08-01-2002 05:28									#61
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I had been playing vs Grafxfx for the las 2 weekends on small map 3 settlers 100 gold and 2 AI.

The first one he kick me with 3 stacks of 9 muskets + cannions, even I had SOL I can't stop him

At second, same configuration I was kicking him, with a stack of 9 SOL I take his farest city defended by 4 canions and 2 muskets. It was hard to take, after 9 bombards he didn't lost a single unit, I had to unload 9 cavalries to take the city the next turn lossing 4 of them. A couple of turns late he take his city back with the same formation of 2 stacks of 9 muskes + cannions while my SOL didn't work to take other city.



Can somebody explain me how could he make such a that great defence? I was thinking about the words of Gav about no one can win defending him self, but I loss 30 units while he only loss 6

The game was saved to continue I'm ready to get submarines in 4 turns while he is far by 10-12 discoveries, I have communism he don't, so I guess that a big flote of submarines can do the job... but I was thinking that stacks of 9 SOL can too

	08-01-2002 09:09									#62
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Hmm, ber usually when you bombard with 9 SOLs it will take out around 3 muskets or cannons, but if they are in a city or fort and still alive by the start of that players turn then they are fully healed. As a units defense goes up, it is less affected by some older units that bombard like the SOL or cannon.

On another note, what about making a poll of best wonders per age, best wonder overall, and best age for wonders? It would be something to add to this thing.

	08-01-2002 10:33									#63
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quote: but if they are in a city or fort and still alive by the start of that players turn then they are fully healed. As a units defense goes up, it is less affected by some older units that bombard like the SOL or cannon.

Explain that I have yet to see units heal themselves in a turn.
Explain "defence goes up" if a stack attacks you and you survive yes you become vet but you are being bombarded it doesn't.

quote: I was thinking about the words of Gav about no one can win defending him self, but I loss 30 units while he only loss 6

I have shown you defence but it sounds fishy to me?

I give him as I have played him a big HUMMMMMMMMM... He has similar style to my first strategy no trade all cities have markets but...You are single shot attacking not all at once?

Go for subs and use them to attack his coastal cities. Just slam them into the cities 3 subs usually take out a nine stack of muskets and cannons in any city.

	08-01-2002 11:18									#64
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Umm......BerX Naval Defense is a *****.


But heres what I do on MP games.


First off, you HAVE to know where his ships concentrations are. Then, send a SOL or destroyer out for bait, whilst retreat the rest of your ships to safe, but within striking distance of that bait unit. Then, when he attack's the bait unit with his naval stack, your turn you move your stack up and bombard the hell outta his stack that took the bait.

As for land, that is more difficult/annoying. Cause defensive values are lower. The Fort is the greatest tool. Put it in a important spot, and supplement it with the right troops, artillery/WW. And it is invicinible.

Of course, Hills and Mountains also serve as awesome defense spots to end your turn on.



I also take back what I said earlier about not having air-defense until SDI. It seems In games like World Scenario I should of taken Keygens advice and built SAM's or Interceptors in all of my cities.....instead I got nuked to hell.

	08-01-2002 14:08									#65
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BerXpert...... When we played online.. you did something strange, which I see you are still doing..... you had a nine stack of Cannons that bombarded, and a nine stack of Cavalry that attacked...... Now after bombarding with nine cannons you attacked with nine cavalry and lost four of them..... Units are designed to be mixed.... I would venture to suggest if you had attacked with 5 Cavalry and 4 cannons you would have only lost one or two units..... And also I said that it was CRAZY to attack unless you know you can hold a city.... I don't know what your supply lines were like, but you should have had a further nine stack or two already advancing on the next city.. IF you have nine cavalry defending a city you are going to lose it and lose it quickly - nine cavalry defend like the cheapest nastiest unit from the ancient age... the Phalanx..

Faded, baiting the opponent is a great strategy.... It is also amazing how many times you can have a nine stack pursue a single ship half way across the map onlt to fall into a waiting Armada...

Ship attacks on Coastal cities are very powerful, they also cause more unhappiness than a straightforward bombard to the enemy...

	08-01-2002 14:46									#66
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quote: and built SAM's or Interceptors in all of my cities.....instead I got nuked to hell

Of course you should!

Also remember, that the combination of 4 SAMs and 5 Tanks are ..... Ummmm..... delicious. Fast and with bombarding ability.

That is, only if you control the stack - else .

BTW: SAMs also protect you from being hit by the first airstrike (hehe.... I know, use a decoy first - then hit them)!

	08-01-2002 19:18									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka also there are some strange anomalies about back row ranged units not being able to damage ships and subs

This also happens when you've got ships with bombard ability within a city. Your battleships may bombard the land enemy units but it is shooting in the air. The enemy land units do not lose any power at all but the battleships in the contrary they do get sunk.

