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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
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francoImpaler
i fixed the problem with upgrading units, sorry about that! (you have to select which units they upgrade to and then click an upgrade box)
although not clicking on the upgrade box allows units to disappear from the build queue (which is what i want), but it prevents you from upgrading them (which i am ambivilent about, both sides has pros and cons), so any thoughts about the significance of this (especially from all of those who opposed upgrading units to begin with)?
also i made a few quick changes based on the feed back
*factory now requires mill, and does not become obsolete
*obelisk are now 60/1/1
*pyramids now cost 300 (IRL i saw on a documentry about the great walls that the original span of great wall cost 12 times as much to build as the pyramids)
*generals now function as armies, but upgrade to armies and can build armies, this was done to allow the AI to use them effectively (before they didn't have an AI at all, because they can't use leader AI unless they have both build armies and hurry improvements)
tech wins the blitz ability is the game, where are you having problems with it? tanks, modern armor, panzers, mech infantry, fighters, bombers, jet fighters, F-15s, stealth fighters, stealth bombers, and armies (including generals) should have it
also i need to update the civilopedia, i haven't had the time to do this (busy with finals, holidays, and just life) and i don't plan on making any more changes to the blitz mod until the patch comes out which should be sometime this week (unless they delay it)...if anyone wants to help me with the civilopedia i would appreciate the help very much, if not i will work on it as time allows
one other thing i am only able to play about one or two quick games to play test each new version because of time constraints, and i encourage everyone to playtest as much as possible, and to provide as much feedback as you can
however to have a measuring stick to go by i encourage everyone to playtest at least one game on each of the Apolyton Challenges, that would give us a control group to see how the changes to the blitz mod effect the game compared to the regular civ3mod rules
Apolyton Tournament #1
Apolyton Tournament #2
keep the feedback coming guys! 
i want this to be the best possible Mod for civ3
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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quote:
Anyhow, itīs somewhat strange that the mill not only gets obsolete, but does so with the next-but-one production-boosting buildings (the power plants). Ítīs like the marketplace would get obsolete with the (added) stock exchange. |
After reading Korn's lastest post I finally realized what you meant (I must have just misinterpreted what you wrote), and I also agree (I trited to imply that in my last post, BtW) with that too.
quote:
*obelisk are now 60/1/1
*pyramids now cost 300 (IRL i saw on a documentry about the great walls that the original span of great wall cost 12 times as much to build as the pyramids)
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Along with Lockstep, I think you should make it so the Pyramids gives you a Forum in every city and just drop the Obelisk completely.
quote:
if anyone wants to help me with the civilopedia i would appreciate the help very much, if not i will work on it as time allows |
quote:
tech wins the blitz ability is the game, where are you having problems with it? tanks, modern armor, panzers, mech infantry, fighters, bombers, jet fighters, F-15s, stealth fighters, stealth bombers, and armies (including generals) should have it |
I created a General and I turned into an Army. I then loaded two veteran Horsemen inside the Army. When I was attacking with this particular Army I was not allowed to use the blitz ability. Is the reason for that because I have to have one of the more 'modern' units inside my Army instead of my 'old' Horsemen?
Since you have done some wonderful work on this mod (improves gameplay considerably) I will try to find some time this week to update the civilopedia to the best of my abilities.
BtW, could you provide me a link to the statements Firaxis/Infogrames has made about the patch, excluding Dan's comments on Civ Fanatics (I have already seen that). I can't seem to find it on either Firaxis' site nor Infogrames' site.
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:16
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Hi,
I've just played a long game for most of the weekend, using this patch. Here are some more thoughts.
I've noticed though that the AI civs build wonders a lot, but not very intelligently. Most civs gets techs at roughly the same time, and then most all of them will start building whatever the given wonder is. Of course, only one will get it. This seems a great waste to me. Count up all the lost shields for all the almost-made-it-in-time wonders, and that's a lot of lost production. If the AI were a human, they would be more selective about which wonders to choose, picking only those they had a fair chance of winning.
