17-04-2002 04:12									#601
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Elucidus

I've just tried 2.12b but the right-click - change production crash (in coastal cities only) persists until i research astronomy.

just a comment about the aluminum/uranium icons. Well i should say icon coz there is only one. I don't like this change. In my opinion you shouldn't strip an important late game strategic resource icon just to implement some sort of fruit/marble/cotton. If you add apples, dates, fruits which all add +2 food but don't have an icon yet why don't you just use the wheat icon for them?

This is probably a moot point anyway coz the modded game becomes very unstable in the late industrial era anyway but yesterday i played an unmodded OCC game and the icon is still screwed.

cheers
Egoist

	17-04-2002 06:00									#602
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Egoist Elucidus I've just tried 2.12b but the right-click - change production crash (in coastal cities only) persists until i research astronomy. just a comment about the aluminum/uranium icons. Well i should say icon coz there is only one. I don't like this change. In my opinion you shouldn't strip an important late game strategic resource icon just to implement some sort of fruit/marble/cotton. If you add apples, dates, fruits which all add +2 food but don't have an icon yet why don't you just use the wheat icon for them? This is probably a moot point anyway coz the modded game becomes very unstable in the late industrial era anyway but yesterday i played an unmodded OCC game and the icon is still screwed. cheers Egoist

Instability is fixed with the latest version that you have. However you will need to do a few things and do them in order so the program works properly. I did this on two computers now where the game was crashing alot, fixed them both.

First remove civ3 from the computer, then go into the program files directory and kill the "infrogrames interactive folder."

After that you would want to reinstall civ3, reinstall the 1.17f patch and then reinstall the newest version of the Balancer MOD. Takes care of all the problems.

Chaing

	17-04-2002 08:48									#603
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Chaing, Thanks for the assistance. I appreciate it.

Egoist,

About the icons, I didn't like the idea to begin with myself, however a compromise was in order until a fix would be presented. I am sorry you do not like the path we have chosen, we would like to think it was the best option.

Hopefully the patch that should be realeased Friday will cover that problem and it will be a moot point. We are wishing for the patch to address a great many issues with the editor and modding in general. We have been testing the newest version of the mod, trying to get all of the little bugs and glitches out of it before we release it to the general public. It has a large number of changes that we think will enhance everyone's enjoyment of Civ3 in general, so it has taken a long time to work out the issues. It has been going pretty well the last week or two. The only other thing is we have been waiting for the latest patch to come out so we can apply the latest mod version to a freshly patched and brand new BIC. Once the patch is here we will begin porting over the currently in-testing versionof the mod.

Just so everyone is aware, I will be going on vacation starting Monday for a couple of weeks, so that may slow down the trasposition of data into the new BIC. We will see how things go and work it all out as we come to it.

	17-04-2002 09:42									#604
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hey man, I do my best to help!

Anyway I got sick of tearing out my hair trying to figure out how I could play a game past the late industrial era. And It seems I found the way to do so, only right I share it.


My system, at work (cough) ran civ3 with the latest mod perfectly fine for awhile, then all of sudden I started getting the same crashes as said above. So I went through the same process as I did at home and now everything is good again. So give it a shot and maybe it will turn out good for you as well.

I'm happy to say I've completed at least three games now with the latest release of the Balancer, without a single problem.


Chaing

	17-04-2002 20:03									#605
	Inflate your Upload Space

Glad to hear it. At about what age were you finished in those games? Just so I have an idea of how far was successfully tested.

	17-04-2002 20:18									#606
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Note I said *released* version.. heh.. finished them all around 1996-2015 in the modern era.. Had all techs and such discovered.

And have you read about the new changes for the newest fraxis patch? Woo hoo. Alot of exciting changes in there!

Chaing

	17-04-2002 23:30									#607
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Chaing, thanks for the tips. I'll try them as soon as can find the time. Hopefully i'll finally be able to finish a modded game =)

Elucidus, i'm looking forward to the new patch and your next release of the balancer mod. keep it up!

Egoist

	18-04-2002 03:10									#608
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Chaing,

I read where you said "release version" but it didn't click. Sorry.

Any problems with the beta version so far? I know you would probably have let me know via email, by now. But I am just anxious about trying to get this thing out before I go on vacation.

As far as the new patch, looks like that will fix the resource images problem, amoung other things. So it looks like it will be a busy weekend. I mean other than packing.


Everyone,

Hope you like the way the mod is going. I don't want to reveal too much yet as it may change. So far though, our testers have said they have enjoyed it even more and there haven't been any game breaker problems found, a few suggestions, some very good ones too. Not finding many problems may be good or bad, we won't know until the general populace gets their hand on it.

Last edited by Elucidus on 18-04-2002 at 03:16

	18-04-2002 10:50									#609
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

hey eluc and gang, it seems like the developers had this mod in mind when they designed 1.21. Some of the new powers the editor will have, especially when it comes to gov. specific stuff, will make this mod unbeatable!

