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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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TechWins
quote:
You may not agree with the changes I will suggest for terrain, but I honestly believe that they might seriously help decrease micromanagement |
i will think about the implications of your changes, however i do not think that micromanagement is civ3's problem, instead it is the closely related problem of tedium, which comes from a lack of interesting choices, the players are then forced to make the same choice over and over again which is boring, so i'm afraid that further decreasing choices would increase tedium
what i am going to do though is change tundra from 1.0.0 to 0.1.0 like deserts, and i might also increase its movement to 2 but i'm not sure about that, also i am thinking of tweaking jungles but i'm not sure to what
i read nato's plan for getting rid of micromanagement, and taking that idea along with yours here is an idea
max out all of the stats for each terrain type then set tile improvments all to zero, so the only thing that workers could do would be to build roads, railroads, forts, plant/clear forrest/jungle
if the editor had a tile penalty value instead of a standard tile penalty checkbox this would work perfectly, as it is either republic/monarchy would be a tough call
what are your thoughts on that idea? this would certainly decrease micromanagement without completely making the worker obsolete, but it would take away part of the reason to play civ
OneFootInTheGrave
glad you approve! 
lockstep
i see, well what i'm thinking of is making the scientist and tax collector each generate 2 of their respected resource
so any thoughts on ideas from other mods that might fit in with the blitz mod?
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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At the moment, I'm not ready to talk about detailed stats. However, here's my updated general list for 'smoothing out the basic game':
Ideas I agree with that are already part of the blitz mod:- Broader range of buildings (e.g. mill, stock exchange);
- 'Culture-only'-buildings (e.g. theater, museum);
- Government Fascism (trade bonus, no war weariness, nuisance corruption);
- Raised unit support cost for some governments;
- Generous 'turns per tech' limits;
- Increased numbers of hitpoints;
- Increased A/D ratings for industrial and modern units;
- Increased movement rates of naval units;
- Possibility to build armies (not to rush wonders) without a leader;
- Ability to upgrade for units like swordsman, longbowman, cavalry etc.;
- Tweaked stats for marines, paratroopers and nuclear weapons;
- Foot units with hidden nationality (partisan);
- Increased chances for air superiority missions.
Interesting ideas from other mods:- Increased number of optimal cities;
- More productive scientists/taxmen, possibly assigned to techs;
- Reduced costs for espionage missions;
- Preliminary discovery of strategic ressources (e.g. uranium available with atomic theory);
- Tweaked tech requirements, especially for wonders (e.g. Longevity available with Medicine);
- Tweaked ressource requirements (e.g. infantry doesn't need rubber);
- Jungles producing +1 shield;
- Fruits/Oasis back as bonus ressources of jungles/deserts;
- Coracle added (0/1/2 sea unit, carries 1 foot unit, no prereq);
- Different barbarian units (e.g. privateer replaces galley);
- Reduced combat bonus against barbarians.
'Radical' or somewhat problematic ideas that you may nevertheless want to test:- Government Theocracy (50% science cap) (possibly unbalanced and/or no interesting choice);
- Government-specific wonders (effects of tactical government switching unsettled);
- No mines on grassland (the AI possibly cannot handle this);
- Bonus ressources assigned to new techs (e.g. cattle, wheat) (potentially a great idea, but needs to be tested);
- 0/0/2 settler for expansionist civs (needs to be tested);
- 'Zero-ressource'-units with higher shield costs (e.g. light cavalry) (effects on upgrading unsettled).
Regarding nato's plan: We'd 'only' need additional bonus ressources that can be attached to every tile of the same type and can coexist with existing ressources (i.e. two ressources on the same tile). If this can be done, attach the new ressources to new techs and leave them invisible. But you're right, it would take away part of the reason to play civ.
Last edited by lockstep on 09-01-2002 at 03:49
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by korn469
*Preliminary discovery of strategic ressources --> what need does this fill? |
As uranium is a) rather rare b) required for a space victory, I'd like to know before the end game where it is situated. In case I've got none in my territory and no one is willing to trade it to me, I can prepare for war (not just gearing up my production, but also forging long-time alliances). And Atomic Theory sounds like a reasonable tech to discover the importance of uranium. (On second thought, this tweak may be just my personal preference.)
quote:
*Jungles producing +1 shield --> i'll look into it
*Fruits/Oasis back as bonus ressource --> sounds good |
These two changes together should re-balance the different terrain types a la civ2. +1 shield for jungles is a compensation for the associated risk of disease.