Seems it would make sense to have less competition on wonders, by dividing them so not everyone could build them all at once. What happened to the effort to have late wonders available only to certain governments? I'd like to see lots more of that kind of thing. If I made a mod, I'd probably have all wonders connected to one government type only. Looks like the Balancer mod is having a lot of success with this, and with gvmt-specific improvements as well.
Anyways, my biggest gripe with the most recent game I've played is that I ran out of stuff to build around the end of the modern age. More recent improvements need to cost more to make up for the increased production, increased gold, and so forth. Especially since there seems to be a limit to a max of 4 turns to the next research goal, no matter how much research you're doing. I ended up gearing up for a great war, cos all I had left to build was military units. Partly this was due to rushing the Hoover Dam with a leader, but still, a big problem.
I agree with Lockstep that its not preferrable to have 4 buildings doing the same thing. Instead, each building should cost more and more (and be worth it).
One specific suggestion that will help with this. One, I noticed you split Harbor into two - the same needs to be done to Airport. Airport should be a "must build" improvement, whereas I certainly didn't feel it necessary. Every halfway decent sized city in the world has an airport. The CTP games had airport give a production or money boost (I forget which) - this mod should do something similar. That also creates the new building - Airbase - another thing to build.
By the way, would it be possible to have a second Forbidden City wonder? That would be key for late game expansion.
I noticed by the way that Forbidden City, Palace and Courthouses still cost lots. I think they should be way cheaper.
I also noticed the Explorer unit is completely useless, at least in the medium sized world games I've been playing. By the time this unit is available, the whole world has been discovered already. This unit needs something to make it more useful, or come way earlier (as in the Balancer mod), or be eliminated.
"Along with Lockstep, I think you should make it so the Pyramids gives you a Forum in every city and just drop the Obelisk completely."
Ditto - no need for extra buildings.
I noticed the AI civs were completely misusing the General units. I hope that's fixed now. There were a number of cities I conquered with a General or two in them, just sitting there, defending, I guess.
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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Korn,
I have been trying to update the Civilopedia for you, but it is very difficult because the verision # update file doesn't include an overall mod update section. What I mean by 'overall mod update' section is that their should be a section in your 'version # update' file that states all the changes you have made that are still in place in the most current mod. Such as in one version you might have made building x then decided to take away buidling x. This becomes very difficult looking at if the change you made in the earlier versions is still true. Refer to the way Ancient shows his 'version # update' file for a visual showing.
If you could do this continously it would make it very easy to update the civilopedia and for people new to the mod to get a better feeling for what the mod offers. Instead of them having to depict what changes are still in effect by going through each version update.
quote:
I've noticed though that the AI civs build wonders a lot |
I've also noticed that, not to mention, the AI doesn't build many city improvements. Now I doubt Korn will be able to find a way to entice the AI to build more city improvements and less wonders by the available modding, but if there is a way (efficient/balanced) that would be fantastic.
quote:
If I made a mod, I'd probably have all wonders connected to one government type only. Looks like the Balancer mod is having a lot of success with this, and with gvmt-specific improvements as well. |
"*Mothballed the Movie Theater, Propaganda Ministry, and Classless Society because Government Specific buildings are beyond the scope of the editor."(Korn)
quote:
I agree with Lockstep that its not preferrable to have 4 buildings doing the same thing. Instead, each building should cost more and more (and be worth it). |
Well, I'm going to have to jump on this bandwagon now and say that I agree. It becomes quite repeptitive buidling the same improvement over and over again.
quote:
By the way, would it be possible to have a second Forbidden City wonder? That would be key for late game expansion. |
Please do not do this! The AI already expands way too much for my liking (no, I don't find it too difficult, either, yet just boring), and this might be another for the AI to expand.
