22-03-2002 07:17									#511
	wierd? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Elucidus
Desert Dog,

I checked your save file and had no problems. How many turns did it take for you to experience the crash? I played about ten.

It crashed 1200 ad about midway. I reloaded the game and played for about 10 turns myself. When I quit I received and error report that civ3 caused.
Sorry I should have tried to reload, every other situation it never worked reloading the crashed game? I will start another game on higher level to test it better now that I know what your mod does basically.

	22-03-2002 07:48									#512
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

About that error after you exit, it will take a lot of work to fix that, probably what I will be doing all of next week. Right now I would like to finish up 2.11 so I can release it by tomorrow.

Since you've played it through quite a ways, any suggestions? Other than the crossbowman thing you mentioned. Any kind of feedback would be appreciated.

Oh and about restarting, maybe you should finish up what you have now, as tomorrow's release won't be compatible with the saves from the previous version.

	22-03-2002 10:50									#513
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well this is interesting. I did some more modding and added a couple of things, and when I tested some of it out and exited the game it did not crash on exit. After adding some things I used Graphos multitool to reorg some units, maybe his tool fixed the problem.

Although this may have just been a fluke I don't know.

	22-03-2002 18:11									#514
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Oh and about restarting, maybe you should finish up what you have now, as tomorrow's release won't be compatible with the saves from the previous version.

I need two weeks to play a single save.

	22-03-2002 20:59									#515
	Testing Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Well this is interesting. I did some more modding and added a couple of things, and when I tested some of it out and exited the game it did not crash on exit. After adding some things I used Graphos multitool to reorg some units, maybe his tool fixed the problem. Although this may have just been a fluke I don't know.

That is wierd but with patches still coming I suspect many wierd things have cropped up with everyone doing mods.
If you want to pre-test your mod before posting let me know. I am here 24/7. Sometimes sick as hell but most of the time I am doing something on my PC.

I still want to see the Privateer have a modern upgrade. I like the name Corporate Raider. It is a term from wall street. It is an investor that force buys out a company and dismantles it peice by peice selling all they can. I use my Privateer's to mess with the AI preventing them from expanding. I set my Privateer's at 5/3/5 they upgrade should be only a slight increase in fire power maybe 7/3/6 or 7/4/6. Maybe you can come up with a nice graphic for this purpose. I used the Frigate before it worked fine. I really love the Ship of line unit. I like all of the units so far.

One more thing - The Carrier should have ability to transport 8-10 aircraft. Real carriers hold a bunch of planes. Having only 4 per carrier is silly.

I think the helicopter should be able to carry 2-3 units with at least a 2/1/6 fire ability. I have never seen a combat helicopter that did not have some offense ability.

All ships should have extra move points for those Hugh 240x240 worlds you implemented. It took me almost 1000 years to travel across a world this size. Galley is fine at 3, caravel should be around 4-5 and increase each new ship by one until all new ships are researched. Small worlds this may be a problem but playing on large and Hugh worlds this has to be done.

I really like the units but they still do not progress through the ages properly, I mean some units advance to fast others too slow. If that makes any sense at all.

I think they difficulty levels need to be more gradual. I play chieftain to regent only. Warlord and regent levels are very tough if you have restless tribes checked. I have the difficulty levels 5 born happy chieftain, 4 warlord, and so on up to top level. I know that many of you are excellent players and are trying to make the game even harder. I think most players are not this good. My opinion maybe I am alone. Later.

	22-03-2002 21:10									#516
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't have the foresight to realize we would need to add dummy units and buildings so it wouldn't invalidate the save games. This newer version has an extra 9 units and 9 buildings to allow for growth.

Hopefully that will be enough for a while. So ignore entries for bldgs/units ZZ1-9 in the civiliopedia.

	22-03-2002 21:57									#517
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

DD,

The one unit I have not added yet is a possible upgrade for the privateer. I like the concept, but haven't gotten to it yet.