quote:
*Coracle added --> i don't see the need for this |
Opens the possibility to explore faster in coastal areas and to settle nearby islands. Could be really helpful on archipelago maps when Map Making is up to 4 techs away. (Okay, coracles are not a must, but compared to pre-patch privateers they rock.)
quote:
*Government Theocracy --> how about i tweak confederation? |
I'm not sure what your vision behind the Confederation government is, but I view it as decentralized. A Theocracy is rather the opposite. (Note: the whole government system of civ3 needs to be tweaked - I'd be already happy with 6 balanced governments in v1.06 of your mod. And Fascism is more important than Confederation and Theocracy IMO.)
quote:
*No mines on grassland --> maybe, but i think it could make terraforming more tedius |
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear: Just leave it as it is now; else the AI will probably be crippled.
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*0/0/2 settler for expansionist civs --> what need does this fill? |
Expansionist is regarded as the weakest CSA so far. The ability to claim the best city sites in the early game could be helpful.
quote:
*'Zero-ressource'-units with higher shield costs --> maybe at a future date, but this idea would be very time consuming to implement with little positive benefits, i've increased resources by about 25% in beta3...it would be easier to just remove resources instead of implement this |
As I said, a radical and somewhat problematic idea. And yes, it could make the whole ressource feature rather pointless. I just mentioned it for the sake of completeness.
I'm pleased to read that some of my suggestions have already made it in the v1.06 beta (again, a readme.txt would be helpful  ). I probably won't be able to join these forums actively for a few days, but will try to deliver some beta-testing reports and additional comments regarding tech requirements till the end of the week. I also offer to assist you on tweaking government and building stats, but this will have to wait till v1.07.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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sorry i forgot to include the art!
anyways here it is
Last edited by korn469 on 10-01-2002 at 07:14
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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I have a question, what exactly are those pictures of the units going to be used for? Are you going to eventually implement them into your mod, is that it?
Also:
-Jungle, Tundra, Forest, and Mountains should have their road bonus discarded.
-You should make mountains have a +3 mining bonus instead of a 2.
-To be able to mine one should have to discover Iron Working first.
-Communism, the gov, shouldn't come towards the beginning of the Industrial era (IIRC) yet it should come more towards the middle to end of the Industrial era.
-Democracy should also come a bit later in the game, possibly somewhere in the early to mid part of the Industrial era.
-Sanitation should be completely discarded as a technology and all items that currently fall under sanitation would just go to Medicine.
-Democracy, Communism, and Facism should all cost 150 to research and Monarchy should only cost 20 to research.
-Monarchy should have have 3draft/4police, Facism should have 4draft/4police (stay the same), and Communism should have 5draft/7police.
I suggested all of those gov. and technology changes in order for Monarchy to be a more attractive gov. The most attractive feature migth be the fact that it can eventually support 8 units per city, but it can't reach that goal until Hospitals are discivered. However, how long it takes you to discover those you would be more inclined to just go for the already present govs that are better (democ, comm, facism).
Sorry but I haven't got to try out v1.06beta4 yet.
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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1) No, I have not yet finished game on your mod, however, not because of the inefficiencies of your mod, yet the inefficiencies of the game mechanics of Civ3. It just becomes far too riduculous too have to wait that long, while playing a game.
2) No, this mod doesn't seem all that crash prone to me, except for the early game crashes I reported earlier.
3) Yes, I have made it to the Industrial era twice but both times I never made into the Modern era (refer to #1). Your mod makes the game a lot more fun, at least for me it does, and without this mod there would be no way I would play this game. I found the game to be absolutely horrible, yes I can have my own opinion on the game without anybody being offended, originally but everytime I play a new version of your mod it rekindles my excitement to play the game. However, after the excitement quickly dies down once the true colors of Civ3 kick in (excessive AI expansion, wait times, etc).
4) I'm not really sure if I have had to change my strategies or not. I do think that your mod does add to the strategy of the game, though.
5) I think from my previous four answers you should be able to figure out my answer to this. I'm glad with the direction you have taken in your mod compared to other mods. It seems as if other mods are just adding a bunch of 'fluff' (lame wonders, units, city improvements, resources...) to the game instead of increasing the strategy of the game. Firaxis would be wise to use a lot of your ideas from this mod.  One of my favorite new changes that you have made are the changes you made to settlers along with creating a colonist. From the little that I played with these changes it significantly slowed down expansion in a way that actually made expandsion innovative and fun. Overall, you have done a fantastic job and I hope to see a lot more future versions.