Regarding Airbases, I was actually surprised to see that you didn't add them, even though, you added a Port Facility (Airbase needs to be added). I think having the Airport decrease corruption would be a nice idea. It would give the Airport more value, while showing that in modern times travel makes corruption less of a problem or something like that.
quote:
I noticed by the way that Forbidden City, Palace and Courthouses still cost lots. I think they should be way cheaper. |
The Courthouse is way too expensive and needs to be have it's cost lowered. However, I don't think the Forbidden City and Palace should be cheap. The reason why is because they should be strategically place and not plopped down all over the map continously.
What exactly is the point of the Explorer? Now I can understand how the Scout could be slightly useful but the Explorer! To increase the value of each unit I have a few proposals for them:
1) Have the Scout cost 10 and Have the stats of 0.0.1 but it counts all terrain as a road..
2) Have the Explorer cost 20 and have the stats of 0.0.2 but it counts all terrian as a road.
3) Have both the Scout and Explorer have a hidden nationality.
4) Where the Explorer left its spot open (Navigation) fill that spot up with a Conquistador.
5) Have the Conquistador cost 20 and have the stats 1.1.3 but it counts all terrain as a road. (the Conquistador does not have a hidden nationality)
Imlying those five changes into your mod will make exploring with actual explorers (the general term not the unit) much more enticing. I hope you give that idea some serious consideration. If you wish to have an explanation on each of those five changes just ask, and I will gladly do so.
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Umgssda
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More possible city improvements:
Abbeys were important, cultural and scientific centres in the early middle ages, and they are also not bound to a certain religion.
Schools have a general positive effect on society, but a single school is not that special to be mentioned (unlike universities) so I would suggest to introduce a small wonder 'compulsory education' or 'national education system' or however you want to call it.
Maybe you could introduce an inland port aswell. It would need a fresh water access, and boosts commerce. Rivers have always been a major trade route, so this would probably be available very early in the game.
Another interesting concept might be social ensurance. This should cost money, but make citizens content
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jkjones
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Overland Park, KS
Jul 2001
time: 05:16
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EDIT: OK - now that I've started, I can't stop. I promise a more organized, coherent post later tonight or tomorrow which will include credit where credit is due for suggestions. I'll have a chance to actually check out the Mod too instead of just imagining how good it is! JKJ
====================================
Sorry if I duplicate anyone's posts - I was greatly inspired by reading through the rest of this thread.
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Commercial Buildings:
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* Marketplace > Bank > Stock Exchange (bring it back)
(build 5 stock exchanges --> Wall Street allowed)
* Airport - Allows for resource trading, airlift and gives trade bonus (think O'Hare, JFK, Hartsfield, etc.); doesn't allow Veteran air unit ability
* Harbor - Same as current, minus Veteran ship ability.
* Corporation / Franchise - I saw this in one of the posts (sorry for the lack of credit!); provides a trade increase; build 5 "franchises" and it allows the "Corporate Trust" wonder (i.e. Standard Oil, et al)
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Military Buildings:
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* Air Base - allows for veteran air units, airlift capability; no commerce, etc. (allowed by Flight)
* Naval Base - Allows for veteran naval units (note: it would be cool to have "colonies" permit naval bases - think the British Empire with support bases all around the globe); no commerce, etc. (allowed by Navigation); alternatively, this ability could be combined with "Coastal Fortress"
EDIT: I hadn't seen the previous post, so you've already covered the Air Base / Naval Base deal.
* Walls - they definitely need help in some way or other as they aren't worth building unless you are desperate right now (and maybe not even then since they expire once your city gets too big).
* Barracks - should be required to allow the "General" unit, "Armies", etc. Should there also be a modern "Military Base" that replaces barracks & allows for things like Tanks, Mech Infantry, & Modern Armor to be built?
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Cultural Buildings
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* RELIGIOUS: Temple > Monastery > Cathedral - not sure which tech to add the monastery to, but from a historical perspective, it would seem to be a logical in-between step. Maybe with Mysticism? Also, I like the idea that Sistine Chapel/JS Bach require 5 Cathedrals.
