 |
|
Monoriu
|
|
I have heard of a solution to all this: Isreal unilaterally withdraw from West Bank and Gaza, build a solid, continuous wall along the border, and permanently seal it so that no Palestinian can get through.
Now, why isn't this feasible? I am interested to know.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natan
|
 |
New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Spray, I guarentee you that once Arafat is gone, the bombings will increase in number. If Arafat is gone, a power vaccuum develops and in steps Hamas and Islamic Jihad. You want them to be the leaders of the Palestinian movement? Even if Israel takes Palestine over, the seeds of radicalism will continue. |
Yes, this is what a war on terrorism means, the use of military means to deter and end terrorism.
quote:
Hell, Begin turned from terrorist to leader... why can't Arafat be given the chance? |
1) Begin wasn't a terrorist, as discussed above.
2) Arafat did have his chance, and he blew it again and again. The entire 8 years of Oslo were his chance, and he failed.
quote:
Funny how Israel was started by terrorism, yet when the tables are turned it is totally wrong.  |
1) How was Israel "started by terrorism?"
2) The US was founded on terrorism plus genocide and slave-holding, yet when the tables are turned, it's totally wrong. 
Zylka: Just because you give a slur a different meaning doesn't make it less offensive. For example, there are people who use the word n***** to mean just a person of poor character, and apply it to blacks and whites alike, but it's still quite offensive and should be avoided.
Monoriu: The problem is that it's very hard to build an effective wall over such a large area. There's a fence in Gaza, which has a much shorter border with Israel, but it would just be too hard to build such a fence in the west bank. Also, mortar and rocket attacks could continue and could reach much further into Israel.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Richard Bruns
|
|
NC, USA
Nov 1999
time: 06:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt
So I take it you think the US should not have gone after al-Qaeda? |
If going after Al-Queda meant that a whole new generation of terrorists would be spawned, then yes. If the danger of an intact Al-Queda was judged to be less than the danger of making them martyrs, they should have been left alone. Fortunately it seems at this point that our government has managed to conduct the operation without turning the Muslem world against us.
Utilitarian calculations and not emotional reactions should dominate policy. Retaliation for the sake of retaliation is pointless. The main focus of any operation should be prevention. If swift retaliatory action prevents future tragedy, then it is warranted. But if retaliation breeds hatred and instability that will lead to more future terrorism, it is foolish.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Goingonit
|
 |
Toronto, Canada - AECCP member
Apr 2001
time: 00:16
|
|
About going after Arafat and not Hamas, hey're one and the same.
I have heard that Israel has bombed the shared offices of the PA and Hamas. This means a) they're going after Hamas, and b), the PA and Hamas share office space! If the PA is in active cooperation with them, they are as responsibel as Hamas.
As to taking out Arafat, you could either get someone more moderate or someone more extreme. Both are good for Israel. Why? Moderate is more moderate, this is obviously good. If you get someone more extreme, they are obviously terrorists, where as Arafat is a "terrorist in a diplomat's suit". You can afford to be rough when Hamas actively represents the Palestinian Authority.
On a side note, Ha'aretz, an Israeli newspaper, reports on their website that the Palestinian Authority Police have stolen cars in their police stations for use, apparently, by the police chiefs.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Natan
|
|
New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Begin WAS a terrorist |
AFAIK, he never ordered or carried out the murder of innocent people.
quote:
And hell, it worked for Hamas in Lebanon. |
Unlikely, since Hamas doesn't operate in Lebanon, never has, and almost certainly never will. Maybe you're thinking of Hezbollah?
quote:
And yes, the US shouldn't go in just for genocide or eradicating slavery. Only when we are asked by the population and we think that they are a good ally. |
But if we do, I think it would be rather asinine to say that America is founded on genocide and slavery. Furthermore, the analogy doesn't hold, it's not as if Israel is going after terrorists who attack other countries, it's acting in self defense - surely you agree that the US should defend its own people against genocide and enslavement?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zylka
|
|
Monoriu, the problem is that psychopath [sic]muslims[/sic] will never recognize the Israeli state, and will always do their best to suicide bomb it, etc.
It's a case of a few as*holes ruining it for all Palestinians, so we must eradicate the as*holes. The question remains, how many of them are there, and how many future zealot monkeys are waiting to be born? Perhaps it's something we just have to live with, perhaps the Israeli state should turn the other cheek. Whatever.
Hey - the monkey comment is not even close to calling one a n*gger... I call people monkeys when they act like primitive murderers, regardless of race. The latter insult, is rooted as a racist term and not subject to personal interpretation.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zylka
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Natan
Okay, that is really indisputably racist. And also, it does nothing to really answer his question.
If you're not a racist, why do you speak of people being born as "zealot monkeys?" |
PLEASE NOTICE THE [SIC] DENOTATIONS I ADDED - A SUGGESTION THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE ONE WHO KILLS (ie. suicide bombs) IS A TRUE MUSLIM. ISLAM IS A BEAUTIFUL RELIGION WHEN NOT INTERPRETED IN THE NAME OF MURDER, THAT IS MY POINT.