          I just now realized there was a "get more" link for the smilies.
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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Korn,
I played with 1.06 till the beginning of the industrial area and had to stop then due to a design flaw. So far there are many promising features in your mod, but it also looks like we all didn't take WesW's advice (see my signature) too seriously. Note that the memos I made during my game cover just tiny parts of your changes. In detail:
The good:- As far as I could put your additional buildings to use, they rock. I especially like the possibility to enhance medieval shield production with mills, but also the 'culture-only'-buildings seem to be a solid concept. One really has to choose between butter and cannons now, as a forum in every city in the early game won't allow you to support a large military without absolutely crippling your science rate. BTW, I noticed that the AI also builds forums.
- Increased numbers of hitpoints are a must to smooth out combat results. I won't become an ardent supporter of your 4/6/9/12 scale, but battles actually don't last as long as I feared - I never felt the urge to turn off animations. (Although this may get problematic in the late game.)
- When I couldn't build the Sistine Chapel after researching Theology I assumed a bug at first, but it's actually a nice feature that one has to build some cathedrals in advance. Starting a palace and then switching to a desired wonder becomes slightly harder, which is a good thing IMO.
The bad:- I don't know what to think of settlers that cost 3 pop points. Granted, it slows down early expansion somewhat. OTOH, as you usually can't afford to build a settler in your first city right after a warrior because getting to size 4 takes much longer than piling up 30 shields, you insert barracks or a temple in your build queue, and soon you enjoy the benefits of larger borders and veteran units. No interesting choice anymore between builder strategy and really rapid early expansion. IMO, it would be a better tweak to increase the shield costs of settlers (and yes, I know I said that before).
- I never liked the idea of a city improvement (Obelisk) that is only available via building a wonder. I have to add now that the game engine can't really cope with a 'culture-only'-building that is granted for free: It won't show up in the Cultural advisor screen (although the additional culture points will be calculated), and worse, the +1 culture of the Obelisk won't double after 1000 years. This just doesn't feel right. I'd say, keep the forum, drop the obelisk and restore the original effects of the Pyramids (granary in every city on the continent).
- I don't know the intention of making settlers 'wheeled' units, but when you start on a medium-sized peninsula that a) contains some jungle area (which a settler can neither cross nor stub) and b) is sealed with a chain of mountains (so that your settlers have to make the long way round to get to some promising spots of land), you'll find yourself hopelessly behind even in the early game. It's just a small feature, but it definitely needs to be dropped from your mod.
- Ditto for the idea to have to pay maintenance for units and buildings even during anarchy. If you start a revolution to change to Democracy in the late middle ages and suddenly notice that your cash-flow doesn't drop from +4 gold/turn to -7 gold/turn (after all, you have to pay for some luxuries), but to -151 gold/turn, the game is pretty much over if you're not playing as a religious civ. (After 4 turns of anarchy, all your improvements will have been sold compulsory.)
The ugly (read: game-breaker):- I'm aware that the concept of land-units with hidden nationality (partisans) sounded so interesting to me that I put it on my list of 'best proposals to mod civ3'. This was premature. As the AI rubbed in to me, it is possible to wage war solely with partisans in the early industrial age if the opponent is technologically backwards (no calvalry or riflemen) or can be out-produced. This actually means that someone who just built his first couple of partisans (in my game, the AI) can wage war and conquer/raze cities while technically not being at war. (Your military advisor will tell you who burned your cities to the ground, but your foreign advisor will tell you that this civilization is at peace with you - although annoyed with you). This should mean in addition (though I didn't bother to test it) that your opponent won't have to face war weariness as a Republic or Democracy. I quit my game when I realized this and have to say now that the concept of land units with hidden nationality is broken.
Conclusion: I'll start a new game tomorrow after editing the partisan out. I'll try again to cope with 3-pop-settlers, and I'll enjoy building mills, theaters and stock exchanges. If I make it savely to the industrial area, I'll test the Fascist government (or whack some fascist AI). Thanks for creating and tweaking the most promising mod so far, Korn.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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lockstep
i'll skip the good, i'm just glad you like it
quote:
I don't know what to think of settlers that cost 3 pop points. Granted, it slows down early expansion somewhat. OTOH, as you usually can't afford to build a settler in your first city right after a warrior because getting to size 4 takes much longer than piling up 30 shields, you insert barracks or a temple in your build queue, and soon you enjoy the benefits of larger borders and veteran units. No interesting choice anymore between builder strategy and really rapid early expansion. IMO, it would be a better tweak to increase the shield costs of settlers (and yes, I know I said that before). |
ok my goal with this was to slow down expansion, i haven't been able to play test it enough to see what effect it has on the AI but it appears that the AI advances slower as well...this should have the effect of slowing down all players at the same rate including the AI even on the higher levels, whereas if you simply increase shields then this really won't slow the higher level AI down
also does it really take significantly more time to have a size 4 city and 30 shields instead of a size 3 city and either 40 or 50 shields?
