11-01-2002 17:05									#151
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There is no excuse however for the 60 mins slander, and taking it all out of proportion, including ridiculing of Greek PM. I guess Americans should agree with this, and as well that shows like that one actually support terrorism (indirectly) by giving reasons (to hate) to anti-american folk out there.

	11-01-2002 20:49									#152
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quote: We will still try to keep the peace between you and Turkey, as we are trying to do the same between India and Pakistan.

Don't be so sure about it. Greece and Turkey are figuring in the top of the list of clients for the American weapons industries. The American status quo wants a cold-war climate across the Aegean, because it promotes sales.

quote: with some exceptions like Axi

Being a commie doesn't mean that i am for barbarity and underdevelopment, as it is encountered in the Arab world. The current state of the Arabic countries is a heritage of British, French but chiefly American imperialism, who have supported undemocratic regimes just to get their hands on the oil.

	11-01-2002 22:08									#153
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What there is no smurfing excuse for is whatching CBS.

	12-01-2002 05:17									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Is there really a "Help me, I'm being oppressed" mentality in Greece (or the greek media) ?

There is a clear feeling of being pressed by the US in these matters:

_ make consessions and letting Turkey rearrange the air and water frontiers in the Aegean.

Greece has said that if Turkey is having problems with the frontiers as they are now they should challenge us in the international court of Hague as is dictated by the international law.

Turkey said we must discuss them between ourselves virtually refusing to obey international law.

And Greece is feeling that the US is giving its silent concent to Turkey.

With the euro army this issue has ressurfaced

_in the matter of Cyprus there is a feeling of "let down" by the international community which has been, somewhat, aleviated by the entrance of Cyprus (the free part) to the EU in 2003.

_in the matter of 17N and anti-terrorism measures in general there has been a monumental shift in the US policies towards Greece. Before 11 Sept there was mild pressure. After 11 Sept. it's a spirit of full fledged co-operation and pressure as was felt before has dissapeared. 17N was always in the back side of the minds of the Greeks though. It only ressurfaces when 17N attacks or US media attack

I think the US has realized that such matters are best dealed with in silence. And also it trusts Greece much more than in the past.

For example in the '80s the CIA was looking for the 17N itself inside Greece. They didn't even bother informing anyone of our police (propably because they didn't trust them to be able to help or not letting someting leak).

This has stopped in the early '90s. Propably in part because CIA agents were caught in the act by Greek police (and initially we thought THEY were the 17N and that we finally got them - grave violation of Greek sovereignity that one BTW) and in part because the US seems ready to co-operate - trust Greek authorities on this subject.

	12-01-2002 06:18									#155
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BTW in the matter of 17N the most brilliant of US negotiators are Holbrook (sp?) and the current ambassador to Greece Miller. (he has lost a very dear friend of his, killed by 17N).

Amongst the all time worst US negotiators and very counter - productive INMO were the ex CIA chief Woolsey. He claimed Greek officials had info about 17N and that they were hiding it. The government summoned him in a court of law to give all the evidence he had and he never showed up and also the ambassador of the US to Greece before Burns and Miller whos name escapes me at the moment.

These people lost their patience very quickly and attacked the most accomodating target: Greece producing a backlace that strained relationship in this matter.

Miller and Holbrook are much more in contact with reality in this issue than any other "cowboys" were which were actually hurting both Greek and US interests by their immaturity.

	12-01-2002 18:18									#156
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I'm getting bored of this...