16-11-2001 08:09									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf why pass up the chance to expose someone for the rambling idiot they are?

I wonder if you realize the humor such a statement holds coming from a person such as yourself.

Well it seems that putting down the Whiskey Rebellion was a bit hypocritical on his part, eh?

Please expand.

	16-11-2001 08:09									#32
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Floyd:

do you have a pet? a favorite food?

probably poodle/croissant or something.

	16-11-2001 08:09									#33
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Oh, and DinoDoc-

Don't rely too much on the Supreme Court. I can see Antonin Scalia ruling against Bush, et. al. and possibly one or two of the more liberal justices, but well short of the 5 votes necessary...it wouldn't even greatly surprise me to see 9-0 in favor of Bush.

	16-11-2001 08:13									#34
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quote: Floyd: do you have a pet? a favorite food? probably poodle/croissant or something.

If you're insinuating that I'm some sort of pansy, why don't you come see me and we'll see who the ****ing pansy is? You think I can't beat your ass? Don't be on it.

**** you.

quote: Please expand.

Well I'm certainly no expert but the Whiskey Rebellion was, IIRC, a revolt against a tax on alcohol, a tax as big or bigger than those imposed by Great Britain on the 13 Colonies. If it was OK for Washington to fight the British in opposition to those taxes (granted, that wasn't the only reason), then why is it also OK for him to fight others who oppose similar taxation? Just my thoughts, and let's not get into that here...if it goes to debate you'll probably win anyway, that's just an opinion from someone who knows little about the subject

	16-11-2001 08:15									#35
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Don't rely too much on the Supreme Court.

Why not? Parts of the Patriot Act run counter this Court's own rulings and any reasonable Constitutional analysis. I think that parts of the act are just begging to be struck down by judicial challenge.

	16-11-2001 08:19									#36
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quote: Why not? Parts of the Patriot Act run counter this Court's own rulings and any reasonable Constitutional analysis. I think that parts of the act are just begging to be struck down by judicial challenge.

I'd agree in any other time, but with the way things are now I'm not counting too much on the Supreme Court deciding things in such a way, with the current mood of the nation.

And, although this may not be likely, but Bush can always threaten to "pack the court", like two other tyrants did, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

	16-11-2001 08:26									#37
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You long haired, maggot infested, dope smoking, hippy fiend, insignifcant shred of human debris. I am a true libertarian, you are an anarchist liberal in libertarian clothing. True libertarism is freedom, but recognizes our needs for national security. Your form of libertarism is anarchy and if another country takes us over, "that's their choice" just like rape and murder is in your form of libertarism.

	16-11-2001 08:33									#38
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quote: If you're insinuating that I'm some sort of pansy, why don't you come see me and we'll see who the ****ing pansy is? You think I can't beat your ass? Don't be on it. **** you.

a lot of brits would be deeply offended at that. poodles and croissants are very popular over there.

	16-11-2001 08:36									#39
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I wonder if other Libertarians such as Wraith or berzerker (who are known as actual Libertarians on here by, well, everyone) would agree with that!



I think that's all that needs to be said...your post was certainly full of ad hominems though I'm hoping you were just trying to troll me out...

quote: a lot of brits would be deeply offended at that. poodles and croissants are very popular over there.

	16-11-2001 08:39									#40
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I am 100% libertarian in the form of Larry Elder. So what? anyone can call themselves a libertarian. commies like you, geraldo rivera, oprah, bill maher, howard stern. It's a loose term but I believe my form of libertarism practiced by millions, those who call thesmelves Republicans Independents Libertarians and even some Democrats.

	16-11-2001 08:41									#41
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Well, I bow to your obviously superior knowledge of political philosophy, Libertarianism, and debate skills

	16-11-2001 08:44									#42
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Of course. Thanks for acknowledigny my superiority. Libertarism is what I am. I am not artsy philosopher but I know it all like a disgruntled coach.

	16-11-2001 08:47									#43
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If only your spelling and writing skills were up to par as your debate skills

	16-11-2001 08:51									#44
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Wit all dat nonsense goin on in UT no wonder them lefty commie folk be brainwashing ye

	16-11-2001 08:52									#45
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Bob -

quote: If you wanna have the right to partyyyyy and drink booze all the time, go live in Germany.

He can't do that here? The last I heard partying and drinking booze is still legal.

quote: You long haired, maggot infested, dope smoking, hippy fiend, insignifcant shred of human debris. I am a true libertarian, you are an anarchist liberal in libertarian clothing. True libertarism is freedom, but recognizes our needs for national security.

But Bob, you don't believe in freedom.

Wiglaf -

quote: a lot of brits would be deeply offended at that. poodles and croissants are very popular over there

Were you accusing him of being a Brit?

	16-11-2001 08:56									#46
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As far as the Afghanistan situation is going, I'll be the first to admit that Bush is doing a fine job, and that's coming from a leftist!

