06-12-2001 08:40									#61
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I never pray but I will pray for the palestinian children and the kurdish children and all the children that suffer under totalitarian regimes in the Middle East or corrupted governments in Latin America because the only ones who have the power to try and save them have turned their backs on them and have become oblivious to their suffering. Even worse some KNOW but ignore what they know and become numb and heartless.

If there is a God, half of the western world is going to hell.

	06-12-2001 08:41									#62
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Far far more than half, if you believe what the Bible says is true

	06-12-2001 08:54									#63
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 And president Arafat is a charismatic leader, a hero trying to save small children from the clutches of a fascist state. He will live in history as one of the great ones.

Now that is what is uncalled for. He is not trying to save anyone, he wants more Palestinian children to die for his cause just as he used to want more Israeli children to die when that suited it. It's his state-controlled media which label those who oppose the use of child soldiers "westernized fifth columnists," and it's he who writes the letters to the families of suicide bombers congradulating them on having such wonderful sons who became martyrs for Islam. Is that Ahmed Yassin's twisted visage I see on the front page of al-Hayat al-Jadida, the Palestinian Authority daily's webpage? http://www.alhayat-j.com/

	06-12-2001 09:08									#64
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He does what he has to do to free his people. The west didn't give him a choice. He is enslaved in his own country with no assistance from anyone.

Do you think he is happy to have to do what he does? Who helps him to free his people? They are all alone.

I guess when some "great powers", for their own petty interests, created the state of Israel didn't think that some people have the flame of freedom burning deep inside of them and would NOT submit.

	06-12-2001 09:09									#65
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 If there is a God, half of the western world is going to hell.

And all of the Eastern, if you care to argue that sort of thing.

What brought on this silliness my friend?

Hitting the Uzo again?

Yessir I'marat is responcible for the little kiddies getting killed, looks good in the papers and makes bleeding heart types post silly stuff on websites.

As for who cleaning who's clock, those sissy boy Euros haven't fought a real war in years that the USA hasn't had to bail them out of, so forget that.

I also love how you have the EU based in Syria, terror state.
No worries, eh?

Kill the dirty Jews, and who cares? Afterall, Europe's only been trying that for a few thousand years, so why should today be any different?

Kill em all and let god sort em out seems to be the people's wish here (Notice how attacking Israel is considered a joke, but the inverse is a crime against humanity requiring 500+ posts?)

Wonder why.

	06-12-2001 09:10									#66
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paiktis

Some idiot decided that just because of the Holocaust Jews had the right to their own nation state, regardless of other people living in that area

	06-12-2001 09:11									#67
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Ouzo, Chris, ouzo.

	06-12-2001 09:13									#68
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Some idiot decided that just because of the Holocaust Jews had the right to their own nation state, regardless of other people living in that area

Taking through your backside, david.

Good advice would be to be quiet, your showing MAJOR ignorence here.

quote: Ouzo, Chris, ouzo

I never touch the stuff Ian, pure gut buster.

	06-12-2001 09:15									#69
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 He is enslaved in his own country with no assistance from anyone.

IIRC, The US sends him aprox. $100 million per year. The EU probably sends more.

	06-12-2001 09:17									#70
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How could I be hitting the Ouzo and type perfectly? Ouzo is lethal, you can barely walk if you indulge in it!

I only might drink 2 times every 2 months when in a big company of friends eating mezedes in a taverna on a saturday night.

What I say comes from the heart.

	06-12-2001 09:18									#71
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Fine Chris, I won't through my shock-value statement in there this time

To rephrase, "Some idiot decided the Jews had the right to and deserved their own state." Emphasis on idiot or idiots, especially because of where the Jewish State ended up being.

	06-12-2001 09:22									#72
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 How could I be hitting the Ouzo and type perfectly? Ouzo is lethal, you can barely walk if you indulge in it!

I know it, see my previous post.
i was hoping for a reasonable answer to those irrational statements.

quote: I only might drink 2 times every 2 months when in a big company of friends eating mezedes in a taverna on a saturday night. What I say comes from the heart.

Of course.

Back to the topic, ask yourself why we (Greece) don't make peace with Turkey, and constantly have problems with them.

Because they killed and enslaved us for years is why.

Just like the West and the Islamics have done to the Jews.

The only difference is we kicked the invader out of the land of the Helenes.

The Jews are working on it.

Think about it.

	06-12-2001 09:26									#73
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Because of the world of mass media the people of the present are focused on right now so much they ignore the past. What is happening now has happened for centuries. It cannot be stopped, it is the natural order of things.

