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Vargas920
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Good stuff, and the person who made the original firaxis map should be ashamed of himself! Original map designer - go to your room and think about what you've done. (though to be fair it was probably due to pressure from infogrames to get it finished quick)
Last edited by Vargas920 on 26-11-2001 at 04:56
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Kaptnwakky
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Okay here is the map 4.2, based on 4.0. The resource locations with quantity are in a .txt file in the zip file. I also did some slight changes to geography to enhance playability include:
Made Eastern Russia and China more accurate with regards to desert, hills, rivers etc.
Changed the great lakes so that Eastern Canada is larger and not sloping as much - No space was actually lost, I moved eastern canada "up" one "square." It straitened it out like a mercator projection should and it helped the Iroqious out to give them some breathing room.
Changed mexico so that the Aztecs aren't screwed out of resources and starting location. The Aztec starting location is now where Mexico City is historically.
The resources I positioned were placed useing a historic atlas with this idea in mind - Many of the early resources are scattered in clumps of one or two with the clumps growing as technology progresses. Hence Iron is all over the place, while rubber only exists in about 5 locations worldwide. There are between 20-24 of each strategic resource with some of the later resources like uranium only having 18. I included this many because I found in my games that the AI won't trade unless it has a LARGE surplus of resources. For example, areas like the MIddle east have only oil and a square of something else lke coal, but have many luxuries such as incense and dyes, allowing for trade and dependencies on allies. In the game I just started, I am the Americans at about 1000AD and everyone is very interconnected with trade. Severing of ties by war has caused the decline of a few of the Europeans and other civs.
I also placed Luxury Resources. These were harder to do since my atlas only details half of them, so I had to fudge it with ones like dyes. Also silks historically only came from china but giving china 16 silks made no sense so for game balance they were placed in other areas such as south america etc. There are only 16-18 of each luxury resource, but they are clumped together in various locations allowing for trade. I felt that it was too much for every civ to have all 8 luxury's (thats 8 happy faces!) so I figured that most civs would only get half, if even that many, of the resources if they were slick with trading and nice to there neighbors.
Thats that, hope everyone likes the changes!
 Attachment: satyaworldmap4-2.zip
This has been downloaded 53 time(s).
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Kaptnwakky
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Also since people are changing maps alot, any way to post documentation as to what was changed so that if someone doesn't like parts of the map, but likes other parts they can change it back?
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Solomyr
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Seattle
Oct 2001
time: 21:16
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well, the US is updated. IMHO, it looks much better, and is going to be very fun to play. i am a little worried about it being to strong. nice amount of room for growing cities and buiding mines. weak on the resources, so that should balence it. the changes i made are below, as well as in the zip. hope you all like it. 
and if you don't...  i am off to 
North America:
-enlarged rockies
-defined serria nevadas
-formed great basin
-snake river, 'magic vally' of idaho
-colorado river redrawn
-colombia " "
-added river near Vancouer, BC for gameplay
-extened Baja one square, added goodie hut
-added snow to mts.
-coast/sea tinkering
-rearranged the Rio grande, some hills in northern mexico.
*don't feel great about the changes, but mexico is small to begin with.
-forests throughout canada, eastern US
-barabin camp or two added to give people a hard time :-)
-replaced some tundra with plains in canada. the land id harsh, but not that bad. i think.
Resources
-wines in Napa valley (CA)
* only one, as CA wine is well known in the US,
but i don't know how many people have heard of it overseas.
-removed one oil in Alaska. plenty for US, not two civs
-removed uranium in rockies, they tested bomb, not mine for them there
-removed Ur in eastern canada, gameplay and reality (?)
-added Ur in north of canada.
*if the ruler of N. Amer. wants a local source of Ur, they can, but they have to pay for it.
-removed one Al in midwest, quebec (was it there to start with in 4.2?)
-Added Al near seattle.
*large production, but not really mining. if this is an issues, let me know where else it might go in the NA
-coal and iron moved in east coast to represent industry
-fish off Pac. NW for salamon
Goodie huts added for a jolly good time
(i just figured out how to make the smiles work today )
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Solomyr
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Seattle
Oct 2001
time: 21:16
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maybe this time...
Edit: Insomnia gives me the chance to correct mistakes. i added an iron so the Iroquois can survive through the middle ages.
Attachment: satya's world map v4.3.zip
This has been downloaded 91 time(s).
Last edited by Solomyr on 26-11-2001 at 16:16
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warlon
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
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Seeing what changes and modification people make on the map I have come to realize that there is too much national favoristm. At the moment cattle are totally absent in whole of Asia. Wheat you don't find in Ukraine. Whales are not near Japan. China can not support as many cities as USA... English and Americans seem to be most attractive to play...
to Alexandre:
replacing other people's work? I worked from 3.9. Should every step be little bit tiny even if somethings are absolutely wrong realistically?
