 |
| |
|
|
Kaptnwakky
|
|
I leave for a few days and the map jumps from 5.2 to 5.7 - pretty impressive. However I noticed that whoever upgraded post 5.2 must have either not liked the geographic changes to the west coast USA or not used them. I took the liberty of incorporating these changes into 5.7 so that the Rockies are well defined and the great basin exists. Also the resources were from an older map so I changed a few of them to represent more accurate production centers and dropped quatities to the following - I also included what civs are most likely to get those resources. If anyone decides to make more changes please do it with the updated geography - its a real pain to incorporate multiple maps. Also I attached map 5.8 which has all the changes in it.
Horses -
2 - north america (Iroquois/Americans Disputed)
1 - spain (French)
1 - France (French)
1 - Germany (Germans)
1 - Subsaharan africa (Zulu)
2 - Anatolia (Babylonians/Persians)
2 - Eastern Europe (Germans/Greeks)
2 - European Russia (Russians)
2 - Persia (Persians)
2 - Asian Russia (Russians/Persians)
3 - Mongolia (Chinese)
1 - China (Chinese)
Total = 20
Iron -
1 - Pacific Northwest (Iroquois)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
1 - Appalachians (Americans)
1 - Morroco/Algeria (Egyptians)
1 - Pyrenees (French)
1 - UK (English)
1 - West France (French/Germans disputed)
1 - North Italy (Romans)
3 - Scandinavia (Germans/Unclaimed)
1 - North West Congo (Zulus)
1 - Anatolia (Babylon/Greek disputed)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Black Sea Region (Russians)
1 - North Korea (Chinese)
1 - Hokkaido (Japanese)
1 - Persia (Persians)
Total = 22
Saltpeter -
1 - Utah (Americans/Iroquois Disputed)
1 - Baja California (Aztecs)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
2 - Poland (Germany)
1 - Alps (Germans/Romans Disputed)
2 - West Sahara (Unclaimed)
1 - North Africa (Egyptians)
1 - Egypt (Egyptians)
1 - Red Sea (Egyptians)
1 - Anatolia (Greeks/Babylonians Disputed)
2 - Gobi Desert (Chinese)
1 - West China (Chinese)
1 - West Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - Spain (French)
Total - 18
Coal -
2 - UK (English)
1 - West Germany (Germans)
1 - Rhineland (French)
1 - Poland (Germans)
2 - Urals (Russians)
2 - Appalachians (Americans)
2 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - New Zealand (Unclaimed)
1 - European Russia (Russians)
Total - 17
Oil -
1 - Alaska (Unclaimed)
1 - Texas (America/Aztec Disputed)
1 - Central/Southern Canada (Iroquois)
1 - Mexico (Aztec)
1 - North Africa (Egypt)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
1 - Indonesia (Unclaimed)
5 - Saudia Arabia/Babylon (Babylonians/Persians Disputed)
3 - Caucuses/North Caspian Sea Region (Russians/Persians Disputed)
1 - Central Russia (Russians)
1 - Western China (Chinese)
Total - 17
Rubber -
4 - Amazon Region (North America Disputed)
2 - Congo (Zulu)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
6 - Malaysia/South Pacific (Unclaimed)
1 - Australia (Unclaimed)
3 - Indochina (China/India Disputed)
Total - 17
Aluminum -
1 - France (French)
1 - Italy (Romans)
2 - Greece (Greeks)
1 - Hungary (Germans)
1 - Caucuses (Russians/Babylonians Disputed)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Unclaimed)
1 - Subsaharan Central Africa (Zulu)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - Indochina (Indians/Chinese Disputed)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
2 - South America (Aztecs/Americans Disputed)
1 - Southern US (Americans)