run some tests and report the results, if this neuters expansion too much then i'll switch to a 40 or 50 shield two pop settler (which ever works best)
i'll run some tests also
quote:
This just doesn't feel right. I'd say, keep the forum, drop the obelisk and restore the original effects of the Pyramids (granary in every city on the continent). |
give me another option, because pyramids granting granaries in every city makes me have convulsions from pure annoyance
what i wanted the pyramids to do was to give +1 bonus culture to all culture producing religious buildings (not wonders) but this is impossible with the editor, there aren't any culture only wonders in the game and out of all the wonders the Pyramids, Sistene, JS Bach, Shakespear seem the three most logical choices
so give me a culture only wonder effect for the pyramids (or something besides granaries) that is possible with the editor and is something besides simply +mega mucho culture in this city
quote:
I don't know the intention of making settlers 'wheeled' units, but when you start on a medium-sized peninsula that a) contains some jungle area (which a settler can neither cross nor stub) and b) is sealed with a chain of mountains (so that your settlers have to make the long way round to get to some promising spots of land), you'll find yourself hopelessly behind even in the early game. It's just a small feature, but it definitely needs to be dropped from your mod. |
well i also wanted to make expansion more difficult early on, my biggest fear is having a civ start in the middle of a jungle but if they did they would be hosed anyway
btw do u have a save of that peninsula game? i'd love to see the start
also your worker building a road allows the settler to cross that area (i am fairly confident that you know this, but i just wanted to make sure)
quote:
Ditto for the idea to have to pay maintenance for units and buildings even during anarchy. If you start a revolution to change to Democracy in the late middle ages and suddenly notice that your cash-flow doesn't drop from +4 gold/turn to -7 gold/turn (after all, you have to pay for some luxuries), but to -151 gold/turn, the game is pretty much over if you're not playing as a religious civ. (After 4 turns of anarchy, all your improvements will have been sold compulsory.)
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i wanted to do two things
*make switching governments a BIG DEAL and that each switch would take careful consideration weakening tactical government switching
*make being in anarchy PAINFUL! anarchy should be a time of crisis that the player should avoid if at all possible
did i bring too much pain? if not i'll try to tone it down some
quote:
I'm aware that the concept of land-units with hidden nationality (partisans) sounded so interesting to me that I put it on my list of 'best proposals to mod civ3'. This was premature. As the AI rubbed in to me, it is possible to wage war solely with partisans in the early industrial age if the opponent is technologically backwards (no calvalry or riflemen) or can be out-produced. This actually means that someone who just built his first couple of partisans (in my game, the AI) can wage war and conquer/raze cities while technically not being at war. (Your military advisor will tell you who burned your cities to the ground, but your foreign advisor will tell you that this civilization is at peace with you - although annoyed with you). This should mean in addition (though I didn't bother to test it) that your opponent won't have to face war weariness as a Republic or Democracy. I quit my game when I realized this and have to say now that the concept of land units with hidden nationality is broken. |
most definantly a problem, but an easily fixed one, by moving the partisan to a later tech this problem should disappear because although partisans 8.8 might be leathal to musketmen 4.8, they aren't nearly as bad against riflemen 10.15 where they intended to be a problem and tie up defenders more than being an actual threat, thereby if they were later in the game it would either take a massive population investment to win or an actual declaration of war so you could bring bombard units to soften up the defenders
btw were you on the wrong end of the insurgence?
don't edit out the partisans just move them to replacable parts for now and see how that works ok?
ps
thanks for play testing and commenting
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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crap a stupid double post
but i'll take the time to say
i really appreciate all of the feedback i'm getting, and although it may look like i'm brushing off some of the ideas, i'm not. i really do consider everything being said and if i come to the conclusion that i absolutely won't implement an idea i will try a present the reasons why i made that choice
but without the feedback this mod wouldn't be close to where it is now
Last edited by korn469 on 11-01-2002 at 23:44
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by korn469
does it really take significantly more time to have a size 4 city and 30 shields instead of a size 3 city and either 40 or 50 shields?
run some tests and report the results, if this neuters expansion too much then i'll switch to a 40 or 50 shield two pop settler (which ever works best)
i'll run some tests also |
I played 10 starting games as the Babylonians (no double worker rate) - test setting and general results were as follows:- I founded the city of Babylon on my starting position unless a river- or coast-adjacent tile was one turn away (this happened two times out of ten).