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka I have a map, which incorporates all areas of the game - it is four Islands, Identical, with a land bridge and single mountains at sea with 4 whales to each mountain.... The map was created by quinns, I am playing for the second time on this map, you learn an enormous amount from it, I will send it to you tonight...

Sounds interesting. Could you send it to me too?

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Internet Players are usually far superior to PBEM players, not because they are 'Better' Players, but the experience that Internet Play gives you, the ability to readily see cause and affect means that in PBEM players are not usually as good

Although I don't play Internet games I will agree on this with Gav.
That is because you can test different strategies or tricks and have straightforward and faster results than when you play a PBEM game.
Internet games are far better for improving your skills while PBEM is all about diplomacy and fun. Usually diplomacy is what makes winners in PBEM games rather than skills (of cource if there is no huge skill difference between players).

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Mobile Sam's and interceptors. Interceptors practically obselete the need for massive Navies....as Swissy has found out in monkey

Aircraft (Interceptors, bombers, etc.) in quantities is the best unit for defencive play and one of the best for offensive play. They are not that good within a city for defencive role rather than for fast raids and counterattacks against enemy approaching units, land, air or naval.

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka YES BUT.......... All active air defence unloads on the first unit... SO if you sent a Fighter to the city you wanted to Nuke first, all active air defence would have fired, the Nuke would get through..... Bye BYe City..... WHENEVER you attack with air power never move a stack to a city (in case of active air defence) ALWAYS move a single expendable unit first to unspring the defence.... Never send Bombers without a fighter escort - a Single fighter will shoot down a nine stack of Bombers....

It is true that active defence is spent all in the first strike. Whether you have one active defence unit or 9 stacked together they will only attack once. If you send another air units it won't suffer active defence. This is a good trick to use in conjunction with nukes. Send a decoy and then send the nuke and boom!

Be careful of the active defence in case you want to move an air units or drop a paratrooper. If both passes beside a tile that have an active defence unit they will get attacked. The paratrooper will be lost for sure.

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Another thing I did in a recent game..... Spotted a nine stack of mounted units close to a city of mine... I disbanded the city and moved it to a mountain top... then goaded opponent into attacking..... they won then lost the entire nine stack as the city was destroyed.... turn every defeat into a victory.... If you are gonna lose a city, sell the best happiness improvement, or Production Improvement, set city to infrastructure... Or the enemy will carry on prod where you had left off.... No point in making it easier for them... It is a pretty good felling capturing a city, switching prod to Oil Ref to find it is ready next turn.... Thank you Mr Enemy!

He attacked a city of population 1 built on top of a mountain with units that can't move in mountain?

quote: Originally posted by berXpert At second, same configuration I was kicking him, with a stack of 9 SOL I take his farest city defended by 4 canions and 2 muskets. It was hard to take, after 9 bombards he didn't lost a single unit, I had to unload 9 cavalries to take the city the next turn lossing 4 of them. A couple of turns late he take his city back with the same formation of 2 stacks of 9 muskes + cannions while my SOL didn't work to take other city. Can somebody explain me how could he make such a that great defence? I was thinking about the words of Gav about no one can win defending him self, but I loss 30 units while he only loss 6

It depends on the type of units he've got and the defence bonuses (fortified, city wall, forrest, etc.).
With 7-9 musketeers, fortified within a city built in a mountain or forrest of hill with a city wall can handle a great deal of bombarding units. I am not sure if they can handle 9 SotL without loosing a single one but it can be done with a little less SotL and few casualties if he updates his units with new one from a nearby city and sending there the heavily woonded units to that city to heal.

quote: Originally posted by Nimrod but if they are in a city or fort and still alive by the start of that players turn then they are fully healed.

A units if standing within a city it takes two turns to get fully healed and not one.

	09-01-2002 09:56									#68
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A unit must spend a full turn while in a city or fort to fully regenerate. Just like a unit must spend a full turn not taking any actions like moving, bombarding, or attacking to regain some lost hit points while on the open field.

What I meant by defense going up was the terrain a unit is on city walls, fort, fortified factors, and more advance unit, muskets to machine gunners for example.

	09-01-2002 10:06									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka BerXpert...... When we played online.. you did something strange, which I see you are still doing..... you had a nine stack of Cannons that bombarded, and a nine stack of Cavalry that attacked......

You are right, I'm doing the same mistake but when I attacked I was thinking he had nothing on the city after the bombarding 'cos I didn't saw a unit lost.

His city is on swamp or in a forest I think, with a city wall, maybe that's why he didn't lost a single unit, the city was size 5 or 4 so I can't disband it

	09-01-2002 13:05									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Nimrod A unit must spend a full turn while in a city or fort to fully regenerate.