I haven't had a lot of Modern Unit experience as before I get that far I am up to another release that nullifies my save. So I am not sure about the carrier, we'll see.


The helicopter remains as is, I belive it is to represent a tranport heleicopter and not an attack helicopter. However we have added an attack helicopter.

I believe you will be happy with the new ship movement. I agree with what you said and have already made the changes...I was finishing up the new settings yesterday. If there are problems with smaller maps and these new settings I need someone to let me know.

As far as unit progression if you could give me some examples, that would help.

	22-03-2002 22:40									#518
	one more thing Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Whenever I get an error on exit the game will crash fatally either industrial or modern times. I should enter modern times sometime this morning to test my theory.

Korn did an excellent job with most of the military units with HP etc. I agree about the helicopter not being an attack helicopter. Having only a 2 rating it nothing compared to the heavy units available by this time. Being able to carry 2-3 units is a needed thing. Just one is not realistic in my opinion.

The unit progression just needs some tweaking that is all. Example the warrior stays around way to long. I mean he is cave age type of man. He should disappear very early in the game. maybe middle ages. Regular ancient spearmen should not be built at all after Industrial times or maybe earlier. Not very good examples but I hope you see what I mean.
Some of the techs are the same way. Not to mention the AI does not seem to build wonders very much at all in most of my games.

Everyone's mods have helped these issues to one degree or another. Maybe I am just trying to be too picky

	23-03-2002 00:34									#519
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Being picky is good. We are working on a theory with the combat values. I spoke to Korn a while back about his method. He doesn't mind if we adopt his method, but I would like to try something else first. If you do want to become a tester you would be involved in this.

Also I understand what you are saying about the helicopter, but let's see how the Apache works out. It has a decent attack and defense and can transport 1 unit (the other helicopter is two or three, I don't remember).

I know for a fact that the spearman disappears rather early and the warrior is only around when there are no resources available to a new city. I agree with you though.


BTW, the AI builds wonders like mad in my game. What level are you playing at?

	23-03-2002 03:32									#520
	level of play Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Being picky is good. We are working on a theory with the combat values. I spoke to Korn a while back about his method. He doesn't mind if we adopt his method, but I would like to try something else first. If you do want to become a tester you would be involved in this. Cool looking forward to this since the biggest flaw is military imbalance ******************************************** Also I understand what you are saying about the helicopter, but let's see how the Apache works out. It has a decent attack and defense and can transport 1 unit (the other helicopter is two or three, I don't remember). Okay I still think there should be some offense maybe only 1/1 and whatever for the Apache. Cool you are adding that. I love the units in the mod so far great job ******************************************** I know for a fact that the spearman disappears rather early and the warrior is only around when there are no resources available to a new city. I agree with you though. It may just be me looking at it wrong or maybe not upgrading when I actually can? ******************************************** BTW, the AI builds wonders like mad in my game. What level are you playing at?

I play Warlord the most, sometimes Regent. I test mods on Chieftain first then go back start another game on warlord or regent. (Korn's mod on chieftain I am a whimp) On warlord there are some wonders they seem to delay building when they could. The Great Library is one that the AI can build but I always beat them. I bet most play at Regent level at least. I am pathetic I guess Peace

	23-03-2002 04:37									#521
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I play regent, usually with 12 AIs.

Actually, I'm very lucky if I'm able to get two or more wonders in each era, because in this mod you can't switch to the palace or the forbidden palace anymore (they are too cheap ... but I like it).

If anyone builds my wonder and there is no other wonder to build, I loose all my shields and can start again a few turns later.

	23-03-2002 06:19									#522
	Got spare money?

On Chieftan and Warlord the AI is less agressive with the wonders, but with Regent and up I find it hard to turn out a few wonders unless I have an excellent starting location.

It also depends on how many civs you play with like Tori said (well insinuated by stated how many she plays with).

	23-03-2002 11:21									#523
	2.11 is here Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Just to let everyone know the new version is out. I hope I didn't let anything slip by, as I have a tremendous headache that won't quite and I am having a hard time concentrating today.