Total - 17
Uranium -
1 - Balkans
2 - Siberia
1 - France
1 - Congo Region
1 - Madagascar
1 - Sahara
1 - India
1 - Western China
1 - Southern China
2 - Australia
2 - South America
1 - Eastern Canada
2 - Southwest US
Total - 17
Wines -
2 - California
4 - France
2 - Italy
2 - Greece
2 - Australia
1 - Portugal
2 - Crimea/Ukraine
2 - South America
Total - 17
Furs -
3 - Western Russia
4 - Eastern Russia
3 - Eastern Siberia
3 - Eastern Canada
4 - Western Canada
Total - 18
Dyes -
3 - Southern Iran
3 - Central America
2 - Babylon
3 - Indochina
2 - Congo
3 - West Amazon
total - 16
Incense -
5 - Middle East
3 - South West China
2 - India
3 - Japan
2 - Arabian Peninsula
2 - South Egypt/Sudan
total - 17
Spices -
4 - Philippines
4 - Indonesia
3 - Indochina
2 - India
3 - New Guinea
Total - 16
Ivory
3 - South Africa
2 - South Congo
6 - Subsaharan central Africa
4 - Subsaharan West Africa
2 - India
Total - 17
Silks
5 - China
3 - Indochina
2 - Taiwan
4 - South America
2 - Kyushu
Total - 16
Gems
4 - South Africa
1 - India
3 - Western China/Kazakhstan
2 - Australia
2 - Southamerica
4 - Congo Region
Total - 16
 Attachment: satya's world map v5.8.zip
This has been downloaded 112 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
narmox
|
|
Canada
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
|
|
hm, map at version 5.8 already!?!?!?!?!? whoa.
well, anyways...
For those who'd like for all civs to start in their correct position (and I haven't checked if this has been provided before), here's a c3b file for use with civ3breed 0.46 and satya's worldmap v. 5.3:
http://www.multimania.com/narmox/civ3/map53.c3b
|
|
| |
|
|
|
warlon
|
|
Copenhagen, Denmark
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kaptnwakky
I leave for a few days and the map jumps from 5.2 to 5.7 - pretty impressive. However I noticed that whoever upgraded post 5.2 must have either not liked the geographic changes to the west coast USA or not used them. I took the liberty of incorporating these changes into 5.7 so that the Rockies are well defined and the great basin exists. Also the resources were from an older map so I changed a few of them to represent more accurate production centers and dropped quatities to the following - I also included what civs are most likely to get those resources. If anyone decides to make more changes please do it with the updated geography - its a real pain to incorporate multiple maps. Also I attached map 5.8 which has all the changes in it.
Horses -
2 - north america (Iroquois/Americans Disputed)
1 - spain (French)
1 - France (French)
1 - Germany (Germans)
1 - Subsaharan africa (Zulu)
2 - Anatolia (Babylonians/Persians)
2 - Eastern Europe (Germans/Greeks)
2 - European Russia (Russians)
2 - Persia (Persians)
2 - Asian Russia (Russians/Persians)
3 - Mongolia (Chinese)
1 - China (Chinese)
Total = 20
|
Sounds good
quote:
Iron -
1 - Pacific Northwest (Iroquois)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
1 - Appalachians (Americans)
1 - Morroco/Algeria (Egyptians)
1 - Pyrenees (French)
1 - UK (English)
1 - West France (French/Germans disputed)
1 - North Italy (Romans)
3 - Scandinavia (Germans/Unclaimed)
1 - North West Congo (Zulus)
1 - Anatolia (Babylon/Greek disputed)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Black Sea Region (Russians)
1 - North Korea (Chinese)
1 - Hokkaido (Japanese)
1 - Persia (Persians)
Total = 22
|
Japan's iron should be south not north, to help their starting captital.
There should be Iron in the rhineland, and not in Western France.
