17-12-2001 02:29									#31
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Internet and Globesat

Concerning Government...Fascism is generally the way to go if your already ahead. IF your behind and want to catch up via war, Comunism...

If you are an isolationist, who doesnt care to be in last place. Might as well stick with Theocracy

	17-12-2001 02:31									#32
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Oh yea. My Fascist theory is jsut that, a theory. Ive never been on the recieving end of a Fascist attack when ive had musketeers. So someone else can probably tell me i might be wrong.

	17-12-2001 05:22									#33
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Fascism is a spectacular Government, with one ENORMOUS drawback...... when you change government, you lose all Fascists!!- This is not an issue, if the game is won in the modern era, but the Government just don't work later in the game.... I am in a PBEM with Quinns, and he over ran many of my cities, and annihilated another two civs.... then he could not attack anymore, cos he had reached the city limit for his Government.... He had me down to 15 cities, he had 70 or so.... But unhappiness crushed him for many turns, and I got back into the game (I was Technocracy)...

	17-12-2001 19:29									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka I think the biggest mistake people make is to Build too much rubbish in a city....

I agree. Less city improvements means more gold therefore better science.
Only build what is needed, never more. Especially when your cities are bellow population 10.

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Dont build universitys or Academys.

Academies are much better than Publishing Houses. They give 1/2 science per citizen and plus 50% on city's science output.
One Academy costs 4 gold maintanance. 1 gold gives 1,25 science under Theocracy. In a population 10 city one academy gives you 7 science and it wastes you 5 science from maintance cost so in large cities academies if combined with Publishing Houses and Universities it can boost your science.

quote: Originally posted by Lung Your stack of tanks makes nice target practice for bombers which soften them up for easy counter-strikes.

That's why you never attack enemy troops in the open with stacks of tanks unless you can't do otherwise. You use aircrafts for that where you can bring them back to your bases on the same turn. If he has many active air defence units then send a decoy to pull all his air defence and then send the rest

quote: Originally posted by Maestro Question of course is, how long will CTP PBEM still run ?

That is entirely up to us. I personaly will not give up my current games. I will go till the end.

quote: Originally posted by Maestro I NEVER use coliseums.

What do you do in large cities above population of 12 on deity level, with no wonders that improves happiness? That is -11 with no improvements or specialists! I think the +2 happiness it gives it might be proved critical in some cases.

quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Lastly City Walls in the most part are for wussies - they're unnecessary and you're not actually going to be foolish enough to be attacked first are you!!?

Have you ever attacked a city built on grassland with no city walls and then attack with the same forces in a city built on forrest with city wall and with the same number of defenders? Maybe there is no reason to build city walls to every city of yours but in those near your borders you need to. And if you are about to build the alien project you need to double fortify those cities you are going to use to build the components cause you will see a massive attack from all the rest nations comming toward you and you will need to hold a few turns to complete the project but need strong defence and city walls is one of them.

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Cavalry are one of the most debated units in the game.... you either love em or hate them....yes they are great for a suprise attack..... they are the only unit that can attack by suprise from outside a cities bounds apart from Samurai and Knights..... Problem with them is they are not gonna defend the city - so yeh they are good for a loot attack....but VERY expensive to build...

Knights, Cavalry, Tanks, Fusion Tanks are the best units each one on their age for aggressive play. Use them and your opponent will have troubles

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Early wonders are all False Glory!!!!! Ramayana, Sphinx, Labrinyth are a huge waste of production. They fail when you need them most!(renissance!) Stonehenge is the exception.

I agree but Stonehenge too. The get obsolete too quickly. The only ones that are good is Chichen Itza, the best ancient wonder in my opinion and Confucius Academy

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Fascism is a spectacular Government, with one ENORMOUS drawback...... when you change government, you lose all Fascists!!

It also doesn't take any gold bonus. Since the most likely when you get in the Genetic age is to change government unless you are in war state you shouldn't build fasists cause you are going to lose them all while if you had built MG intead you would still had them. Only build them if you are in war and send them in the first line so to die first

	17-12-2001 20:33									#35
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Keygen wise and informative post thanks!

	17-12-2001 22:13									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen What do you do in large cities above population of 12 on deity level, with no wonders that improves happiness?

A temple and theater give +3 happiness.
With the nanopedia, each single entertainer gives +4 happiness.

Of course, nanopedia is only available very late in the game, and you are in trouble if another nation captures it.

	17-12-2001 23:15									#37
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well on that basis personally I would go for Sensorium... , I never considered building Nanopaedia for Happiness, more for Prod and Science...

	18-12-2001 07:59									#38
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Does anyone use subs? What about stealth subs? Anyone have opinions on sea maps?

