11-2001 20:52									#116
	Re: Updated Map Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by subheat Well here's my NZ updates again. This time for the correct map. So this should be the latest version now. Subheat.

Obviously you are disrespecting the changes I have made. I would like to pinpoint that the Asia, Africa and Europe are redone with much more geographical accuracy.



To Dreifels

The rubber in Norway have been added near the oil because oil can be used to produce "rubber-like" products. Germany don't have oil fields. Under WW2 they needed to import it or make synthetic oil.

Salpeter was rare in northen Europe.

You can pass through Sicily and Italy with ships same with the Bospurus.

Suez channel and Panama Channel is there because ships can pass there and for the playability.

Alpes aren't that large compared to other places. It would make Europe have nearly as much muntains as grasslands!

Regarding Spain: If you are taking in account for all the places that have been forested then the whole map should be totally redone since both Europe as general... Russia... Northen America should have alot more forests.


Gems: yes I realized that in southern Africa that there should be more gems (right now there is 0).

China or Russia is the world's largest producer of coal not Germany.


Please update on the latest version subheat or post it on another board. I believe that the work I have done with the map shouldn't be neglected, since if you take a overlook over it you will see that the general realism and playabilty of it have been greatly improved (Before Gobi desert covered half of China and went into Kazaksthan and Central Asia).

Below is a changed 4.6 version with gems added to southern africa. Coal added in Ural and China, horses added in Japan and Spain and France

	22-11-2001 00:43									#117
	Advice Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by nicbeam I used the map that i thought was the most accurate. I made changes to make in more accurate. And then i added the new Alaska and New Zealand to make the map even more accurate. Don't use my version if you don't want to. Anyway, it isn't difficult to make the changes back yourself. I added the Alaska and NZ changes manually. It's not too tough.

If EVERYONE used older versions to update everyone's new work wouldl always be lost. The idea is to constantly improve with the current, not build several variations from 1 old model (hence v3.4, v3.5, etc). You discarded other people's prior work without even mentioning it and without stating why you discarded their work. Next time, provide good reasons if you feel Subheat, Alexandre's, or my work is not "the most accurate" OR do what you want by make your changes to an old version - then post it as your seperate map. You should have more respect for other's work or at least the courage to say why you've discarded their work.

quote: P.S. I did post that i was making changes on Tuesday. That didn't stop about 6 new maps from popping up. I used some of the changes from those maps that i thought were good. And i don't need your approval to change the map.

You stated you would not have time "until Tuesday"... not that you would be working on it through Tuesday. It's not my map or your map. I guess you could make a map of 99% water & post it here as the latest version of Satya's map too... I guess it all depends on how much confusion you want to cause. Next time, follow Warlon's & Dreifels example... notice how they are posting *before* they discard other's work. That's civil and productive.

quote: Originally posted by nicbeam And I thought I was the biggest ass-h*** on this thread!

Don't worry... you are.

	22-11-2001 03:01									#118
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Don't worry... you are.

Alright, still #1!
I thought Dreifels was giving me some competion.

Dreifels, feel free to make changes on the map. If you "have a good map as source for this here" then go for it. Stop *****ing why the map sucks and dissing people's work as "terrible" and "extreme wrong". How about we just ditch saltpeter as a resource. there seems to be no point if everyone has it. It should be replaced by something a little more rare.

Oh and Pyrodrew, I'm not sure the word i would use to describe Dreifels would be "civil"

	22-11-2001 03:03									#119
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hey, I didn't know they bleeded **** out when you typed it. Thats impressive.

P.S. I said b*tching i case you couldn't tell

	22-11-2001 05:35									#120
	Quebec Inflate your Upload Space

I haven't seen it mentioned since the patch that altered it, and i havent downloaded any of the patches (maps) yet... but just a quick note, Quebec doesnt actually have Bauxite, thus, it doesnt have a domestic source of Aluminum.

We actually import most of our Bauxite from Jamaica. The reason why Quebec is renowned for making Canada a leader in aluminum production is cuz we have a lot of hydro-electric plants... and sell electricity cheaply to aluminum producers.

So, i dont know if it has been corrected... but just as a suggestion to whoever makes the next version of this map, take Aluminum out of Quebec/Canada. Whoever owns it (and no aluminum producing land) should have to import bauxite/aluminum... just like Canada does.

I know this to be true cuz its been repeated to us a half a billion times. I guess Quebec is very proud of having to import things.

P.S. I am a resident of Quebec, and well educated in its geography, resources, and other such things. I COULD be tempted to tell everyone that Quebec has a major resource of Iron... but I won't... because realistically, it would only last 1 turn in game.