	18-04-2002 12:40									#610
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by monkspider hey eluc and gang, it seems like the developers had this mod in mind when they designed 1.21. Some of the new powers the editor will have, especially when it comes to gov. specific stuff, will make this mod unbeatable!

Woo hoo, Monkspider still lives. But it seems those damned reds have gotten to him as well! Better be quick and call the House comittee for Unamerican Activities!

So can anyone answer a simple question here? Who exactly created this MOD? I mean I know who is in charge now, but I'm not clear on who the actual creator was. Anyway I guess that does not change the fact it does/has and will always rock!

Elucidus - Noticed a first problem with the beta version, it actually something stupid I overlooked but I'll e-mail you later with the details. Now c'mon Fraxis, whip out that patch!

Chaing

	19-04-2002 18:24									#611
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Nice to see you again Monkspider. How's it been going? How's the family?

Chaing,

Monkspider started the mod way back when. I joined it soon after. I then lost my internet connection for a while and when I came back Monkspider was gone. So I took over. He's been popping up here and there. That is pretty much the history of it.

Now to check my email again to see what is up.

	19-04-2002 21:53									#612
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have to admit I love this mod and can't wait for an update. I am currently using 2.11 when I try to download the updates IE cannot find the page. can you tell me to locate these new files like 2.12b. I have some minor issues with 2.11 but I found ways around it. For example. When I try and upgrade the iron clad to the dreadnaught it crashes everytime. I also can't change my production from the city view but I think that was mentioned. Another thing but back to my main question where is the new patch located. Thanks.

	20-04-2002 02:23									#613
	Remove this text

The 2.12A update is here.

That is if you want to download just the updates version and there is a 2.12B I belive but it isn't on our web-page yet, just on these forums. Maybe CivFanatics will work better.

The older files are not fully tested with 1.21f.

We are working on 2.15 that will be compatible. So things need to be changed to perserve the balance we are going for.

Let me know if there is anything else we can do for you.

If you want to help us test out the new version let me know.

	20-04-2002 03:32									#614
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks and I would love to help you guys test software. I have a great testing environment because I have 5 computers and that way I can test that and not interfere with my real game. Thanks. my email address is jevans@bussvc.wisc.edu.

	20-04-2002 04:00									#615
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I will send you the related info for 2.15. Give me a few to get it to you.

	20-04-2002 04:31									#616
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As this thread is over 500 posts I suggest that you, at your next update, post a new thead, and clean this up from old attachments, and then PM me and I'll do the moving and closing.

I don't want to rush you, this thread will stay open until you are ready to start a new one.

	20-04-2002 06:02									#617
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Will do. Thanks and sorry I didn't realize it was over 500 posts. I'll let you kow when it is done. But I can't clean up all of the attachments some were done, by Monkspider.

	20-04-2002 18:15									#618
	Latest Balancer beta 2.15 Tired of ads?

I have been testing Balancer 2.15 extensively with the new patch. No real problems at all, accept there still are icon issues. Not like before but still persist. No crashes at all have been found. The patch seems to have changed the feel of the game.

Currently I think the mod is coming along just fine. We are always looking for feedback too improve the mod. Let us know any problems you experience or suggestions for later updates for improvements etc.

I have noticed a much smarter AI that is slightly more aggressive in game play. The AI will no longer spread like ants all over the world. The mod has pretty much curbed this problem thanks to Elucidus. Excellent work he has done throughout all the updates. Goverment change is essential with this mod or you will loose. Simple as that. Irrigation is much more important compared to the way it used too be. With AI sprawl stopped the game is totally different. Stay tuned for the next release soon of the Balancer mod. Best dang mod around of course I am bias though I suppose

	20-04-2002 19:06									#619
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Will do. Thanks and sorry I didn't realize it was over 500 posts. I'll let you kow when it is done. But I can't clean up all of the attachments some were done, by Monkspider.

Well don't mind about that, just clear out any old versions you have posted.

	21-04-2002 06:09									#620
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*Waves*

I downloaded 2.12A before I noticed this thread (No, the link on the website is not correct still, I just typed in 12 instead of 11 to get it working, of course.), and made some changes to the BIC..

But since you're almost done with 2.15, I guess there wouldn't be much point to posting a changed 2.12A. But, I will post the list of changes I made:

Changes:

Communism has Vet diplomats, Elite spies.

Armor is wheeled. (Tanks and mobile armor already were, but you missed Armor.)

Tiny-Large World Sizes changed to 1.21f's defaults:
Tiny W60 H60 NOC4 DBC6 ONOC12 TR160
Small W80 H80 NOC6 DBC9 ONOC14 TR200
Standard W100 H100 NOC8 DBC12 ONOC16 TR240
Large W130 H130 NOC12 DBC18 ONOC24 TR320

This is 1.21f's default for Huge:
Huge W160 H160 NOC16 DBC24 ONOC32 TR400
But I left that one alone, so it's still W240 H240 NOC16 DBC32 ONOC45 TR320.
If someone wants to play a huge map, better let them, eh? :P

Technology stealing cost divided by 5. (It's 2, was 10.)