	18-12-2001 15:53									#39
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Subs are a superb unit.. Stealth units better still - A little know fact - subs and steatlh subs are excellent units for attacking coastal cities prior to unloading troops.... also there are some strange anomalies about back row ranged units not being able to damage ships and subs, and if u can outscience your opposition, subs versus sols are a very good battle, even if they have Battleships, you always end up with a wary opponent, reluctant to send exploration units out.. I have a map, which incorporates all areas of the game - it is four Islands, Identical, with a land bridge and single mountains at sea with 4 whales to each mountain.... The map was created by quinns, I am playing for the second time on this map, you learn an enormous amount from it, I will send it to you tonight...

	18-12-2001 21:56									#40
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Agree with Gav's comments.

I took a undersea city from Maestro in the US game - protected by spacefighters and even a levitian. All defenders killed by ONLY ON STEATH SUB! Now I know this is a gamebug (has to be) - but it worked. I believe that if the underseacity been defended by only one sea-unit, I had failed.

Second.

The facist-musketeers question. I have seen it working. In Lung Fast with Lung/Stavros as facists and I, St.Jon and Paul as Commies (we were always 5-6-7-8 turns behind in techs, meaning we got marines 5-8 turns after they got facists and so on). Commies as allied against the facists.

I saw St. Jons great Indian nation be killed by Lung. Fast. Too fast. Jon did one - great - mistake. He builded battleships én mass - but only a few cannons. "Safety lines" made by musketeers and other medieval units one-by-one in lines. He couldn't hold Lung - and we couldn't help him.

I builded lots of cannons. Stacked them with no-ranges units in deeper rows. Stopping him and bombarding him before he reached my cities (with one exception). I could even attack Stavros and keep him back. Even re-conquering that city he took from me.

Then he turned back into his cave and stayed there .

But the gain Lung took by getting the whole indian nations with all the big cities - that was too much. Finally the Bird was shot down also (SniperLung ).

ANYWAY - WHAT A HEL. OF A GAME. I LOVED IT

	19-12-2001 04:56									#41
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Thanks for the map Gavrushka, I will look at it when I get it.

quote: Subs are a superb unit.. Stealth units better still

I usually build destoryers over battle ships, they move faster, cost half as less, see further, and can see your pesky subs

quote: I took a undersea city from Maestro in the US game - protected by spacefighters and even a levitian. All defenders killed by ONLY ON STEATH SUB! Now I know this is a gamebug (has to be) - but it worked. I believe that if the underseacity been defended by only one sea-unit, I had failed.

So then the best unit to defend in a sea or costal city is ship
damn bugs

	19-12-2001 10:07									#42
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No, not alone. I do not think so.

But if you include one or two ships in the defenderstack, then maybe?!

	19-12-2001 20:45									#43
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Max that strategy might work...you say it does so I believe you ! However, I dont know...Your pretty much doomed until you get Marines...of course Ive had in a few MP games where I was Fascist's attacking the muskets. A few players used to build Fort's on Roads...stack them with 4-6 muskets, rest cannon. Those held up very well.long enough for them to produce more muskets..and eventually get machine gunners..usaully took about 15 Fascists to break through. But by then he had machine gunners...and Fascist vs Machine Gunners/Artillery...is where it gets tough

	20-12-2001 18:58									#44
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WOW thanks for all the tips, duly saved onto my hard drive to refine further.

Gav agreed on the subs thing, subs do the job when attacking coastal cities. I wondered why they did so well, you have answered it, back rows of stacks weakened.

GAV after playing with you and Black ice I don't yet feel good enough to join PBEM. Right now I get little time to play as I have a lot on my plate. And, I will have little time until Feb next year. I did visit the thread you mentioned but by the time I looked there was already a message that there was no more room for other players. Sorry I should have e-mailed you, just lazy I guess.

Well happy Xmas and merry new year (or something like that) Gav, Black ice, BerEx, Quinns, Saded glory, Locutus, Solver (I still chuckle to myself about the runnning beer), eli, Venger, Scouse gits, Dictatress, hexagonian, Wes, Mark G, Yin26, and anyone else I have forumed (can this be a verb) with since the new year along with those checking out his thread, even those that hate CTP.

ajsbkk@yahoo.com

Last edited by Boney on 20-12-2001 at 19:04

	20-12-2001 20:37									#45
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Boney, this will upset a few people but it needs to be said.... Internet Players are usually far superior to PBEM players, not because they are 'Better' Players, but the experience that Internet Play gives you, the ability to readily see cause and affect means that in PBEM players are not usually as good.... there are a few players that play both..... berXpert and Franses being good examples.... I think both will readily agree that Internet Play has vastly improved there PBEM ability... I took over a PBEM game from another 'good' player fairly recently.... and was horrified at what I saw.... and this person was leading the game... Cities building Marketplaces that produced 10 gold, cities with 78 happiness building Coliseums.... Out-dated military, and undefended cities..... Aaaargghhh!