Well, if there are any problems let me know and I will fix 'em right away.

Since I added Mizaq's New Wonder Splashes the file has about doubled in size. If someone would like to have a copy of the mod without the extra wondersplashes, send me an email. Also because of the size of the file I have uploaded two different formats. If you have a program that can read .rar format, like Winrar, then you can download the smaller rar file.

Zip (8.2MB)

Rar (6.8MB)


Also for anyone who wants to uninstall I have a copy of the original files that this mod overwrites. It does not remove additional files or anything though. Get it here.



Here is the current readme (Again, I hope I didn't miss anything as I updated this today with my massive headache):


------------------------------
The Balancer

2.11(000)

22-Mar-2002

Creators:
Elucidus
Rhuarc
------------

Questions? Comments? contact me at elucidus_healfire@yahoo.com

(Note: Not all graphics for the new items have been finished. Some units reuse older graphics. Mostly the missing graphics are Wonder Splashes and building queue icons, maybe a few civilipedia icons. If you see a generic pic with "To Be Added" or just a generic building icon then that is something we are working on. If it shows up as a blank picture, let us know as that is a glich. As I release the graphics patches they will be numbered (001, 002, etc...) I will also update the full install with them and anotate the latest files included in it. 2.1 beta (003) for example. If you have a better way for us to track this, please let me know.



NOTE: BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE, EXTRACT THESE FILES TO THE ROOT DIRECTORY OF YOUR CIVILIZATION III FOLDER

Also note: An in-game known issues list was included in the civilopedia for your convenience. If you are unsure of weather we are aware of a possible issue you are having, please check there first. In the civilopedia go to the "Concepts" area. In there you will see a tab named Balancer Mod (the only tab with it's own icon). In that tab we will list any known issues with the mod. As of now there are no known game-breaking issues, just graphics and such.

First, I have to say that this mod was started by Monkspider. He created it, but since I haven't heard from him in a long while (read: months), and I was working on it with him regularly, I took it over. Also, we need to thank others who have had an impact as well. Special Thanks to Anunikoba, Korn469, Chegitz Guevara, Yaga, Pydodrew, Cian, d-audi, SilentBob, Kromwel, java4me, Wite Rabbit, thomsonlau, Desert Dog, Tori Synthetik, Mizaq and Harlan for the help or inspiration that they have provided.

*WesW has contributed a great deal and special thanks go out to him for that. If it weren't for him this mod would not be as well developed as it is. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us.

The biggest thanks I have to give are to other modders whose mods I have included in this version, including graphics mods. If any of them wish me to remove their files or the information I have listed is incorrect simply let me know and I will fix the problem. If I forgot to mention anyone, let me know. Thanks go out to all of you:

Sevorak's More City Names mod
Mizaq's Wonder Splash Upgrade/Mod
TVA1's Battlewagon Unit Graphics (We used it for the Dreadnaught)
Bonedoc's Apache Unit Graphics (We used it for the Attack Helicopter)
Pesoloco's Engineer Unit Graphics
Darksheer's Crossbowman and Modern Frigate Unit Graphics (We used this for the Missile Frigate)
Kryten's Horse Archer
SpencerH's New Catapult Attack Animation and Fire Galley Unit Graphics
Kal-el's Grunt Unit Graphics (We used it for the US Ranger)

Thank you for all for your great work, it helped make this mod what it is today.

I hope you enjoy it as much as we have enjoyed making it.
Have fun!