	06-12-2001 09:26									#74
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If you wanna be REAL technical, Chris, the Jews are the ones who invaded what they refer to as the Holy Land - "the land of milk and honey" and all that...fought the Canaanites, Menonites, Amorites, etc., thousands of years ago.

So let's not shed too many tears for the Jews...sure they got treated like ****, then again they treated other people like ****, and when it comes down to it virtually every group has gotten treated like **** at some point in time.

And what's Ouza? What's the a/c in it? Never heard of it.

	06-12-2001 09:28									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Kyle You know, genocide, the systematic attempt to wipe out an entire people. To say that in regards to the US Air Force is false.

Good call, I was indeed mistaken.

Go for 'mass-murder of innocent lives' instead, as that is what I meant which you probably knew seeing as you picked up on my incorrect word usage.

	06-12-2001 09:32									#76
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd when it comes down to it virtually every group has gotten treated like **** at some point in time.

"He speaks the truth, excellency."

Or to be more accurate; 'when it comes down to it vitually every group have treaten others like ****'.

The human race is designed with the superiority complex in order to encourage aggression and keep down the numbers.

	06-12-2001 09:34									#77
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Faboba - exactly...that's why I don't cry to much over the plight of the Jews. Sure, the Holocaust was horrible, but just read the Old Testament if you want to see some examples of Jews inflicting atrocities on others.

	06-12-2001 09:37									#78
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd If you wanna be REAL technical, Chris, the Jews are the ones who invaded what they refer to as the Holy Land - "the land of milk and honey" and all that...fought the Canaanites, Menonites, Amorites, etc., thousands of years ago.

Shouldn't go back that far, because jews can use God's promise to Adam as proof the ENTIRE world belongs to the jews.
As for who has a stronger claim on Israel, the Jews or the Pals, the Jews win hands down.
They tried to live in peace.
The Pals don't.
They teach that the future will be better.
The Pals teach their children that the Jews are sub human and must be destroyed.
The Jews tried to live by the 67 borders.
The Pals say they want to drive the Jews into the sea.
In 1900, there were few people living in Palestine, and the mix was almost even between Jews, Islamics and Christians, so jetizen the notion that WWII was the spur for Zionism, it was the Dreyfuss affair that sparked the international movement.

quote: So let's not shed too many tears for the Jews...sure they got treated like ****, then again they treated other people like ****, and when it comes down to it virtually every group has gotten treated like **** at some point in time.

No group of people have been systimatically mistreated as they have been, by all around them through history.

quote: And what's Ouza? What's the a/c in it? Never heard of it.

Powerful Greek alcohol.
I forget the blends, but it will knock you on your ass.

	06-12-2001 09:41									#79
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Faboba - exactly...that's why I don't cry to much over the plight of the Jews. Sure, the Holocaust was horrible, but just read the Old Testament if you want to see some examples of Jews inflicting atrocities on others.

Anti-semitism is quite unbecoming.

More jews died in the Holocaust than in all the wars in history before the 20th century.

Best find a different analogy, your starting to sound like alot of the Jew baiters on this forum.

	06-12-2001 09:48									#80
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 And president Arafat is a charismatic leader, a hero trying to save small children from the clutches of a fascist state. He will live in history as one of the great ones.

Are you talking about this guy. Looks more like one of those guys from the 80's that ran around highjacking planes and killing Jewish atheletes.

	06-12-2001 09:52									#81
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EU/NATO without america could never pull somthing like that off. As Sirot said.....America would gun u down before your planes reached Israeli airspace .

Of course...then the IDF could be free to bomb Europe (go get em' )

I think in reality...America would most definetaly fight alongside Israel to the last. Without a doubt.....If 100,000,000 Arabs attacked Israel tommorrow. We promise to evacuate you to Cyprus the next day

	06-12-2001 09:53									#82
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quote: Shouldn't go back that far, because jews can use God's promise to Adam as proof the ENTIRE world belongs to the jews.

Wouldn't quite call that proof

quote: As for who has a stronger claim on Israel, the Jews or the Pals, the Jews win hands down.

Most of the Jews who currently live in Israel either weren't born there, or were born to parents who weren't born there. The vast majority, I'd imagine. So really, it's a state being set up to pander to a specific religion because they got mistreated. In return, they get to mistreat people from another religion

quote: Anti-semitism is quite unbecoming. More jews died in the Holocaust than in all the wars in history before the 20th century. Best find a different analogy, your starting to sound like alot of the Jew baiters on this forum.