Changed Propaganda success chance to:
in awe of : 80%
admirers of: 60%
impressed with: 30%

The rest stayed the same as before (10%, 5%, 3%.)
This is to reflect the fact that if your culture is 3x the other guys, I find it highly likely they'd join you if you did propaganda. It was a 25%. Crazy!

I also changed "admirers of", which is 2x culture comparison, b/c if you've got 2x their culture, again, they may want to join your nation. Of course, if it's less, (1x or better), the odds shouldn't be that great, 30% is fine.

Okay. I've given radar artillery lethal sea bombardment, reflecting it's ability to basically smash whatever it can detect.

I've given missle frigates lethal land and sea bombardment. They're the only ordinary unit with that (Cruise missles being the only other unit at all that are lethal to land units).

Bombers have lethal sea bombardment, so do stealth bombers.

Cruise missles have lethal land and sea bombardment.

Added the retreat bonuses from 1.21f.
Conscript: 34
Regular: 50
Veteran: 58
Elite: 66

Monotheism, Feudalism, Theology, Invention, Printing Press, Music Theory, Education, Banking, Astronomy, Chemistry, Economics, Navigation, Physics, Metallurgy, Theory of Gravity, and Magnetism research costs changed from their 1.17f values to the 1.21f values.
Democracy and Military Tradition were left alone, since their tech cost was not at the 1.17f value.
(Democracy was 90, in 1.17f it is 60, in 1.21f, 68.)
(Military Tradition was 60, in 1.17f it is 68, in 1.21f, 64.)

Turn penalties for hurry sacrifice and drafting were left alone (They were 30 and 20, respectivly. In 1.17f, they were both 40, in 1.21f, they were both 20.)

Nuclear Subs have been given the "Naval Power" AI use, as per 1.21f.

AI to AI trade rates have been reduced to 100 (they charge the same for other AIs as for human players) for Chieftan, Warlord, and Regent, and to 110 for Monarch, 120 for Emperor, and 130 for Diety.

I hope you'll consider putting some of these changes in 2.15.

	21-04-2002 06:09									#621
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well everything except the latest stuff is gone. I will remove the last of it when I make another post for the new version...

	21-04-2002 06:13									#622
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Also, I wouldn't mind testing 2.15 myself. I haven't actually played with 2.12A, and with the reported problems here, I think I'd rather wait until (or test) 2.15. (Time to restore all the original civ III 1.21f files - I backed them all up before installing 2.12A :P)

	21-04-2002 06:17									#623
	Got spare money?

Shadowlord,

At least half of what you mentioned is already in 2.15 Beta. But I may not be able to get it out before I go one leave, so if you could post it I would be appreciative. I definately want to thank you for updating it to the patch. For some reason I updating 2.15 thinking I would get it out before then, but the patch raised a lot of issues for it that wwe may not be able to resolve quickly. Thankk you again.

	21-04-2002 06:19									#624
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Shadowlord, send me an email here and I'll send you what you need for 2.15...

	21-04-2002 06:27									#625
	Okay Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Okay. I've attached a ZIP file containing just the modified 2.12A BIC to this post.

I'd like to emphasize that I have not tested this, at all.

Attachment: civ3mod.zip
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	21-04-2002 06:33									#626
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ok, email sent.

	23-04-2002 10:58									#627
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by ChaingKaiShek Woo hoo, Monkspider still lives. But it seems those damned reds have gotten to him as well! Better be quick and call the House comittee for Unamerican Activities!

Thanks for the kind words Eluc, the Mrs. is good, we're getting settled in and so forth. I'm happy to see that the Balancer is still being taken to new heights. Keep up the good work!

	23-04-2002 16:27									#628
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ok, I downloaded this mod but I have few questions.


The main question is about AI...
How does the AI react for this changes? Does it build those new thing too? Is the game now easier than before and should I know something abot AI reactions now?

I have also downloaded new units from civfanatics like tanks etc... so can I add those new units to mod without getting any errors or crashes and if I want to delete those new units who has not new animations because I dont like to watch same units with different power so can I do it without getting crashes or problems?

well my english is now very well but I hope you get my point...

	23-04-2002 16:38									#629
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

hmm I little look those changes and I noticed that in science_middle.pcx file. There are few citizen faces? is this bug or something? and I downloaded version 2.12A

	28-04-2002 05:13									#630
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well bud, I am on vacation so can only be of limited help for now.

I don't understand what you mean in your last post, could you reiterate for me. As far as tyhe changes made, the AI has been going nuts using them so far.

As long as you add the units correctly there should be no problems at all. Good luck and let me know what else you need. Thanks.