For version history, see History.txt

2.11 changes: (My notes from 2.1 and 2.11 got mixed together, so I hope I have everything updated here).
- General Change
-- Added place holders for future units, techs, buildings, resources, etc... named ZZ1-20, these items should not appear
in the game other than the civilopedia. If they do, contact me immidately and send me the save game
-- All civs get a colonist starting unit. This is to help the human player (computers plop down where they start) find a
good spot. This is the only colonist they get, unless they are expansionist.
-- Golden Age changed to 25 Years, I don't know maybe I'm just greedy.
-- Shield value in gold up from 4 to 6 gold. This is because with capitalization it reduces it to half, and I think 2 is
too much. This was changed long ago from 8 to 4.
-- Raise the turn penalty for rushing from 20 to 30 turns; this is to help against pop-rushing


- Governments

-- Fascism
--- Free units reduced from 3/5/8 to 2/3/5, but they get 25 free units. This is to make fascism great for smaller
civs, but not for larger ones.
--- Assimilation % reduced to 0%, Fascists don't assimilate they get rid of those that aren't like them
--- Rate cap reduced to 6 (from 7), this is to help detract prolonged use

-- Communism
--- Rate cap raised to 7 (from 6), give communism a more prolonged life
--- Free units raised from 2/4/6 to 3/5/8, they get 10 free units. This is to allow them to be better with larger
nations

-- Democracy
--- Free units raised to 1/1/1, this is to help the balancing of democracy. As it stands most don't like it

-- Despotism
--- Worker rate reduced to 1 (workers are only 50% effective)

-- City State
--- Changed from values at 2/4/6 to 1/2/3, they get 10 free units. If this is supposed to be for smaller nations (as
city states were) it makes more sense to have lower values.

-- Theocracy (this is where I tried something completely new)
--- Doesn't require building maintenance (meaning all buildings are free).
--- Free units reduced to 0/0/0, they get 0 free units
--- Units costs raised to 3/unit

-- Anarchy
--- Removed the Standard Tile Penalty, hopefully this will convince people to try switching gov'ts more often


- Units

-- Added
--- Prisoner (I was going to make it the POW, but didn't want to offend anyone), this is the unit that is captured, it
can do anything a worker can do and can build a city as well. You cannot get this unit any other way.
--- Engineer, this is an upgrade to the settler and the worker. It is like a prisoner but buildable and with 2 moves
--- Fire Galley, this is a normal galley, but with a 2 attack and defense and can only carry one unit
--- Dreadnaught, a precursor to the battleship, this unit upgrades from the destroyer and to the battleship
--- Missile Frigate, this is a weaker version of the battleship, but it is the only naval unit with ZOC
--- Attack Helicopter, this is a fighter helicopter as opposed to a transport

-- Changed
--- Renamed the Scout to Explorer, available to non-expansionist civs, removed All-terrain-as-roads, 2 Moves
--- Renamed the Explorer to Pioneer, available to Expansionists only, All-terrain-as-roads, 1 move
--- Hoplite reduced to 1/3/1 from 2/3/1

-- Naval Units
--- I have upped all naval movement, the modern ones now have double what they were


- Wonders

-- Added
--- Einstein's Lab (2x research output)
--- Arc de Triumph (Replaces Statue of Liberty as the Reduces War-Weariness for Democracies wonder)
--- Internet (A modern day great library)

-- Changed
--- Statue of Liberty (Doubles City Defenses, Gain an Aqueduct in every city)

	23-03-2002 18:34									#524
	problem maybe? Tired of ads?

Hey man I was checking out your latest mod 2.11. I noticed that you have captured units set to tactical nukes? I am sure you did not mean to allow this?

Last edited by Desert Dog on 23-03-2002 at 19:11

	23-03-2002 19:18									#525
	Tired of ads?

Yes, I have noticed that too a few moments ago, could be a funny game to play

	23-03-2002 20:56									#526
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Tactical Nukes? What the hell? Hold on.

	23-03-2002 21:01									#527
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I know what happened and am uploading a fix.

I made the captured unit the prisoner before I moved the units with the Civ3MultiTool. The editor then kept the unit that is now in place of the prisoner.

Sorry. I'll let you know when the fix is up.

	23-03-2002 21:03									#528
	Got spare money?

Okay the fix is up.

Download it here

And I'm really sorry about that guys. Hope nothing elae slipped by.