If someone bombards a unit of yours within a city on let's say turn 10, on turn 11 your unit will be still wounded. On turn 12 it will be completely healed.

If your unit was not in a city whether he was fortified or not it will take him several turns to get healed.

I don't know what happens if your unit is on a tile that has a fortification tile improvement because I never build one

	10-01-2002 03:20									#71
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It would be good if someone had the time to catalogue all the superb Strategy tips that have been posted on this thread.... I would be delighted to then post it at www.civleague.com for people to refer to..

	10-01-2002 03:23									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I don't know what happens if your unit is on a tile that has a fortification tile improvement because I never build one

Fortifications do indeed work as cities for the purposes of unit healing.... If they are placed in a bottle neck they are a nightmare for the enemy to get past...

	10-01-2002 13:57									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Fortifications do indeed work as cities for the purposes of unit healing.... If they are placed in a bottle neck they are a nightmare for the enemy to get past...

I agree, but if he gets it becomes a nightmare for you

	10-01-2002 16:55									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I agree, but if he gets it becomes a nightmare for you

But if you are on the defence, an offensive nation ain't gonna suddenly turn Defensive and wait at your fortification, they will keep coming.... But agreed you will end up losing 4 or 5 times as many units capturing the Fort back, but likewise your enemy would in the first place..

	10-01-2002 18:10									#75
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Nuke those forts I say

	10-01-2002 18:58									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka But if you are on the defence, an offensive nation ain't gonna suddenly turn Defensive and wait at your fortification, they will keep coming.... But agreed you will end up losing 4 or 5 times as many units capturing the Fort back, but likewise your enemy would in the first place..

Maybe, but I still don't trust fortifications.
In the early stage I use my valuable public work to build more usefull tile improvements. By the time I have plenty of them I am in the modern age where aircrafts of any type and nukes can easily wipe out your fortified units. I would prefer to have a city near a narrow passage than having a fortification. Your enemy won't know how many units you've got there, and with several city improvements you can have better defence and immunity in nukes.

	11-01-2002 07:01									#77
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I agree with Keygen, I have never found much use for forts. One exception that I can think of was the only time I was playing Paulno1 and another guy named Flames. They were both close on starting locations, reg map, all land, and they were also close to the only mountain range on the map. Both had build forts on or near the range to help defend it and protect their border. This is about the only situation that I would use forts.

	11-01-2002 07:10									#78
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That is why you place forts on Vital points like Railroads, or the little piece of land between 2 civs and ocean.

They are very useful! I played Tito.....long ago. And he actually beat me. I started my rampage with 27 Fascist battaljons...he knew about the troop build up. And in like-wise, placed Large Forts with 6 - 7 Machine gunners and compliments of Artillery and Cannon around his outskirt cities that faced me. Right dead smack through a railroad! I could not go around them.....then there would be more machine gunners by the time I walked all the way around. So I decided to go through 2 of them.....Big mistake. I dont remember, but I think I lost like 20 troops after taking them. The next turn, he just sent a few marines to sweep me out with ease.

And then the infamous rout home......where I fought a life and death struggle again millions of marines.

	11-01-2002 07:18									#79
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What is your gl name nimrod? Not many people know or have played Paulino1 and or flames...

	11-01-2002 13:16									#80
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory That is why you place forts on Vital points like Railroads, or the little piece of land between 2 civs and ocean. They are very useful! I played Tito.....long ago. And he actually beat me. I started my rampage with 27 Fascist battaljons...he knew about the troop build up. And in like-wise, placed Large Forts with 6 - 7 Machine gunners and compliments of Artillery and Cannon around his outskirt cities that faced me. Right dead smack through a railroad! I could not go around them.....then there would be more machine gunners by the time I walked all the way around. So I decided to go through 2 of them.....Big mistake. I dont remember, but I think I lost like 20 troops after taking them. The next turn, he just sent a few marines to sweep me out with ease. And then the infamous rout home......where I fought a life and death struggle again millions of marines.

Why didn't you use nukes?

In one of the Savlor's Deathmatch Modern Series I had played I had wiped out St Jon in a metter of few turns. I nuked a stack of marines of his adjacent to a city killing all of them including all fortified units in that city. I nuked 1-2 more cities and then sent almost all my units. The map was small with railroads all over the place so in few turns I had all of his cities.

If you had used nukes you would had wiped out all machine gunners and fortification with a couple of strikes only

	11-01-2002 13:27									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Why didn't you use nukes?