Too many iron in Scandinavia. Would be better to add some more into USA.
quote:
Saltpeter -
1 - Utah (Americans/Iroquois Disputed)
1 - Baja California (Aztecs)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
2 - Poland (Germany)
1 - Alps (Germans/Romans Disputed)
2 - West Sahara (Unclaimed)
1 - North Africa (Egyptians)
1 - Egypt (Egyptians)
1 - Red Sea (Egyptians)
1 - Anatolia (Greeks/Babylonians Disputed)
2 - Gobi Desert (Chinese)
1 - West China (Chinese)
1 - West Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - Spain (French)
Total - 18
Coal -
2 - UK (English)
1 - West Germany (Germans)
1 - Rhineland (French)
1 - Poland (Germans)
2 - Urals (Russians)
2 - Appalachians (Americans)
2 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - New Zealand (Unclaimed)
1 - European Russia (Russians)
Total - 17
Oil -
1 - Alaska (Unclaimed)
1 - Texas (America/Aztec Disputed)
1 - Central/Southern Canada (Iroquois)
1 - Mexico (Aztec)
1 - North Africa (Egypt)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
1 - Indonesia (Unclaimed)
5 - Saudia Arabia/Babylon (Babylonians/Persians Disputed)
3 - Caucuses/North Caspian Sea Region (Russians/Persians Disputed)
1 - Central Russia (Russians)
1 - Western China (Chinese)
Total - 17
Rubber -
4 - Amazon Region (North America Disputed)
2 - Congo (Zulu)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
6 - Malaysia/South Pacific (Unclaimed)
1 - Australia (Unclaimed)
3 - Indochina (China/India Disputed)
Total - 17
Aluminum -
1 - France (French)
1 - Italy (Romans)
2 - Greece (Greeks)
1 - Hungary (Germans)
1 - Caucuses (Russians/Babylonians Disputed)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Unclaimed)
1 - Subsaharan Central Africa (Zulu)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - Indochina (Indians/Chinese Disputed)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
2 - South America (Aztecs/Americans Disputed)
1 - Southern US (Americans)
Total - 17
|
quote:
Uranium -
1 - Balkans
2 - Siberia
1 - France
1 - Congo Region
1 - Madagascar
1 - Sahara
1 - India
1 - Western China
1 - Southern China
2 - Australia
2 - South America
1 - Eastern Canada
2 - Southwest US
Total - 17
|
There is NO uranium in southern China. Japan should have 1 uranium to represent their great leap from 1950's into modern economy and give them some bonus from their initial bad starting position.
quote:
Wines -
2 - California
4 - France
2 - Italy
2 - Greece
2 - Australia
1 - Portugal
2 - Crimea/Ukraine
2 - South America
Total - 17
Furs -
3 - Western Russia
4 - Eastern Russia
3 - Eastern Siberia
3 - Eastern Canada
4 - Western Canada
Total - 18
Dyes -
3 - Southern Iran
3 - Central America
2 - Babylon
3 - Indochina
2 - Congo
3 - West Amazon
total - 16
Incense -
5 - Middle East
3 - South West China
2 - India
3 - Japan
2 - Arabian Peninsula
2 - South Egypt/Sudan
total - 17
Spices -
4 - Philippines
4 - Indonesia
3 - Indochina
2 - India
3 - New Guinea
Total - 16
Ivory
3 - South Africa
2 - South Congo
6 - Subsaharan central Africa
4 - Subsaharan West Africa
2 - India
Total - 17
Silks
5 - China
3 - Indochina
2 - Taiwan
4 - South America
2 - Kyushu
Total - 16
Gems
4 - South Africa
1 - India
3 - Western China/Kazakhstan
2 - Australia
2 - Southamerica
4 - Congo Region
Total - 16 |
What happened to the 5.5, 5.6 and 5.7 changes to geography?
Why are lotsa cattle and other bonus resources removed from Japan, UK, China, Russia and central Europe? Instead adding to USA and there? Rivers removed in Southeastern Asia.
Generally I feel that the setbacks outweigh the improvements.
I didn't have the time to comment on all of the resources though.
I will make a 5.9 or later version if someone makes a version before me be done. Incorparating some of your changes kaptwannsky and some other new improvements in Australia making it bigger.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DaemonGate
|
|
Austin, Texas
Nov 2001
time: 05:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by satyajedi
I'm finding in my games that there are way too many resources on this map, so much so that it limits trading and discourages competition. Are other people finding this as well? |
Very very much so.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
warlon
|
|
Copenhagen, Denmark
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
|
|
For all the other maps out there I think this map is the best and most realistically done map of the world. The landshapes are really good done and the resources are good considering what alot of other maps have to offer. 