* EDUCATIONAL: Library > University > Research Lab - good progression; maybe make the GL require 5 libraries; Newton require 5 Universities & SETI require 5 Research Labs?
* ENTERTAINMENT: Coliseum (sp?) > Stadium (modern) -
Stadiums can be built with Radio technology; maybe replace the old coliseum and provide a boost in happiness & culture. (For the sports fans - 5 Stadia = Professional Sports League! Then a new engine that boosts or decreases happiness based on how your team is doing... )
* Radio/TV - I think this is definitely something that should be added. Maybe the "Radio" tech becomes "Broadcasting" and allows for Broadcast Station (radio or TV); build 5 Broadcast Stations and you can build the "Broadcast Network" small wonder; these should provide both a trade boost and culture boost. Think CNN everywhere!
* CULTURAL - Add Theatre to "Free Artistry" and require 5 Theatres for Shakespeare's Theatre. I like the idea of Newspaper w/ Printing Press even though it doesn't synch historically. Also, the Museum could be added to Scientific Theory --> 5 Museums allow ToE. It'd be nice if "Museums" would also allow for some educational boost - maybe like having a scientist in the city.
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PRODUCTION BUILDINGS
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* Mill > Factory > Manufacturing Plant - adding the Mill is a good idea as an early shield booster - 25% or 50% maybe; must be in a water-adjacent square. Maybe with "Construction" - water mills & even windmills have been around for a long time. I agree with the poster that said MPs come way too late; no good suggestions on where to move them up to however.
* Offshore Platform - I like it; for the mods that allow Oil in coastal squares, this should also allow you to "connect" them as a strategic resource (maybe it counts as a "road" or something like that).
EDIT: Continuation...
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CORRUPTION BUILDINGS
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* Courthouse - perhaps a new industrial age small wonder could be "Supreme Court" - requires 5 courthouses; it would effectively be a modern FP. I know there's concern about the further expansion, but in every game I've played, between myself and the AI, we fill every bit of land anyhow by the early industrial age. Courthouses also could be a candidate to add a small amount of culture - think how the "rule of law" helps civilize the land.
* Police Stations - should be a corruption reducer in addition to war weariness.
* Newspapers - definitely a good corruption fighter; they should also add some culture as well.
So, hopefully, plenty of food for thought for 1.06, 1.07, etc.
JKJ
p.s. Thanks to everyone in this thread (and elsewhere) who helped inspire and organize these thoughts.
Last edited by jkjones on 05-12-2001 at 04:03
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badassb
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I've installed the mod but the game always gives a fatal error when I advance to the modern age. ( something like "fatal error in CIV3.exe")
I like the changes of this mod a lot so does anyone know about this problem? Oh yeas and I did create the new folders for the partisan unit and general unit.
----------------civing is an art------------
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Glostakarov
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York, Yorkshire, England
Feb 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Desert Dog
One thing on my computer anyways I get this tracer trail above all the units where the HP bar is. I have a Radeon All In Wonder video card. Anyone else see or experience this?
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I'm getting this too with my old voodoo2, I think it's just a function of the hp bar being too tall and the refresh not covering it. The tall bars also occasionally result in a unit's hp bar being partially hidden by that of it's opponent in combat. However, this to me is an acceptable price to pay for the affect on combat that doubling hp/rof has. Armies seem to have compressed hp bars, I wonder if there's a way to make the game do that with other units. Probably not worth the bother though.
On another matter, I've noticed the AI using Confederation exclusively in the ancient age; I think they really like the lack of limits on tile production, which does seem to make up for the corruption once you get cities large enough. They're beating me to around half the wonders at any rate, which they didn't do when we were all stuck with Despotism until Monarchy or Republic. If the communal corruption setting is fixed, Confederation might actually need weakening after the patch to keep it from being too good.
All in all, it's a fun mod.