	21-12-2001 00:04									#46
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Good point Gav, I used to play internet games about a year and a half ago and I use my experience from knowing what my opponent may be doing to help me figure out what I am going to do. By watching the PG I can I can tell how fast my opponents are biulding. In the begining of a game when their power drops usually means they built a city

Anyone have micromanagement tips or air unit stratagies?

	21-12-2001 01:04									#47
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Micromanagement tips for the day

Always drop your science when the new tech is at one, until it hits two then back up a notch to one. The gold gained by this move is amazing and well worth the time.

Always build mines, generally I have my settings fixed after Theo. Workday maxed gold 73, 74 happiness whatever I can get away with and food one notch back. Pw on 10 from the onset and I just build mines period. I look for areas that cities can share mines at first and preferably on diamonds etc.

The only time I build food boosters is when I get large fisheries the rest is a waste. Use the mines to speed settlers and granaries in the cities. When granaries are built go back to food and wait until size three city then back to the mine to speed things along. Before theo put your workers on goods to speed science I do not change my settings unless I drop wages back one to speed early science. Once at theo you generally do not need the workers on goods unless it is a river tile of course but do not go out of your way food and monos are the key at this point. Early science for me averages a tech per 3-4 turns until the mono is complete then 2-3 per turn for the rest of the time until mills.

Constantly monitor your cities at first for size, production and gold advantage ie: at two find a mine or other gold to put workers on it speeds up early science, granaries and settlers that is critical.

Look for monos when you find them use your gold and mines to rush buy markets and banks for the mono city so plan ahead. I do not rush buy anything until factories. That is critical factories rush bought can save the day. Usually with this strategy I have 12 to 18 thousand dollars by factories with starting gold at 5000. Factories are always build in major cities before turn 100...So that is an average of 9000 gold saved...

When I have nothing more to build in cities I go for caravans until infra then change ALL to infrastructure for a few turns then back to caravans for quick mill building I will turn pw to 20 at this time and back when building mills to 10. Again just build mines, once past mills if you have island game build all ships if land all troops. At this point you are building science in few cities infra in others, you should have extra caravans. Basically the one third rule but that changes with your immediate needs. Berxpert points out the science factor at latter stages of the game it is the dedication to at least two science cities that make your science stable and monos of course.

This is for a war game and mostly online as Gav had said the difference between PBEM and online is huge. I actually had my online gaming distorted by having to change strategies for PBEM. The big advantage to PBEM is learning to play different terrains the friendships gained and the stories told.

Thank you Boney and Merry Christmas to everyone and all your families. May it be safe and happy for all you and yours

	21-12-2001 02:42									#48
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Excellent Post Blackice

Merry Christmas to all have a great one

	21-12-2001 03:03									#49
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Always drop your science when the new tech is at one, until it hits two then back up a notch to one. The gold gained by this move is amazing and well worth the time.

Doesn't your next tech take longer to research then ?

	21-12-2001 03:47									#50
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Sorry maestro I am not the best at thoughts to page

On the following tech you increase science to max unless of course it is not needed.

I have seen the next tech at 1 turn science at 10. This takes a lot of attention but the gains are well worth the management.

As paulino1 pointed out too many times he has mega gold this mines, monos and raising gold in a large city or two in the factories stage of the game are the way to do it.

I have also if I have the time put all cities on raising gold before building factories. Obviously this can create a mega boost in gold and has saved my a$$ in a few games with Quinns. I was able to buy troops whatever to knock him back more than one offensive.

I will correct something else I said... I build markets and banks by buying them outright and then I buy nothing else until Factories.

So all cities caravans and then infrastructure and then all gold one or two turns produces lots especially if you do it when your tech is at one turn to go. Crank the pw, crank the gold all maxed in all cities for one turn. Try it...

	21-12-2001 03:59									#51
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Thank you gav the very best to you and yours

This year will be different I suspect

	22-12-2001 09:32									#52
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Thank you Blackice, as I understand your supposed to be a wiz at micromanagement somthing which I have never boasted about

Anyone know a good air power tactic?

	22-12-2001 09:42									#53
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Mobile Sam's and interceptors. Interceptors practically obselete the need for massive Navies....as Swissy has found out in monkey


There really is no air-superiority in CTP. None that I know of......just lay back and shoot down what you can. having about 12 x 15 interceptors is a good idea. They are multi-role...so they work well for ground/whatever else.