Last edited by warlon on 06-12-2001 at 00:10
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Alexandre Madeira
|
|
Viseu
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
|
|
Ok, I agree with warlon and HsFB.
Some luxury monopolization would be a good idea (some, not all). Silks for instance should only be in the east (China mostly).
Also think the setbacks outweigh the improvements, where did the latest changes go?
Please, when you start work on a map update, if you think it will take more than 5 minutes, post saying you're working on an update. And when you upload, let everyone know what version you're updating from.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kaptnwakky
|
|
My apologies since I updated from 5.2 - I found that 5.7 had been updated on a map before 5.2 and so what I thought were important changes to geography in 5.2 such as the western U.S were lost. I thus went thru 5.7 and took as much as I could find and changed 5.2 to look like 5.7. I guess I must have missed a bunch of stuff.
--Luxury monopolization is a good thing in theory - however what happens I've found is that when civ has more than 3+ of either a luxury resource or strategic resource they simply hoard it and refuse to share. This wasn't a problem with most resources as they spread evenly - three in particular did not spread well historically and so I had to "make them up" - these were spices, silks and wines - I think I fixed wine and put silks in South America to give the america some kind of luxury other than fur. It also gives reason to colonize Southern South America.
--I am against increasing Australia's Size - not that I don't like australia but that it is smaller in size than Europe - Autralia is only 7.6 million square kilometers while Europe is 10 million. If australia is increased in size, I think it will be disproportionate.
--Was/is there Uranium in Japan today? If not, I don't believe they should get any. Also Iron was placed in Hokkaido because there is today a large amount of Iron up there that is mined - or there was in 1980 which is when my atlas is from.
--With regards to general placement of Resources - I found that when too many are placed near each other - you get "super cities" who get a whole bunch of trade/production from them. I tried to space them out in the process.
Thats all - sorry for my long posts
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Globber
|
|
Excellent, excellent map. gonna start new game. I was just looking through it and if India gets put in the right place, it's gonna be completely F*cked by like 5 barb camps at the beginning of the game. I play with raging barbs, so India would be completely wiped out, being religious and commercial, I think. cut down a bit on the barbs there and it will be fine.. Also, add a bit more oil in Texas. one doesn't cut it. Don't mess with Texas. Otherwise, great job
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Xentropy
|
|
Sorry if this was already inquired about, since in 8 pages of stuff, most of which is invalid in the latest version of the map, I really didn't bother reading everything, but....
Why are there horses in the Americas? They should be removed for historical accuracy. Iroquois and Americans can fight with archers until those mysterious Europeans appear with their great four legs.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
satyajedi
|
|
I understand not wanting to read through all of that! :-) There has been a pretty long-running debate about areas of the world that produce a resource, but only because it has been brought in by other people. Horses in America is one example; wine in California or Austrailia is another. Honestly, I feel somewhat ambiguous about whether to use either of them. On one hand, obviously, they wouldn't be producers of those goods if it were not for European intervention; on the other hand, it would not be accurate to have Spain, France and Italy have a monopoly on wine, when the reality is they face a great deal of competition for that resource from Austrailia, Chile and California. Anyway. I think in the end it comes down to gameplay.
I'm working on a redesign at the moment, focusing on the distribution of resources. I'm trying for four goals:
1. to limit the number of resources as much as possible;
2. to equalize starting locations as much as possible;
3. to encourage monopolies (although not exclusively) to encourage trade;
4. to position resources in competitive areas, to encourage resource driven combat, including in the "uncivilized" areas of Austrailia and South America.
Obviously, real distribution of resources is very important to me, but it is not going to be the controlling factor in this redesign.
-Satya
PS - Excellent that we have a South American on the board!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
gilesgd
|
|
New user with a fresh outlook. If or when Firaxis fixes the starting locations for the civilizations it really doesn't make a difference to me if the resources are geologically accurate. If the placement of resources improves the gameplay, I'm for it. I just don't want to get wrapped up haggling over where someone placed an oil or didn't place wheat.