However, once this thing is over and done with, I have a feeling that domestically (especially if he goes with the things he ran on) he's going to be a big let down, and I'll go back to disliking him as much as I did before this thing got started (not that I really "like him" now, I just hate him less so because he's handling the situation quite well)

	16-11-2001 08:57									#47
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quote: He can't do that here? The last I heard partying and drinking booze is still legal.

It is, but there are responsibilities here too. In Germany the crackpot welfare gov takes care of you even if you're a lazy pig.

quote: But Bob, you don't believe in freedom.

Evidence? redneck. here's what you say: we ain't gonan be doin no war in afghanistan, enough of that nonsense there. no putin coming to my dorrstep ye hear

	16-11-2001 08:58									#48
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orange, I'll even concede that I have no problem with what he's doing in Afghanistan. My problem lies with his current domestic agenda, ie the stripping of rights from American citizens.

	16-11-2001 09:04									#49
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Bobbie, you can chill now, voluntarily, or I'll give you a week to chill.

	16-11-2001 09:06									#50
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd orange, I'll even concede that I have no problem with what he's doing in Afghanistan. My problem lies with his current domestic agenda, ie the stripping of rights from American citizens.

Yes, I know, I forgot the point of my thread after reading the posts

As I added, yes, domestically I don't think he'll be a good president, which may effect his chances at reelection (just like Daddy )

What 'stripping of rights' are you referring to exactly? I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure.

	16-11-2001 09:08									#51
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Well, the Patriot Act in general, the military tribunals, the very strong possibility of further 4th Amendment (and maybe even 2nd Amendment) erosions, etc.

Troops patrolling the airports is not a good thing either, IMO, especially not if they can override the civilian authorities, which they really CAN'T do, of course.

	16-11-2001 09:12									#52
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Troops patrolling the airports is not a good thing either, IMO, especially not if they can override the civilian authorities, which they really CAN'T do, of course.

My understanding was that they were there for show and basically little more than show. Am I wrong?

	16-11-2001 09:13									#53
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Well, if chegitz's article about that Green Party woman is to be believed, then yes, although I can't comment as to its veracity.

	16-11-2001 09:16									#54
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Bob -

quote: It is, but there are responsibilities here too. In Germany the crackpot welfare gov takes care of you even if you're a lazy pig.

What responsibilities? I don't need to go to Germany for welfare and I can drink all the booze I want right here.

quote: Evidence? redneck.

You just told David to go to Germany if he wants the right to party and drink booze. A libertarian would tell him to stay here and fight for this right with the rest of us before it is taken away by freedom lovers like you.

quote: If you believed in freedom, you'd be here's what you say: we ain't gonan be doin no war in afghanistan, enough of that nonsense there. no putin coming to my dorrstep ye hear

So once you offer up that one insult from Rush, you become unintelligible? I guess it's true what they say about dittoheads.
In the land of the brain dead, the halfwit is king. Is Rush still bragging about debating people while sitting on half his brain? Btw, Larry Elder supports the legalization of drugs...

	16-11-2001 09:19									#55
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Before I depart from this thread I shall prove my final point

I am as much as a believer in free speech and free ideas as you libertarians are, the difference is I understand there are higher powers at work and it doesn't matter how much you care about free speech. For example, the feds here are telling me to be quiet or I'll be forced to, just like in real life. That's the way things work, and that's how it must be done.

	16-11-2001 09:24									#56
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Boob - Oops, well not too far off.

quote: Before I depart from this thread I shall prove my final point I am as much as a believer in free speech and free ideas as you libertarians

In your final point, you just refuted your earlier claim of being a libertarian

	16-11-2001 09:26									#57
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David Floyd - I know this may sound weird coming from someone who is generally a libertarian, but...

...I don't mind the tightening of 4th amendment rights in most cases, especially during a national crisis or time of emergency. I mean, if you've got nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about, and if you do have something to hide, than I don't think it's a problem to seize the illegal items (especially weapons). As long as it isn't based on race/religion...I don't have a problem with it. That would be more of an invasion of 1st amendment rights, I think, if it were based on race, religion, etc.

A more conservative interpretation of 4th amendment rights, IMO, is a good thing. I'm quite in favor of strict gun control as well, so I guess we just disagree on this one across the board.

	16-11-2001 09:26									#58
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He certainly did. Too bad he was just trolling

	16-11-2001 09:29									#59
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quote: A more conservative interpretation of 4th amendment rights, IMO, is a good thing. I'm quite in favor of strict gun control as well, so I guess we just disagree on this one across the board.

I guess so

The only thing I really have to respond to your post with is to say that I really don't believe the federal government or President possess any significant "war powers" as they pertain to civil liberties.

	16-11-2001 09:34									#60
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If Bush was somehow able to intern all people of Arabic decent or of the Muslim faith, I'd agree with that.

This seems more like a matter of national security power than a 'war power'...and personally I don't think that many civil liberties will be violated becuase of it.