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Alexandre Madeira
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Viseu
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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Im sorry, if it wasnt you, it was someone else, it happened before.
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Alexandre Madeira
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Viseu
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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Ok, I've made a few changes to the resources:
I dont think having clusters of the same resource together is very good (in some cases, there were 3 resources of the same type very close to each other), so I removed some.
Also fixed the oil locations.
Also, in my last version I added a single hill here and there in Germany and Russia, there's lots of grassland there, if they dont have at least one hill to mine, the german and russian capital cities wont have much chance to win wonder races Readded those hills.
Removed the horses from N America, the indians only got horses after the Europeans came I think, so to make it more realistic, they should only get them after being able to trade with old world powers, if that means the Iroquois will only get their unique unit when that happens, so be it. But I have a reason to do it, im looking for a way to limit Iroquois, Aztec and Zulus scientific progress, right now the best way i thought of is to not allow them to build workers (at least workers that can build roads), they didnt build roads after all, me thinks (No roads, not much comerce...)
If you disagree just dont download this version
Attachment: satya's world map v4.4.zip
This has been downloaded 88 time(s).
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sianews
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Agreed. Civ isn't meant to be historically accurate - if you want that go play EU.
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romikua
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quote:
Originally posted by warlon
Wheat you don't find in Ukraine. |
Since when?
Vice versa, Ukraine was (and still is) known for its wheat-oriented agriculture (and, since, the economy).
I believe only one link will be enough to persuade you. (US Department of Agriculture site - http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/Ukraine/)
Commenting on the modern Ukraine area (later I'll take a look at some other territories that I have a knowledge of) in the version 4.3 I should suggest:
1) moving player start position from (105,37) to (104,42)
2) adding wheat at (108,42)
3) adding cattle at (106,44)
4) adding hills and coal at (111, 45)
5) adding hills and iron at (110,44)
6) removing horses from (112,44)
7) adding wines at (110,54)
8) adding barbarian camp at (107.49)
Also suggest tweaking:
Azov sea (increase by 1 tile)
Buh river (move it 1 tile to south-east)
Plains line (trim it by converting 3 plain tiles into 3 grassland tiles)
If nobody disagrees I can incorporate these changes into one of the next versions.
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Dreifels
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Alpha Centauri
Oct 1999
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexandre Madeira
Ok, I've made a few changes to the resources:
Also, in my last version I added a single hill here and there in Germany and Russia, there's lots of grassland there, if they dont have at least one hill to mine, the german and russian capital cities wont have much chance to win wonder races Readded those hills.
If you disagree just dont download this version |
well, you 1st should say if you are creating a map being similar to the time 5000 years ago (with some changes to make it more balanced), or if you create a map as the planet is today. THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!
Europe, Sibiria that time had more than 90% forest, the other was tundra, except north Germany and Danemark where green grass was.
Europe + Russia had/have BIG recources of Iron + Coal. And the production of food inearly time was absolute different than today. Where you today have weat (i.e.) in history nothing similar was.
(What do you think the reason for the expansion was in early time between 500 + 1500 AC ? Europe had too much people! Means they had so much recources that they could grow much faster than all around, AND they had the tech that time)
(Today the production of such recources is not decreased as they are empty, but as meanwhile the international working prices in other countries are cheaper.)
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Dreifels
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Alpha Centauri
Oct 1999
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by warlon
I meant wheat is found in ukraine in abudant supplies ... 
As you can see I have also added lotsa wheat to 4.8 in ukraine and belorussia |
The general problem with this wheat placements is, that wheat didn't exist 5000 BC. The only that was known the Corn was, and it had 1/4 of the today's wheat only for food.
And the wheat fields in Ukraine also didn't exist in that time, these are the past 250 years only.
So, whereever you set the biological recouces: grass, forest, desert, wheat, wine, rubber, horses, you have to declare what time that map should be, today or 5000 BC. The difference is very big.
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nicbeam
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California
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
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quote:
Seeing what changes and modification people make on the map I have come to realize that there is too much national favoristm. |
I'm glad to see that someone else noticed this. I had mentioned it on page 3 i think, but no one was too concerned then.
About wheat, it can be planted all over the place, but you can't just fill up ukraine or the midwestern US with wheat. so just sprinkle it around and don't worry about it.
Not to offend anyone, but placing scientific limitations on civs (Aztecs, Zulu, Iroquoi) is dumb. Historical accuracy is what scenarios are for.
And i'm posting an old map just for the hell of it. Its circa 1235 AD
Attachment: satya's world map v3.4.zip
This has been downloaded 14 time(s).
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satyajedi
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OK, I just uploaded "Version 5.0". Actually, it is only slightly modified from V4.2, but I wanted to get all of your improvements uploaded quickly, since these posts are getting only ~26 downloads and the first post (with the lousy Austrailia still) had more than 1600 downloads.