Greg
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kaptnwakky
|
|
How few resources were you planning on reducing them to Satya? I am against reducing them to below 16 - Also take into consideration that with the new patch, you can only have 512 total cities on the map and with the rate at which the AI expands its a race to build cities, so some of the smaller civs like the Europeans are bound to get bumped out by large civs such as the americans or russians.
Also, with all the programs to change start locations, is it really necessary to have fixed start locations?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
satyajedi
|
|
I have now uploaded version 6.0. It contains many significant changes, some of which are likely to be somewhat unpopular but I think add to the gameplay and accuracy of the map.
First, resources have been greatly reduced, everywhere. The total number of resources are now as follows:
Horses 16
Iron 18
Coal 16
Aluminum 17
Salpeter 17
Rubber 17
Oil 17
Uranium 12
Gems 17
Fur 14
Wine 12
Dye 13
Incense 11
Spices 12
Ivory 12
Silk 12
There are several goals in these numbers. First, the world cannot sustain too many nuclear powers, and virtually none who are not colonial powers; I think this is significant. Second, luxeries are just that, luxeries. There is no way every civ can have every luxery and it will probably be a dramatic challenge for any civ to get more than 3 or so luxery items. Further, no civ has easy access to every strategic resource, so no civ will be able to easily progress without paying through trade or conquest.
Second, three civs have changed their starting places:
- China has again been moved to the old capital of Nanking, to -give Japan a chance at Korea and Manchuria,
- Babylon has been moved to the coast of the Persian Gulf, in part because
- Persia has been moved away from Tehran, and to the ancient capital of Persepolis. Two things I've been most unsatisfied about is the inadequacy of Persia and Greece and the overwhelming advantage of India. This move resonds to all three concerns. To the former, Persia is now actually in Iran, as opposed to a Central Asian civilization centered on the Caspian. Now, Persia begins very close to the Persian Gulf, preventing India from easily expanding past the Kush and allowing Greece a major advantage in moving into Asia Minor. The only downside is that Persia and Babylon start *very* close together. But I guess that's why they call it the cradle of civilization.
Third, the agriculture in China and Russia has been reduced, especially the area east of Moscow.
Fourth, and perhaps most contraversially, I have made several rule changes in the hopes of making England and Japan more competitive:
- Japan, while still militaristic / religious now begins with the same advances as England (Alphabet and Pottery) instead of Ceremonial Burial and the Wheel. Obviously, this only applies if you use the correct starting spaces. And, in a related move
- the requirements for Mapmaking have been reduced to the earlier requirements of Civ II -- Alphabet and Pottery. IMO, this requirement is too strict to account for civs with as small a starting space as England or Japan.
Finally, I've included an updated .c3b file. This program seems to work very well, I highly recommend it.
-Satya
|
|
| |
|
|
|
warlon
|
|
Copenhagen, Denmark
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
|
|
interesting changes.
Some of Kaptn's changes were lost ... in particular the Rocky mountains change. I will make a 6.1 with the resource placement and the rocky mountains change. ( Rivers and that was done alot better in 5.8 regarding USA than 5.7 which you obviously updated from).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
warlon
|
|
Copenhagen, Denmark
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
|
|
Okay I have updated the 6.0 with the changes in 5.8 regarding the rocky mountains placement and rivers around there.
Noteworthy stuff that has been changed includes creating the massif centrale in France, the Indus valley, remodification of Finland, Mexico and Denmark.
Small resource placement changes have also been done. Adding oil fx to Mexico. Here is a list of the strategic and luxury resource placement :
EU is the area from GB to Ural mountains to Caucasus to Bospurus. North America is including Mexico and American Isles. Middleeast is from turkey to Suez, including central Asia and India. Asia is Japan and China and Eastern Russia, Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore. Pacific is Australia and the Islands around there. South America is South America.