- I deliberately prioritized food over shield production (i.e. rather worked a 2/0 grassland tile without a shield than a 1/2 forest tile).
- Because of the despotism tile penalty, I irrigated only floodplains. In two games, my first improved tile was a floodplain, in another game, my third tile (after having mined two grassland tiles).
- In three games I encountered a bonus ressource: a cattle tile with distance 2 from my city (and therefore only workable after my border size had increased), a distance 2 wheat tile and a distance 1 wheat tile which happened to be on a flood plain.
- Particular events: One time I was struck with disease and lost a pop point (liable: the wheat tile on a flood plain
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- On average, it took about 13 turns to produce 30 shields with my first city, 16 turns to produce 40 shields, 19 turns to produce 50 shields and 22 turns to produce 60 shields.
- The average number of turns to grow the city to size 3 was about 19, whereas it took about 28 turns to grow to size 4.
What could this mean in terms of game balance? I guess that Firaxis wanted to make it possible for a player with average starting position to build two warriors (one for defense, one for exploration, 10 shields each) and then start to build a 30-shield settler to found a second city. After 19 turns (3050 BC), the settler is completed just when the first city would grow to size 3 - this is paradigmatic rapid expansion. As soon as a player starts to build barracks, a granary or a temple (40 to 60 shields each) rather than a settler, he will benefit from larger borders and veteran units, but will also start to fall behind in the expansion race.
Making the settler a 3 pop point / 30 shields unit, the average player can't finish a settler before turn 28 (when the city grows to size 4); in this time, the city will produce about 80 to 85 shields. It is perfectly viable now to insert barracks (40 shields) in the build queue, and a granary or a temple (60 shields) won't slow your expansion down that much either. You are also free to build up to five warriors before your first settler and watch out for nearby civs with weak spots in their defense. You aren't free anymore, however, to put your precious shields solely in a settler to found your second city ASAP - you'd only waste half of them.
... Okay, Korn, that's it so far. I tried to present some facts, but are not sure whart conclusion to draw. After all, you have created this rather awesome mod, so youl'll have to decide about the settler's properties. I'll take a short break and then deal with the rest of your comments regarding my test game.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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lockstep
your tests are in line with my calculations from the ICS thread that was floating around before civ3 came out
but right now here is what we have
player (10) 18 turns to expand
AIs
*chieftain (20) 22 turns to expand
*Warlord (12) 18 turns to expand
*Regent (10) 18 turns to expand
*Monarch (9) 18 turns to expand
*Emperor (8) 18 turns to expand
*Deity (6) 18 turns to expand
now we would have to raise the cost of settlers to 60 to slow down expansion any at all
player (10) 22 turns to expand
AIs
*chieftain (20) 22++ turns to expand (120 shield settler)
*Warlord (12) 22+ turns to expand (72 shield settler)
*Regent (10) 22 turns to expand (60 shield settler)
*Monarch (9) 19+ turns to expand (54 shield settler)
*Emperor (8) 18 turns to expand (48 shield settler)
*Deity (6) 18 turns to expand (36 shield settler)
so increasing the cost of settlers to 60 would slow down the player and the lower level AI, but it would not slow the higher level AI at all, plus playing at Diety the player would need to build at least one garrison for crow control, so this would slow the player down even further probably up to the 25 turn mark while the AI could still expand at the 18 turn mark meaning that if you thought the AI expanded fast before, then you have an AI that would be expanding even faster in relation to you
after seeing your testing and arguments what i'm thinking is that either a 40 or 50 shield 3 pop settler should be the way to go, because it would slow down expansion across the board to the 28 turn mark but by increase the shield cost the player would still have to choose between expansion or infrastructure
EDIT: additionally you caught another bug
a barracks is going to be either 60 or 80 shields and most likely have a maintence of 2, that along with more powerful veterans and elites should give the player even more interesting choices to make
Last edited by korn469 on 12-01-2002 at 01:46
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lockstep
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Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by korn469
pyramids granting granaries in every city makes me have convulsions from pure annoyance
so give me a culture only wonder effect for the pyramids (or something besides granaries) that is possible with the editor and is something besides simply +mega mucho culture in this city |
I'll try, but won't promise anything this time.
