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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
perhaps the most important part was when the CBS reporter directly asked the President of the Greek Parliament if he agrees with the actions of terrorists....
and a little bit of truth: there HAVE been arrests and trials for terrorism, just not for 17N. and yes, 17N has killed 22 people in the last 26 years. meanwhile ETA has killed over 800 in the last 30 years and OBL killed 4000 in a day... |
Back in the 70's and 80's, Athens and Athens airport were the major conduit for movement of terrorists including Abu Abbas, Abu Nidal and many others - even to the point of moving from one middle eastern destination to another, or from the ME to Africa, Asia or Europe.
For a major portion of the 80's, Athens airport was so notorious for it's lax security that the only major commercial airport in the world rated worse was Lagos, Nigeria. Nothing indicates that was due to incompetence or an inability to meet normal security standards - it was all apparently due to a habit of looking the other way while weapons, explosives, money and personnel out the wazoo went in and out of major ME terrorism hotspots, incuding Beirut, Damascus, and Tripoli.
Whatever the merits of the current flap, the Greeks do have a recent history of national/governmental tolerance and passive accomodation of internationally notorious terrorist groups, so long as they didn't base operations from Greek soil.
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Bereta_Eder
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If the US government has something to say to Greece they should say it up and front and with proof.
Hiding behind media slander while saying that all is well in our relations is hypocricy. It is counter - productive too.
Out in the open and with proof.
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Bereta_Eder
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Besides the airport (the new one!) is no longer on that list.
In the '70s and '80s Greece was a crossroad for both CIA and KGB agents fighting in foreign soils...
and I'd hardly call anything from american media a flap to anybody. But it does build up resentment of domestic public opinion against a country which facilitates your goals that's true.
But today, it's either bomb us or don't pester us. Since the first is impossible, these old school slanders do not mean much. And were in fact produced by old school guys. Things have changed. We are not in the '60s or '70's anymore and Greece's political integrity is solid and guarded...
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 10-01-2002 at 14:37
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Bereta_Eder
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He didn't indicate a specific body part. His phrase is open to interpretation.
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Bereta_Eder
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I wonder sometimes if we are ever going to be left alone to live in peace. We have Turkey and the US against us and there is no USSR to counter balance them 
Still it remains a fight of diplomacy untill of course a fine day the US decides that holding back Turkey from attacking no longer serves her interests...
With friends like these...
In the near future (it has already started) Greece will be used by the US (through Turkey) as a way to hold the EU by the balls and to dictate its own policies to the EU, lest it destablilizes the SE Europe.
France and Germany have clearly shown that this will not be tolerated but without either an EU army or a US stopping being dictatorial in its demands it doesn't mean much.
One way to erase this is to reach a solid Greek - Turkish relationship of friendly neighbooring. But that's impossible for the time being because we can't negotiate with, or approach a military regime which has US backing in its grandiose ideas of expansion of its influence.
Still INMHO Greece is way more secure than it ever was before both from US attempts to destabilize it (that's impossible anymore) as well as Turkey's aspirations in the Aegean.
Phew, Geopolitics is a ***** especially when you are in the crossroads of 3 continents. We seem to have done ok this far though. And it wasn't easy! Still open accounts remain.
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 10-01-2002 at 15:20
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
As I said earlier, the definition of the term has been bastardized by politically motivated and ignorant efforts not to apply it to groups where it would be either emberrassing or inconvenient to apply it. If that offends you, so be it. |
You have been labeling terrorists as freedom fighters for decades.
UCK, KLA, Mujahedin, Bin Laden to name a few.
quote:
Minimizing acts of purposeful murder, check. |
Puting them in their correct perspective and notoverblowing them like you tend to do.
quote:
Refering to a terrorist group as merely a group of "freedom fighters" who have lost thier way, check. |
Anyone with a Che Geuvera pic as his logo gets my sympathies  Seriously, I have never done what you are saying.
quote:
I do believe that you have been romanticizing the group in this thread. Now shove off if you have nothing more of value to say. |
You are free to do so.
quote:
Both of which are irrelevent unless these new PMs have actually made a signifigant effort to actually improve security which based on this thread it seems that they have not. |
Our interests take precedence over your interests. If it is in our interest to tighten security we will do so. You have to give us a reason to do it. Bombing isn't included 
Still you seem to jump to conclusions base on the impressions you get here. Not so prudent. Security has been beefed up since the cold war is over and your threats have been reduced so I guess there is no need for leverage of that sort any more. (if there EVER was).
Sikander,
Friends are made if friendly moves are made. Greece has been used as a pawn and as second class citizen by the US for decades now.
So what you're basically are saying is: comform and we wil be friendly. (not anyone believes it since other dangerous to us allies are more important to you) I guess what we are saying is: play nice and we will comform. A catch-22?
and lest it be forgotten all these accusations remain unfounded. Not a single shred of evidence.
I'll just go aheead and consider them all slander serving other purposes except if a proof is being forwarded. It hasn't been provided for 20 years, if it does now it will be a surprise.
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 10-01-2002 at 21:40
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
"Hizbollah, among others, aren't Palestinian."
Part-part. Oh, Greece may well have been tolerating certain PKK activities, too. Yet this tells little about the november group. Or does the support of all kinds of terrorist groups in latin america or maybe even europe through the US government or wild agents thereof mean that the US government is really allied with al Qaeda ? |
Supporting a nation's domestic right-wing thugs in power, or a nation's domestic right-wing thugs formerly in power but now a counterrevolutionary insurgency doesn't equate with terrorism. Converse with the flip side - the USSR's supporting of domestic leftist thugs who want to be in power. Particularly in the Latinamerican context, where until recently the vast majority of changes of government have been by coup or revolution, and those domestic revolutionary and counterrevolutionary groups spontaneously arose on a regular basis - the whole US / USSR + Cuba thing has been to support existing domestic groups which were ideologically friendly and potentially useful to one side's agenda or another.
My point is that whether the allegations about the current government are fair or not, until quite recently, the Greek government had a well-known reputation for letting Greece be a safe haven and travel hub. They didn't go quite as far as having a "Terrorist's club" in the airport with free drinks, Semtex, Kalashnikov's and a place to check your email while waiting for your flight, but it was pretty damn close.
So if the Greeks are being good boys now, they still have a bit of a reputation to overcome.
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Pattycakes... very nationalist leanings I see. You can deny it, but it is still there.
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I am fully aware that I come out as a nationalist. This isn't the UN convention on security thought. It's not a popularity contest.
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10-01-2002 07:36
I don't remember anything happening during the '94 World Cup, do you?
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