abbrevations:
NA = North America, EU = Europe, ME = Middleeast, AFR = Africa, AS = Asia, PAC = Pacific, SA = South America, SEA = South East Asia
Horses
3 - NA
8 - EU
5 - ME
2 - AS
Iron
2 - NA
1 - SA
8 - EU
1 - AFR
2 - ME
3 - AS
1 - PAC
Coal
2 - NA
8 - EU
1 - AFR
2 - ME
3 - AS
1 - PAC
Aluminium
3 - NA
3 - SA
4 - EU
2 - AFR
2 - ME
3 - PAC
Salpeter
2 - NA
2 - SA
5 - EU
1 - AFR
4 - ME
3 - AS
Rubber
1 - NA
3 - SA
2 - AFR
3 - AS
8 - PAC
Oil
3 - NA
1 - SA
2 - EU
2 - AFR
7 - ME
1 - AS
3 - PAC
Uranium
4 - NA
1 - SA
1 - EU
3 - AFR
2 - AS
3 - PAC
Gems
5 - SA
7 - AFR
1 - ME
1 - AS
1 - PAC
Fur
3 - NA
6 - SA
2 - AFR
2 - AS
Dye
3 - NA
2 - SA
2 - AFR
5 - ME
Incense
2 - AFR
6 - ME
4 - AS
Spices
5 - ME
1 - AS
7 - PAC
Ivory
9 - AFR
3 - ME
Silk
10 - AS
2 - PAC
Gold
7 - NA
1 - SA
4 - AFR
3 - PAC
I also added some barbarian huts around to balance things up, so that you would spend more time killing them in others.
1 - EU
2 - AS
Starting location for Babylonians moved more north. Starting position for Indians moved more east and north. Starting position for China moved more south and west. Start position for Iroqius moved more west.
Last edited by warlon on 14-12-2001 at 04:09
|
|
| |
|
|
|
satyajedi
|
|
I understand that old resources can die out, but there is I believe an equal (?) chance of finding a new resource as the game goes on. Anyway, even if the number drops well below 16, that's all the better in my mind. A world in which every civ can have every resource is a world without conflict.
-Satya
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pyrodrew
|
|
Whenever a resource is exhausted somewhere it reappears somewhere else on the map. This is true for custom maps & randomly generated maps.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Alexandre Madeira
|
|
Viseu
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
|
|
Looks good guys!
I just changed one thing, removed one horse from Spain and moved it to Britain. If there are no horses there, the English wont be able to build horse units for a bunch of time, either until they colonize somewhere with horses, or they establish sea trade.
Also, a couple of rivers didnt look very good, they made a loop instead of connecting to the sea.
Attachment: satya's world map v6.2.zip
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).
Last edited by Alexandre Madeira on 08-12-2001 at 21:13
|
|
| |
|
|
|
narmox
|
|
Canada
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
|
|
Am I the only one who thinks there should be at least 1 iron near Rome's starting location? I know there's some near France and Germany, but in my games I've never seen the AI go for this one... As a result, I've never seen roman legions with this map :/
|
|
| |
|
|
|
satyajedi
|
|
Well, there's the iron in Northwest Italy, which I presumed would go to Rome but would also serve as some tension with France. Are you saying France is getting to that one first?
I updated 6.2 with two small corrections:
1) the creation of the canary islands was having a small unintended effect; the coastal spaces of the canaries and Haiti / DR were now close enough to be passed with a galley. Last time that happened, the computer AI was smart enough / badly programmed enough to cross the Atlantic and the new world was contacted before 500 BC. One of the 2 islands has been removed to make this impossible.
2) Fish were spead liberally throughout the world, because for whatever reason, 6.2 had no fishes.
Other than that, this is the same as 6.2
I would really like to come out with a definitive version to give to Firaxis and see if they'd use as the official world map. We're definately getting close to the point where we are so accurate, most of the suggested changes are opinions rather than improvements, and of course opinions can go on forever. ANyway, think they'd go for it?
-Satya
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Ozymandias
|
|
Sorry to jump into the thread late & nitpick, but the work looks FANTASTIC -- the ONLY iron found in South America is of meteoric origin, therefore is of minute quantities and probably should not be included unless for play balance purposes.
Best,
Oz
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-12-2001 20:26
|