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Bob Dornan
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Yes, traitors. Young, strong, healthy 18-25 year olds resisting the draft because "They want to pursue a career, it's resisting the Feds", which is really an excuse for your own cowardice. Resisting the Feds? Of course that's a good thing. But if you refuse to product the defenseless civilians, you're a lazy no good college drunken drug addicted bum.
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Bob Dornan
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Drunk: If there was a draft, I would go.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:16
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Hmm, looks like I'm late to this party.
Quite simply, the answer is "yes" you are.
The reasoning behind your opinions for such a choice vary, but I'm answering the question.
Does that mean I agree with a draft, or conscription of any kind?
No, it doesn't at all.
Conscripted forces always perform below voluteers in service.
Quite simply, your freedoms in the USA come with a price tag, the tag being that if you won't fight for them, you don't deserve them.
Some assert it is their right to be protected and their freedoms assured by others.
Bull.
That's up to each individual. I'm sorry you younger guys would like to be safe and protected by others, but there comes a time when you must stand on your own two feet, or be a forever child.
Someone will come along to take your freedom, it's the lesson of history, it cannot be avoided.
Quite frankly, I'd let your ass be shot rather than protect a coward who doesn't have my back, as would most service personal. We exisit to protect those who cannot protect themselves, not those who do not wish to protect themselves. You think I'd take a bullet for you your out of your mind.
It all boils down to whether being a traitor actually means anything to you, and to many here, from what they say, it doesn't.
That's your choice, but I wouldn't be able to live my life as a worm, but that's a personal choice we all must face.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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quote:
I certainly wouldn't fight. I'm not a concientious objector, and I don't believe that concientious objection is any better reason for dodging the draft than anything else. It disgusts me that what under any other situation people call "freedom" is mentioned by those same people as "cowardice" when it comes to the draft.
I would dodge a draft.
I won't volunteer.
Suck it. |
I like your style my friend 
And the draft is, as was already pointed out but not really addressed, slavery, pure and simple.
I'd like one of you pro-draft people, who go on and on about "defending America" and "defending our freedoms" to point to ONE SINGLE TIME where the United States of America used a draft to defend it's own territory or the freedom of those residing within it. I don't think you can.
First Draft: US Civil War.
However, the United States was not threatened. The draft was used in order to forcibly conquer the Confederate States of America. Sure, the CSA used the draft as well - it was a slightly different situation, but also many governors in the South opposed the draft, and even suspended it in their state at various time, such as Mississippi and North Carolina.
Second Draft: World War 1.
Again, no threat to the United States. The draft was used to save France and the UK from having a negative peace dictated to them by the Germans. Ultimately, the use of the draft by the USA won the war for the Triple Entente and friends, and as a result caused World War 2, and rather than a strong Germany on the Continent opposing Bolshevism and a strong Britain on the British Isles controlling the seas, with several weaker powers scattered around Europe, we had, instead, an artificial Great Power in France, and artificial insignificant power in Germany, a Communist Russia, and Socialism running rampant across Europe, with the culmination of all this being World War 2, Nazism, and eventually the Cold War.
Third Draft: World War 2.
Minor threat to outlying US possessions from Japan. No threat to the US from Germany - sorry guys, Germany never had a big atomic bomb project going on, no matter what you want to believe, and they could never have invaded Britain or held down the USSR in any case, it's a matter of logistics. In Japan's case, they were simply not strong enough to threaten the US in a major way, and all the US really had to do was to build up a navy, concentrate totally on Japan, and a totally volunteer military would have been able to secure all American possessions and force a peace among equals, instead of US troops dying in places like Okinawa, Japanese cities getting nuked and firebombed, and, with the lack of a Japanese counterbalance in Eastern Asia, the rise of Communist China and no power in Asia to counter the USSR.
The draft then continued until the Mid-70s. The two major wars fought in this time, Korea and Vietnam, were not even declared wars, and in any case North Korea and North Vietnam were of no threat to the US.
The argument, then, is that the use of the draft in the United States, while a contributing reason to the huge victories in the two world wars and the conquest of the CSA, was in the long term a negative thing when looked at in a non-military perspective, because it destroyed existing and potential strategic balances of power all over the world, leading to nuclear stalemate and things such as the Cuban Missile Crisis, the creation of the State of Israel, and dozens of little wars ranging from Korea and Vietnam to Grenada, Haiti, and Kosovo, none of which should have been fought.
That is one huge reason I would never support a draft, or report for one. The consequences of the draft are morally indefensible, as well as the draft itself being a mechanism to remove basic civil liberties and human rights from all it touches, and is, in any case, totally unsupported by the Constitution of the United States.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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Sure thing Slowwhand, no problem at all. I'll work on that problem just as soon as you show some progress on your quest NOT to be a ****head to people who disagree with you, and start trying to logically refute their points.
In other words, when hell freezes over.
Sikander, thanks for the relevant post, my response would be that the draft allowed massive US intervention in WW1 (as an example), which allowed a Entente victory, which ensured WW2 and the Holocaust and the rise of communism, all of which helped ensure the Cold War and the current Middle Eastern troubles.
Without a draft, the US couldn't have massively intervened in WW1, and thus Germany would have won the war in the Spring or Summer of 1918 with the success of Operation Hagen, after their four or five initial "probing" attacks went off without a hitch and they were NOT defeated at places such as Belleau Wood and 2nd Marne.
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Zylka
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What type of war are we talking here? Given a massive do or die situation with my own friends and family at high risk, I wouldn't think twice to join up - we're talking world war next door. Yet if we're talking the usual foreign clusterf*ck; ie.) Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan - there is no way in hell I would ever do something so reckless and stupid. Sorry, but my future is worth much more than a faceless beaurecrats' international agenda. There are plenty out there that gladly swallow hot loads of propoganda in the name of "courage" and "valour". Save the dirty-work for some grease monkey high school drop out who doesn't care for the concept of the afterlife.
Death is death. It gets worse when the dying individual has issues with salvation, etc. Given such eternal consequences, how could you ever justify forcing someone to fight in some two-bit conflict which does not directly threaten that individual?
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27-11-2001 06:19
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to Zylka...he brought up another issue...the draft, from a Christian perspective, causes the death of non-Christians and sends them to hell, hence is also immoral from the perspective.
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