Also, calling one a zealot monkey to be born is in a vain of fate, it is symbolic and has nothing to do with what you are born into (ie. religion), rather what "fate" has in store. It is only symbolic of reading history in terms of fate (ie. the psychopath monkey Hitler was born in the Austrian blabla). Re-read carefully!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zylka
|
|
It's confusing, and in my introverted style of thought, therefore difficult to explain. Apologies.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Richard Bruns
|
|
NC, USA
Nov 1999
time: 06:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
This is perhaps the only sane, unbiased, and true statement in this whole thread. ....
I came back and read this thread again and I really can't find many more unbiased posts. Either it is all the fault of the Pal, or all the fault of the Israelies. Everyone has pretty much chosen sides and won't budge. |
Ok, I must be a really bad communicator if I came across as biased. I too think both sides are equal. Terror, blind retaliation, they both reinforce each other to get nowhere. I fully agree with you and Dissident.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bob Dornan
|
|
Zylka's right. Not afraid to post his mind. They are zealot monkeys, savages, murderers of innocents. Difference between Israeli "Terrorists" is that Israeli "Terrorirsts" NEVER targeted innocent civilians, young people on a Saturday night, family places, etc. Only British military structures.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Eli
|
|
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:16
|
|
The way it looks now he will be reelected soon.
Another suicide bomber exploded today... bla bla bla.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Eli
|
|
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:16
|
|
I agree with you MOBIUS. The military strikes were absolutely innefective.
By destroying two Helicopters and a few empty buildings we didnt hurt at all the capability of the Palestinian terrorists to hold weapons or to make bombs.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Eli
|
|
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:16
|
|
We heard you in the first two times you said that.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sirotnikov
|
 |
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:16
|
|
quote:
Well, that just sums up your views doesn't it! Ii find it rather amazing that you can make excuses for such atrocity.
|
No it doesn't sum up my views.
Search for my posts. I always made ti clear that terror is not something I support and that I deplore Isralei terror as well.
However, I still find the difference.
Irgun wanted to make a demosntration of power - planted a bomb and called to have it vacated, only not to be taken serious by the uptight britts.
Hamas and Jihad however are keen on killing and injuring. The nails they plant, the delayed charges meant to hurt rescue workers and the fact they mingle with people, esp. children, all prove it.
quote:
So if you know where they are why don't you arrest them? Surely you don't lack the knowledge? (or am I being too blunt for you?) |
We arrest most, but it's not that easy since to do this we have to make an incursion. And still hundreds of militants have been captured. Some trialed, some in administrative arrest.
As far as working in Lebanon and syria goes, it's not very easy after we pulled out from lebanon, as it's problematic to do commando work in foreign countries. Be sure we have infiltrated all we could though 
quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
The group Arafat was in charge of was Black September. I would have thought you'd have known that. |
it was PLO, but they simply changed their name a couple of times as far as I remember...
I'm having troubles remembering exact anems and dates. It happens all the time.
Too many groups with month's and colors in them 
Thanks though.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sirotnikov
|
|
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Monoriu
I have heard of a solution to all this: Isreal unilaterally withdraw from West Bank and Gaza, build a solid, continuous wall along the border, and permanently seal it so that no Palestinian can get through.
Now, why isn't this feasible? I am interested to know. |
I used to think it's a good plan but now I don't.
A big research, made by several psychology professors and military strategists and analyzers in Israel, about the character of Yassir Arafat, suggest that our whole attitude is wrong.
Unilateral steps will be accepted by him as victories and will only further support his usage of terror. The unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon is believed to have inspired Arafat for the 2nd intifada.
More conclusions is that Arafat isn't crazy, though has many megalomaniacal properties. He also is very much in control, though he likes being on the edge and steering through troubles.
He worries most about himself - his status, his money and mostly - how will he go down in history. He wants to go down as a leader through a fight - not the one that "gave up" (he sees peace as giving up on "greater palestine") to Israel.
I ahve a large article covering it from Yedioth which I can try and translate.
quote:
They merely stoke the fires of hatred! |
We're not here to bring hatred or joy to the palestinian people. Israel's top concern is the well being of Israelis and Jews and that's how it will stay.
I know you'd prefer bringing happiness to the pals, as the happiness they demonstrated when 26 Israelis were butchered in terror, or on Sptember 11.
quote:
One day you will realise that people like Sharon are actually part of the cause of Israeli civilians getting blown to bits! |
Surely!
Had all jews suddenly left or better yet, drowned in the sea, then no one would have to be hurt!
However these evil jews are so persistent about their land and freedom and sovereignity that they defend themselves.
As long as we will defend ourselves there will be war. Until the arabs decide to stop attacking, we will continue defending ourselves.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Rogan Josh
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
However, I still find the difference.
Irgun wanted to make a demosntration of power - planted a bomb and called to have it vacated, only not to be taken serious by the uptight britts.
|
Take a look here...
http://www.jerusalemites.org/hotel.html
...and tell me that Irgun were not terrorists. Or is being 'uptight' a crime punishable by death in Israel?
You will probably complain that this is a pro-palestine page, so let me post an extreme pro-israel page aswell.
http://www.jerusalem-archives.org/index1.html
I don't think it reflects very well on Israel and its formation though.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-12-2001 07:13
.....you should be razing villages to the ground and strafing PA police vehicles like we are in Afghanishtan.
peace will never exist. I always figured this, but is now more apparant. 
Let's hope he does it.
|