	22-12-2001 10:13									#54
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quote: Thank you Blackice, as I understand your supposed to be a wiz at micromanagement somthing which I have never boasted about

Nor have I but if you would like to show me I am available

	22-12-2001 11:22									#55
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Can intercepter/mobile sams be used for nuke defense where SDI unavailable?

So I guess the next step would be to take space and land units right by their biggest cities.

	22-12-2001 14:02									#56
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YES BUT.......... All active air defence unloads on the first unit... SO if you sent a Fighter to the city you wanted to Nuke first, all active air defence would have fired, the Nuke would get through..... Bye BYe City.....

WHENEVER you attack with air power never move a stack to a city (in case of active air defence) ALWAYS move a single expendable unit first to unspring the defence.... Never send Bombers without a fighter escort - a Single fighter will shoot down a nine stack of Bombers.... ALWAYS Maintain a few Flights of Space Fighters in Space as a Rapid Reaction force....... they can attack about anywhere on the map the same turn....BUT Just operating Space Fighters causes ENORMOUS Pollution - It could revolt your whole Civ - REMEMBER THAT...

With a mass of Space fighters and a Dozen Space planes with Units in... Storm Marines, Marines are good.... You can wipe out your enemy in a single turn....Space Fighters attack and empty city, space plane descends and unloads into city... Swarm better still - they can descend from space straight into an unoccupied city..... Then move (space fighters have a single square move left after space descend/attack) the Space fighters into cities you captured to bolster defence..

I am NEVER playing Nimrod after this..... He now has the very best strategy has to offer...........I wanna see you top PBEM and Internet charts within the month......

	22-12-2001 19:58									#57
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And one important thing more - specially when the game gets old.

Never-never be lazy

I simply can't remember the number of turns I "dropped" by not having a clear strategi for building/improving tiles in the US-game.

From the moment Spain (Swissy) was no more a real enemy and until I saw the "light" when Canada (Don) lost everything in revolt, I more-or-less just moved and builded for fun - making small fightings with the babarians.

Surely Maestro would have been in more trouble now, if I have had a stronger morale and a more clear goal for my turns. But I was simply lazy and unconcentrated for too many turns. And soon that game will be over for me too. A great number 2 - but who can use that?

I will not repeat that mistake again .

	23-12-2001 01:13									#58
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Good point Bird There comes a point in every game where you lose direction..... If you are waiting for an advance and are not engaged in Military activities focus yourself by upgrading military, upping infrastructure, and replacing tired old farms and mines and fisheries with the best you can, switch workers to Scientists, micromanage.... KEEP FOCUSED.

One thing many people forget is this is a WAR GAME... Diplomacy is nothing more than posturing to improve your Civs position - NO ONE ever won this game by defending (IF you let a game get to the point of Alien Life thingy, it is different... But no game I am in will ever get to that stage NEVER EVER EVER NEVER) So you must attack.... IN PBEM attacks seem to be very different... wierd since it is the same game....But an attack is not sending units capturing a city and relaxing... it is building constant military pushing your front line ALL the time, peaceful times favour defenders, so keep pushing all the way, but not to the exclusion of all else... AND when under attack do not go into defence at all costs...you WILL LOSE THE GAME..... You must counter... Many attackers will do just that attack, and forget all else... watch the science... has the enemy discover something that will mean they can attack a different way...... later in the game do not let your opponent establish sea or space cities.... A sea city fully operational (they grow in but a few turns) will churn out 13000 prod, a space city with a nanite factory will drop a space fighter every turn for 2250 gold, or a Space Bomber for 7500 Gold.....

Another thing I did in a recent game..... Spotted a nine stack of mounted units close to a city of mine... I disbanded the city and moved it to a mountain top... then goaded opponent into attacking..... they won then lost the entire nine stack as the city was destroyed.... turn every defeat into a victory.... If you are gonna lose a city, sell the best happiness improvement, or Production Improvement, set city to infrastructure... Or the enemy will carry on prod where you had left off.... No point in making it easier for them... It is a pretty good felling capturing a city, switching prod to Oil Ref to find it is ready next turn.... Thank you Mr Enemy!

	23-12-2001 04:58									#59
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan I will not repeat that mistake again .

Ah, isn't that the sweet smell of a grudge match coming up ?

By the way, the problem is not always lazyness.
Sometimes you just don't have the time to spend a full hour plotting and planning a full late-game turn.

	08-01-2002 04:47									#60
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*BUMP*

Does anyone have anything new to add? It seems a shame to let this thread slip into oblivion??