I think this is where Internet and PBEM Diverge.... Often in Internet play Nukes are banned... Whereas You may get Nukes in 6 months in PBEM - They could arrive in 3 hours in Internet play and end a game prematurely... So divergent Strategies apply .... In Such occassions I think the only way to try and drop a fort is by bombard or bombing UNLESS you have massive troop superiority, or far better units.... Alternatively abandon the attack, form a battle front, and take another direction...

And one other tactic I use in a BlitzKrieg type war..... If you capture a city, and are still rolling, the enemy often makes the assumption you will go for the next nearest city and reinforces it..... If you change direction and run at an unexpected city, you can end up isolating 'pockets of cities' and crush them at your leisure

	12-01-2002 11:26									#82
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Yes it was Blackice, but we never finished it. Flames and I were allied against Paul, made it to the late ren/early modern era before we stopped.

	12-01-2002 19:14									#83
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quote: Originally posted by blackice What is your gl name nimrod? Not many people know or have played Paulino1 and or flames...

I am not sure what you are answering to? But here is the question again

	12-01-2002 19:35									#84
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Hi Blackice

quote: What is your gl name nimrod? Not many people know or have played Paulino1 and or flames...

I think Nimrod answered the question --

What was your Gl Name? Nimrod?
or
What was your gl name, nimrod?

Hence the answer- Yes it was-
meaning- yes, it was Nimrod.

I am now pretty immersed with ctp2 cradle version, but still do not have time to play too much right now.

	13-01-2002 07:54									#85
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I am not sure what you are answering to? But here is the question again

I think I was when I read your post. Eirikr

	14-01-2002 00:24									#86
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Has anyone ever noticed that you can't bombard cities that are defended by aircraft ?

	14-01-2002 01:12									#87
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quote: Originally posted by jpww Has anyone ever noticed that you can't bombard cities that are defended by aircraft ?

I dont think you can bombard cities with special units like a spy or lawyer either


Note:
To all future readers,
A discussion and poll regarding the AI Entity can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...9135#post696984

	14-01-2002 13:19									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka I think this is where Internet and PBEM Diverge.... Often in Internet play Nukes are banned... Whereas You may get Nukes in 6 months in PBEM - They could arrive in 3 hours in Internet play and end a game prematurely... So divergent Strategies apply ....

I didn't know that nukes was banned in most Internet games.
Well, without nukes then fortifications might be usefull indeed in some cases.

I must find some time in weekends to play online

	17-01-2002 02:16									#89
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A discussion and poll regarding the different
governmants can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...66&pagenumber=1

Surprisingly, fasism was voted more popular than
democracy and communism. Hehe, but the best
government acorrding to the poll is corporate
republic. No one voted for monarchy or republic at
the time of this post, I dont blame you people. My
order of governments is usaully
theo-->commi-->corporate republic.

Fusion tank thread can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=28392

I love them, they can move over shallows and have 8
movment points.

In your opintion, what is the hardest part of the
game? Find out others opinion here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=27986

A "most powerful wonder" discussion can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=5500

For pure reading enjoyment, here is a story from an undeafeted diety player:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=5457

Someone asked for other people tricks and tips, that can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=5200

I found all these in the stratagy/creation/help forum on CTP here at apolyton. I have to get to class so I was unable to finish. Sometime in the near future, I hope to organize this thread for all to read.

Last edited by Nimrod on 17-01-2002 at 03:48

	17-01-2002 07:50									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Boney Hi Blackice I think Nimrod answered the question -- What was your Gl Name? Nimrod? or What was your gl name, nimrod? Hence the answer- Yes it was- meaning- yes, it was Nimrod. I am now pretty immersed with ctp2 cradle version, but still do not have time to play too much right now.

Well let me reword it simply because Nimrod is NOT a registered name in gameleague CTP or CTP2.

Nimrod what was your gl name? Since Nimrod is not a registered name what then did you go under. Paulino1 under as he has said rare occassions played newbies I have assumed you were a regular player.

I hope that helps solve the confusion of the question hi eirikr long time no see

Glad to see you finally made it here, you will add a lot to the PBEM crowd welcome aboard

quote: Phascnh here in case you had not figured it out as yet Game Descriptions: phascnh: Well this was good until he imploded! You have skill, you have moxy anytime for a rematch. You are good. Eirikr: I love playing this guy, he is my virtial equal. Normally the first unit I produce is a warrior, but in this game, since it was a small map, I started with slavers. I found him first and took a settler or two. All was pretty much quite until I got stirrup. Then I started to produce knights and took a few of his cities. But I could not produce them fast enough has he was ahead in tech and beat me to cannons. By the time I had them, I had only 4 cities left. So I decided to set wgaes and rations as low as they went and workday as high as it could be. None the less, on my next turn, my remaining cities revolted and I lost, hehe. Good game friend.

Truely one heck of a match this was