Last edited by Elucidus on 23-03-2002 at 21:11

	23-03-2002 21:15									#529
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay I uploaded two new full downloads as well. So if you downloaded the mod before now you need to get the fix, otherwise just download as normal. Again sorry about that slip.

	23-03-2002 21:20									#530
	maybe one more thing? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Okay the fix is up. Download it here And I'm really sorry about that guys. Hope nothing else slipped by.

Try building a Hugh world with only 8 civs? Go make a sandwich is all I can say
I pick a starting location that was on land by itself. I played till 3050 B.C. and the game crashes fatally right afterward. I reloaded the game this time still crashes. I did give myself extra tech and personal name. I think maybe there are too many extra slots.

Another thing I remember someone telling me that the -1 values for building certain improvements etc. does not work correctly. I would remove those replace with unhappy faces.

One more point I love all the extra wonders but I doubt seriously all of them will be built, but who knows. Seems like a lot of duplication on wonder effects and improvements. I assume you plan to refine everything once the mod is working?

	23-03-2002 21:28									#531
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DD, can you send me a copy of your save? As I hadn't crashed or taken a long time int he past. Although, I just had a thought. Maybe the way I have the dummy techs set up the computer is getting them and mass producing the free units. I will check this out.

Do you mean -1 culture and things, or something else?

Also I do plan on refinning the wonders in the near future, but like you said, I would like everything to work correctly first.

	23-03-2002 21:39									#532
	Yes I will email it Tired of ads?

I think the extra slots you have added has got to be the problem. Did not have the same problem in past mods without this. Maybe remove those extra and add them in as you update later?

Yeah the -1 for culture etc does not function correctly or something like that. Korn I think is the one advising me not to use them.
I saw some other things I thought could be changed. I will look after you see what the problem is and possibly upload y.a.f.!

	23-03-2002 22:04									#533
	Tired of ads?

I would have to agree with you that that is the problem, although I have not determined that through testing. You see I tested it with a few pkace holders to see if I could do it without anyone being able to use them. Then after I figured out that it worked I added a bunch more. Sorry about that.

After I get your savegame I will use that to help me determine the exact problem.

	24-03-2002 01:07									#534
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well I found out the problem with the crash. I missed some stuff with the Prisoner unit. I have uploaded a fix here

Let me know if this helps or not.

EDIT: Actually it was that I forgot to remove writings icon as 82 when I added new techs. Sorry. See what happens when I do too much with a headache.

Last edited by Elucidus on 24-03-2002 at 01:25

	25-03-2002 00:29									#535
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I found out that the icon I made for the Fire Galley is crashing the game. I think this should clear everything up. Get the patch here.

I'm sorry about these little problems. But that is everything fixed.

Next time I will delay the release for a day or so when I have a headache like that (yes I blame the headache for this, it couldn't have been me).

If anyone has any other poroblems let me know.

	25-03-2002 00:31									#536
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Perhaps you should think about giving the mod to some beta-testers first.

Hey, I always get a "file not found" message when I try to download your latest fix.

Last edited by Tori on 25-03-2002 at 02:50

	25-03-2002 05:29									#537
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Tori Perhaps you should think about giving the mod to some beta-testers first.

I thought we were the beta testers

	25-03-2002 05:29									#538
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Are you volunteering to be a tester? The problem was some things I added in after the fact. I copied the Galley icon and made a couple of changes to it, didn't know that would corrupt it.

The other problem was adding a few place holders, I tested it with a couple of items and it was fine, so I added more. Well that made it flip out.

It's a learning process.

Oh by the way, the file is correct. I accidentially had a space in the name. Sorry again, but afterall I am only human.

	28-03-2002 01:38									#539
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Elucidus Are you volunteering to be a tester?

Well, I don't know if I would have enough time to test all new changes in your mod.

	28-03-2002 06:02									#540
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, I was being facetious. I didn't really think you wanted to be a tester. If anyone doesn, though, all they need to do is let send me an email.

We are currently working on a modified version of the combat model. Hopefully this will help balance the combat a little more.