quote:
well i also wanted to make expansion more difficult early on, my biggest fear is having a civ start in the middle of a jungle but if they did they would be hosed anyway |
Only if you don't bring back bananas.
quote:
btw do u have a save of that peninsula game? i'd love to see the start |
Sorry, no save available. Let me just say the start wouldn't have been that bad with standard rules.
quote:
also your worker building a road allows the settler to cross that area (i am fairly confident that you know this, but i just wanted to make sure) |
I made a rough estimate in the very game. It would have cost me about 15 turns to build roads on three tiles (I was playing as the Egyptians), and part of the effort (the road on the yet-to-be city tile) would have been wasted.
quote:
i wanted to do two things
*make switching governments a BIG DEAL and that each switch would take careful consideration weakening tactical government switching
*make being in anarchy PAINFUL! anarchy should be a time of crisis that the player should avoid if at all possible |
I agree that something needs to be done about Anarchy. I just don't think that paying maintenance for buildings that do nothing at the moment is the best solution.
BTW, korn, did I encounter another bug in your BIC-file or have you set anarchy war weariness to 'high'? I mean ... after all, Anarchy is what you get if you don't care about war weariness. Sounds like the perfect vicious circle.
quote:
by moving the partisan to a later tech this problem should disappear because although partisans 8.8 might be leathal to musketmen 4.8, they aren't nearly as bad against riflemen 10.15 where they intended to be a problem and tie up defenders more than being an actual threat, thereby if they were later in the game it would either take a massive population investment to win or an actual declaration of war so you could bring bombard units to soften up the defenders
btw were you on the wrong end of the insurgence? |
Yep. I was a rather small-sized (10 cities on a standard map) Egyptian empire in the late middle ages. My palace was rather splendid as my people basked in luxuries and enjoyed their new theaters, and mills had also been erected all over the country. Then suddenly the Chinese in the North (25 cities), who had recently discovered Communism, decided that all my bases belonged to them ... without formally declaring war.
quote:
don't edit out the partisans just move them to replacable parts for now and see how that works ok? |
Already done. I'll try to get some sleep tonight though, so I won't risk to start a new game right away.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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replies
quote:
I'll try, but won't promise anything this time. |
well if you think of something tell me, but i really enjoy the +1 culture to all my cities on that continant
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Only if you don't bring back bananas. |
so you want some kind of resource bonus for the jungle? find a mod that has this and i'll co-opt it(with credit of course)
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Sorry, no save available. Let me just say the start wouldn't have been that bad with standard rules. |
too bad, i was hoping to able to play on it
quote:
I made a rough estimate in the very game. It would have cost me about 15 turns to build roads on three tiles (I was playing as the Egyptians), and part of the effort (the road on the yet-to-be city tile) would have been wasted |
oh ok i see
quote:
I agree that something needs to be done about Anarchy. I just don't think that paying maintenance for buildings that do nothing at the moment is the best solution.
BTW, korn, did I encounter another bug in your BIC-file or have you set anarchy war weariness to 'high'? I mean ... after all, Anarchy is what you get if you don't care about war weariness. Sounds like the perfect vicious circle. |
well i'll think of something 
but you didn't find a bug Anarchy is intended to have high war weariness...hehe don't you already hear the darkside calling you?
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Yep. I was a rather small-sized (10 cities on a standard map) Egyptian empire in the late middle ages. My palace was rather splendid as my people basked in luxuries and enjoyed their new theaters, and mills had also been erected all over the country. Then suddenly the Chinese in the North (25 cities), who had recently discovered Communism, decided that all my bases belonged to them ... without formally declaring war. |
hehe i haven't heard anything like that happening in a while in civ games, so i'm sorry it happened to you but apparently the AI knows how to use partisans 
but this also makes me think of something that Soren said about the AI...if you could only build warriors and mech infantry then the AI would build warriors as attack units since they have the offensive AI flag checked...this has some interesting implications that need examination, but i suspect that this is one of the reasons that the AI build so many Partisans
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Already done. I'll try to get some sleep tonight though, so I won't risk to start a new game right away |
well i can't wait to hear more of your field reports
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09-01-2002 00:33
You didn't mean it that way, did you? (As it is now, happiness won't become an issue for quite some time.)
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