My slight modifications were gameplay related, mostly trying to limit the rather large advantage India, China and the US have had in every game I've played. To that end:
- China's starting space has been moved South to the old capital of Nanking to give Japan a fighting chance at making it to Korea and Manchuria.
- China's agriculture has been reduced, taking away a wheat or two and adding more plains.
- Many barbarian camps have been added along the Himalayas and in Pakistan, partially to reflect the Aryan invaders, but mostly to encourage India to retreat into relative isolationism and limit trade with the West. It is much lamented by me that there is no way to recreate the wealth of Persia -- which was based on being a middleman for trade between India and the West -- and as it is, Persia just kind of sucks. Any ideas here?
- The Red Sea has been slightly but importantly modified to make it possible to stick a city along the Sinai and use it as a canal to the East.
- The Yemen is grassland again, because dammit, that is a decent area.
- The Iriquois have been moved substantially east. Origionally, I had placed them West to try and help them - to give them a clear territory in the Great Plains. However, in gameplay, this left the Americans with no competition for all of the east coast, and conceding that area did not do any great favors to the Iriquois. They are now somewhere around Ohio or Michagen.
Those are all the changes I can think of off the top of my head. Like I said, nothing drastic, but I wanted to get it posted ASAP so people would be downloading the improved edition.
-Satya
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Solomyr
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Seattle
Oct 2001
time: 21:16
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the only know (to me) way is to start the game, save it before you take your first turn, and then edit the saved game file. of course, i haven't actually done this, but other people have it seems. two of the editors are below
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=35691
http://apolyton.net/forums/attachme...=&postid=616298
the first is text-beased, the second i believe is windows. don't have either one. hope that helps though.
and i played a game as the aztec in there proper location, with the chinese and japanese to the north (warlord). it was rough. only my thrid or fourth game (as i have played them almost to completion), but the closed iron is down in venezula, and building a road to it is a task. and when you do, make sure you defend it becasue there seems to be plenty of barb camps around. my advise is to expand northward first, take some of the room from your two competitors, and slowly expand into s. america. roads or clearing jungle takes a while for the aztec. good luck.
Last edited by Solomyr on 28-11-2001 at 09:10
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Mongoloid Cow
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Flood Persia with incense and dye to increase its wealth.
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satyajedi
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THis map is a huge map -- it isn't 256 x 256 though, which is the absolute maximum a map can be. Ever tried to run a game on a 256 x 256 map once the game hits the early industrial period? It isn't fun. Anyway, as for the other map, IMO it is certainly decent, I do think we have had the advantage of having so many people working on a single map though, and again, I'm not sure how playable it is at that size.
-Satya
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lindberg-johan
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Molkom, Sweden
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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Hi there!
Great job with this map!
I have seen that many people has written here and told you about errors in their home countries, so I think I should try, too.
I live in Sweden, so here are my complaints on Scandinavia:
Greenland:
Too much mountains!!! The most of the island is covered with tundra or glacier. Even though the island has got quite a few high mountains, it is the ice that dominates the terrain.
Iceland:
If you want glacier/tundra here, it should be in the southeast part (Vatnajökull). More mountains than you have now perhaps would do, too. I also think it is a bit too close to Greenland.
Norway:
I think there should be more mountains in the southwestern part (not in the far south, though). There should also be a resource of oil somewhere near the southern fur resource, because of the big oil fields in the sea. You could also add a fish and a whale in the sea outside Norway (Norway is famous of their notorious whale hunting).
Denmark:
Quite alright/, but you could perhaps add Själland (the island near Sweden, with Copenhagen). But there maybe isn't room for this...
Sweden:
The uranium resource is not correctly placed. Sweden once had a uranium mine there, but there is far more uranium in the forest near the border to Finland (far north, that is). Someone said that Sweden has got the third most uranium in the world. That may be true, but it is so diluted that it costs more to mine it than you earn by selling it. Therefore this resource maybe should be removed completely. Where you now have the uranium, or perhaps on the hills near it, it would be better with iron. This part of Sweden once was one of the world's largest iron producers.
Somewhere in the middle of Sweden you have made a strange bay... I wonder why, because it doesn't exist... Check on a real map. The Stockholm region should probably have one more land square, so it would be more protuberant, so please add a grassland square directly to the east of the uranium.
The only river in southern Sweden ends in a hill. It should end in a lake (Vänern), covering one square. The river could then (if you like) continue after the lake, and some squares up in Norway.
Finland:
In the middle of the Baltic sea there is a fairly big island: Åland. Please add it.
I also think that Finland is small compared to Sweden, you should perhaps move the Baltic countries further south, to give space for Finland.
Thats it! I hope it wasn't too much... please ask me if you have any more questions on Scandinavia...
Good luck!
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26-11-2001 04:25
your are correct in saying that horses are not native to the Americas. but having to trade with an 'old world' power for them seems a bit much. it is a task to get around the atlantic with a galley. 
's
Is there any way to remedy this?
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