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Glostakarov
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York, Yorkshire, England
Feb 2000
time: 05:16
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One quick note in response to a post from a few days ago. The AI seems to build fewer obsolete units if there is a clear upgrade path, so I'm willing to put up with a few upgrades that don't make perfect sense (cavalry to tank) in order to keep the game interesting and challenging.
Now to the wish list:
In my own game I bumped transport capacity back up to 8. Even with the increased speed I found it maddening to make several trips at 5 units a trip.
Are obelisks buildable without the Pyramids? Perhaps they should be; any civilization can reasonably construct edifices proclaiming their own glory, and it helps keep the Pyramids from being overbalancing. In my current game, I'm having trouble staying ahead of the Japanese in culture because they beat me to the Pyramids. All the other AI players are lagging far behind on culture, it's all those obelisks that are keeping him up with me.
Also in my own game I made both harbour and port facility increase food from sea tiles. I wish we could make them increase trade from water tiles. I did this because most of the real world's largest and most important cities are on the ocean or have a short and easy access to it. With three food from water tiles I can mine out most of my land squares and get a city at least equal to those that have no sea tiles.
I also wouldn't mind a second small wonder with the forbidden city affect, but I can't imagine what it would be. Maybe instead a small wonder that puts a corruption-reducing building in every city, Telecommunications. The ability to 'reach out and touch someone' makes it easier to keep track of resources and how they are being used. Of course if the corruption reduction in the patch is significant enough, we may not need this.
EDIT: Duh, I just remembered we can't do this with a small wonder. Perhaps make it a great wonder called Satcom based on satellites.
I gave pirates better units in my mod, at least for their advanced and sea units. I wish we could assign them basic and advanced sea units for early and late in the game. Still, they're somewhat more intimidating in frigates than they were in galleys.
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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quote:
Are obelisks buildable without the Pyramids? Perhaps they should be |
Instead of doing that I think the Pyramids should build a Forum in each one of your cites and just drop the Obelisk completely. Or to have the Pyramids build a Obelisk in every, make Obelisk available for building individually, and dropping the forum completely.
Since harvesting forest will give a boost only once in the game, I think that boost should be more than 10 shields now, maybe 30 shields.
Incorporate my ideas for Scouts and Explorers, but don't include the part about Conquistadors.
Lower the cost for spy missions.
If after playing the game, and we still feel that corruption is too deadly, then lower it via the editor.
The Privateer should become available at Navigation.
I have a question, since armies can only support two units originally, how many units will armies be able to support after building the Military Academy? Before any changes the Military Academy would allow for armies to support four units. I can't seem to remember what happens on this one, mainly because I never paid much attention to it.
Added some slight variations in unit graphics would be nice. What I mean by this is slightly change the General's graphics from a Leader's graphics and the same goes for Partisans and Infantry. That is if you do have the capabilities to do so, but I'm not talking about major graphical changes here, though. Just something that will allow us to depict the two units apart from each other.
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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:16
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Well it seems that I have finished, however with a crash.
I was playing 1.05c without applying the patch, and in the year 1808 the game crashed the first time, just saying that civ III performad an illegal operation. I tried the autosave and the game crashed again. Everyone was set to automate and no major moves. I went backl to the earliest autosave and played again. I went torugh 1808 without the crash but it happened again in 1862. this time around when i played again from the earliest autosave the game crashed again. I will zip and post both saves here if you want to take a look, or for future reference if this will happen to someone else as well, and you decide to investigate.
Personally I think that those building additions that you put in are a must, and really good, since even wiht them I am running out of buildings to build for shorter periods, without them my cities could only produce wealth or units that I don't need. HP increase has trully a positive effect, and overall the game is better. No specific ideas at the moment from me, I woul dlike the airplanes to behave like in civ II, but i don't think it is possible as of now, and they should be able to sink ships at least. The same goes for ships bombardment is good, but I still prefered the way ships could actually kill unit in the city or on the coast, just for gameplay reasons. At present the naval or arial aspect of play does not seem to important to me, when you cannot finish the unit off. But it migh be just me, nevertheless we cannot change this aspect yet to what I know.
here are the save files:
 Attachment: hammurabi of the babylonians, 1808 ad.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).