I'm not anti-semitic. I'm anti-Israel. I also don't have a whole lot of patience for people who believe that Jews are blameless and for some reason deserve a homeland. And I didn't see you deny that, according to the Old Testament, Jews inflicted horrible atrocities on others.

And I'm sure more Jews died in the Holocaust than in any other war in history. So did more Russians. For that matter, Stalin killed more Ukrainians than ever died in the history of war. Mao killed more Chinese. So what? Should the friends or descendants of those killed get their own homeland carved out of the worst imaginable spot? Because if religion and oppression are good reasons, then political differences and oppression must be equally good, eh?

	06-12-2001 09:54									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Anti-semitism is quite unbecoming.

So is race-baiting.

	06-12-2001 10:00									#84
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd . And I didn't see you deny that, according to the Old Testament, Jews inflicted horrible atrocities on others.

"According"

Its a known fact Israel drove out the Caanite's with relative ease, depite being outnumbered 6-1. But who didnt commit atrocities back then You cant blame them for somthing they did 5,000 years ago.

quote: I'm anti-Israel. I also don't have a whole lot of patience for people who believe that Jews are blameless and for some reason deserve a homeland

Sorry......let the poor fellows live Stop blaming every earthquake,plague, and economic downturn on the Jews.

Throughout history they have been hassled and perscuted by people like you...leave them alone dude! Israel is here to stay.....from the dead sea to the E. Med. Every inch of it is rightfully theres...

	06-12-2001 10:05									#85
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quote: "According" Its a known fact Israel drove out the Caanite's with relative ease, depite being outnumbered 6-1. But who didnt commit atrocities back then You cant blame them for somthing they did 5,000 years ago.

Fine. So stop bringing up stuff about Jews being **** on by others. Let's look at the situation as it is now, without looking at prior history. Oops, doesn't look so good for Israel anymore, now does it?

quote: Sorry......let the poor fellows live Stop blaming every earthquake,plague, and economic downturn on the Jews. Throughout history they have been hassled and perscuted by people like you...leave them alone dude! Israel is here to stay.....from the dead sea to the E. Med. Every inch of it is rightfully theres...

Sorry, you are reading stuff into my comments that I didn't say. I don't blame Jews for the Depression, or anything else. It's simply that they have hassled and persecuted others plenty themselves, and I'm sick of all these people refusing to accept that Jews or Israel have ever done anything bad.

	06-12-2001 10:05									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Good call, I was indeed mistaken. Go for 'mass-murder of innocent lives' instead, as that is what I meant which you probably knew seeing as you picked up on my incorrect word usage.

I knew what you meant, doesn't mean it's right. Up until the early 70's, it was still 'okay' to inflict mass casulties on your enemy's populace. A way to hurt them and get them to surrender. It had always been that way. Is it right? No, probably not. The rules of warfare have changed and the US is the absolute best at trying to minimize civilian casualties. Unfortunately, accidents happen.

	06-12-2001 10:14									#87
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Ok.....here are some things for you to consider....


1)There has NEVER been a palestinian state
2)Who is starting what and who is responding to what?
3)If Arafat CANNOT control the terrorists in a small.....limited autonomous state. How the hell do you think he can do it in an independant one?

	06-12-2001 10:16									#88
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quote: 1)There has NEVER been a palestinian state

Granted. And they probably don't even need one either. Or at least, they wouldn't, if either Israel disappeared or at the VERY least started treating them fairly and decently. But at this point, if the Jews get their own state, the Palestinians damn well better too.

quote: 2)Who is starting what and who is responding to what?

I'd say the whole thing was started by the idiotic idea of a)a Jewish state and b)putting that state where it is now.

quote: 3)If Arafat CANNOT control the terrorists in a small.....limited autonomous state. How the hell do you think he can do it in an independant one?

Ah, but if the Palestinians had their state, or if there was no Israel, much of that terrorism would disappear, don't you think?

	06-12-2001 10:20									#89
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I'd say the whole thing was started by the idiotic idea of a)a Jewish state and b)putting that state where it is now.

Well where else would you have put a Jewish state

(Besides what your probably thinking, back into concentrations camps )

	06-12-2001 10:22									#90
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Ah, but if the Palestinians had their state, or if there was no Israel, much of that terrorism would disappear, don't you think?

The fact that you even suggest the latter is very troubling.