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Honour_Shogun
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I just dl'd the mod, and read the important readme. I am trying to find the Infantry.INI thing, but I must confess I do not know where to look. Could someone help me please?
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Glostakarov
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York, Yorkshire, England
Feb 2000
time: 05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Honour_Shogun
I just dl'd the mod, and read the important readme. I am trying to find the Infantry.INI thing, but I must confess I do not know where to look. Could someone help me please? |
In the Civilization 3/art/units/infantry folder. Copy the whole folder and rename the folder to partisan. The files in the partisan folder will all still be infantry, but the only one you need to rename is infantry.ini.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On an unrelated matter, I'm about halfway through a game after applying the patch and applying the changes to this mod, meaning I'm playing with both the patch changes and the mod changes. Maybe it's just a fluke this game, but the AI seems a little less aggressive (on Monarch). I don't notice the change to chance to culturally capture an enemy city, in fact I have yet to get one this game and I'm well on my way to a cultural victory. Corruption is still significant enough that I'm glad to have the extra buildings to reduce it.
Based on the past several posts, it sounds like most people are in favour of only one ancient building that is culture only (forum/obelisk). I think the best solution is probably to get rid of one and make the other buildable by anyone. Probably keep obelisk, since the Pyramids putting a forum in every city doesn't feel right. The Pyramids still give a nice advantage, since you don't have to build or maintain any of them.
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TechWins
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Arizona
Apr 2001
time: 22:16
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Korn, could you post some info on how v1.06 is coming along?
Concerncing the current version, for some reason in my game I am not capable of building a General. I'm not sure why this is, either, because I have all of the pre-game and in-game requirements to do so.
-An idea for v1.06 I have is to make a regular elephant unit (the graphics are already available with the Indian War Elephant). The unit should come available not at Polytheism, yet at Monarchy. The reason for this is because Monarchy doesn't seem to be all that useful, IMO, and this will increase Monarchy's value. The Indian War Elephant should also now become the upgrade of the Elephant instead of the Knight. Here are two proposals for implementing the Elephant.
1)The stats of the Elephant should be 3att/1def/2mov with a cost of 40 shields and require zero resources. The Indian War Elephant should have the stats of 4att/1def/2mov with a cost of 40 shields and require zero resources.
or
2)Make a new resource called Elephants; the resource should not be all that abundant, either. The stats of the Elephant should be 3att/2def/2mov with a cost of 4 shields and require the Elephant resource. The Indian War Elephant should have the stats of 4att/2def/2mov with a cost of 4 shields and require the Elephant resource.
However, if you have a better plan feel free to go with that, but I do wish you would include an Elephant unit.
-The Charriot unit should also be of more use. I have yet to build one Charriot! Maybe making the shield cost 1 instead of 2 will do the trick.
-Pyramids should give an Obelisk in every city on the same continent, but Obelisks should be available to build individually, as well. The Pyramids will still be very powerful even with that. Forums should, also, still be available for building.
-I think Newspapers should not be available for buidling until a Courthouse and a Library have been built. Both the Courthouse and Newspaper should give off a +1 culture. The Newspaper then should cost 14 instead of 12 representing it's increased power.
-The Palace should only cost 35 for building instead of 40.
-Tundra should only have a terrain bonus for mining. Now I know I have said this plenty times, but I strongly believe it prevents the AI from building in tundra more often.
-The Labratory should be completely ridden of because having 4 science buildings is an overkill.
-As said before, Scouts should have the stats of 0/0/1 with the cost of 1 and should count all terrain as road. Explorers should become available with Map Making. The stats of Explorers should be 0att/0def/2mov with the cost of 2 and should count all terrain as road.
I hope to see v1.06 out soon.
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03-12-2001 05:40
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