08-01-2002 13:53									#1
	60 minutes goes McCarthyist Support Apolyton

quote: PROTOPAPAS: QUESTIONS ON THE CBS REPORT ON TERRORISM Questions are being raised by the Greek government over the ulterior motive of a news report on "terrorism in Greece" that was broadcast on the US private television station CBS today, according to statements made by Greek government spokesman Christos Protopapas. Mr. Protopapas stated that the television channel in question did not respect even the basic journalistic code of ethics saying characteristically that even though it had taken a long interview with Foreign Minister Giorgos Papandreou did not broadcast it. Mr. Protopapas stated that the report concluded by launching a strong attack on parliament president Apostolos Kaklamanis. One day before the visit of Prime Minister Kostas Simitis to the United States, the US television station CBS presents Greece as a terrorist "paradise". In the most important television program of the station and the country itself, called "60 Minutes", that was broadcast in the early morning hours of Monday, it was repeated that after 26 years of terrorist action and over 100 terrorist attacks by "17 November" there have been no arrests and no court trials of possible suspects. The report includes statements made by parliament president Apostolos Kaklamanis on whom it was stressed that he represents "the ultra-nationalist and anti-American" wing of the governing party. Mr. Kaklamanis characterized the allegations linking "17 November" with the Greek government as an insult for him personally and the Greek parliament.

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=242824


perhaps the most important part was when the CBS reporter directly asked the President of the Greek Parliament if he agrees with the actions of terrorists....


and a little bit of truth: there HAVE been arrests and trials for terrorism, just not for 17N. and yes, 17N has killed 22 people in the last 26 years. meanwhile ETA has killed over 800 in the last 30 years and OBL killed 4000 in a day...

	08-01-2002 14:12									#2
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Macedonian Press Agency? What have they got to do with Greece?

Interesting link though...

	08-01-2002 14:14									#3
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"Protopapas" ? Sorry, but lol....

Anyway, what do you expect from those clowns at the network "news" ?

	08-01-2002 14:22									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "Protopapas" ? Sorry, but lol....

taken literally it means "first priest"

quote: Anyway, what do you expect from those clowns at the network "news" ?

i dont know, they are watched by millions and that's all that matters....

	08-01-2002 15:05									#5
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My respect for 60 minutes had been shaken when I saw the movie "The Insider". They are really ruthless.

	08-01-2002 19:34									#6
	Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG and a little bit of truth: there HAVE been arrests and trials for terrorism, just not for 17N.

I think we have our answer for why 60 minutes asked thier question about government support for 17N. Next, you'll be complaining when someone mentions the historically poor security at Athens International.

PS Mark, most of you post looks like a rationalization for why the Greek government has been so lax in enforcing the law. Why is that?

	08-01-2002 20:00									#7
	Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I think we have our answer for why 60 minutes asked thier question about government support for 17N.

the US services have been activaly involved in the investigations for years. they have yet to come up with something concrete. perhaps the US is supporting 17N? perhaps it would not be considered an insult if a greek journalist asked Bush about it?

	08-01-2002 20:02									#8
	Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc PS Mark, most of you post looks like a rationalization for why the Greek government has been so lax in enforcing the law. Why is that?

when was the last time 60 minutes or Washington Post(which also loves to publish similar articles) made a report on ETA?

	08-01-2002 20:12									#9
	Re: Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG the US services have been activaly involved in the investigations for years.

Exactly a year ago, a 17 November hit man was injured while launching a rocket against the residence of German Ambassador Karl Heinz Kuhna. Blood was spotted near a shrub where the assailant hid to launch the rocket. More was found in the abandoned getaway car, along with strands of the attacker's hair. Then everything went into slow motion. U.S. officials claim it took four months for a Greek police crime lab to type the blood. And when it did, says the State Department report, the authorities "did not follow up aggressively, and made no arrest." - TIME EUROPE May 29, 2000 VOL. 155 NO. 21

Any questions about exactly who is being lax in thier investigations now?

quote: when was the last time 60 minutes or Washington Post(which also loves to publish similar articles) made a report on ETA?

We aren't talking about Spain here. If you want to talk about the ETA make another thread and stop trying to jack this one with irrelevancies.

	08-01-2002 20:18									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Any questions about exactly who is being lax in thier investigations now?

last time i checked, there is no DNA database of greek people....
i think there isnt one in the US either....

quote: We aren't talking about Spain here. If you want to talk about the ETA make another thread and stop trying to jack this one with irrelevancies.

actually, it's extremely rellevant

	08-01-2002 20:44									#11
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This November whatever group is pretty much of a mystery; also it only hits very rarely, and has not a larger sympathizer field around it (unlike say the RAF). As the lack of success is evenly distributed among PASOK and ND governments, I find the question about state support a bit silly.

Considering that in the case of the Unabomber, what 20 years passed without arrest or even serious clue, should one assume that there were overwhelming sympathies for him in the US Congress ?

	08-01-2002 21:11									#12
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I wonder if a government can sue for slander? I think they should.

	08-01-2002 21:37									#13
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by MarkG last time i checked, there is no DNA database of greek people....

And the last time I checked it was standard police procedure to actually type physical evidence that is found at a crime scene. Maybe it is different in Greece though.

quote: actually, it's extremely rellevant

Explain?

	08-01-2002 21:51									#14
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Basically he's saying that Greece's inability to catch anyone from N17 is no more an indication of Greek governemental sponsorship than Spain's inability to stop the ETA (thought they do catch and or kill members of the ETA).

It's not beyond possibility that a terrorist organization managed to operate with total secrecy and professionalism. Maybe N17's just that good.

Heck, with US domestic terrorist groups, it's generally been pure luck that they've been caught. McVey was caught speeding and the police became suspicious later. When the FALN was caught in Evanston, IL, it was completely accidental. The Unibomber was only caught because his brother turned the FBI spotlight onto him. More often than not, it was the terrorists own mistakes that brought their attention to the government. A professional terrorist group could, presumably, stay under the radar.

	08-01-2002 21:56									#15
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 60 minutes goes McCarthyist Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc And the last time I checked it was standard police procedure to actually type physical evidence that is found at a crime scene. Maybe it is different in Greece though.

so there was a delay in the investigations regarding the blood that was found. they only way this information can be used though, is if there is an actual suspect with more evidence first. such a thing doesnt exist

quote: Explain?

when every 4-5 months a major media in the US is making a report about a terrorist organization that has killed 22 people in 27 years, it would be interesting to know how many reports are published for other organizations which have killed hundreds or thousands...
i would be also thrilled if you could find such a report on ETA that went on air 2 days before an official visit of the prime minister of Spain in the US....

	08-01-2002 22:02									#16
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Actually it is very well known that Greece is very lax in dealing with terrorist groups to the chagrin of Western European states and the US. And yes, it is something of a 'terrorist paradise' in Europe. It ain't slander if it is the truth, che!

	08-01-2002 22:06									#17
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exactly chegitz

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Spain's inability to stop the ETA (thought they do catch and or kill members of the ETA)

of course is a significanty larger organization. the general belief about 17N is that it has less than 10 members

	08-01-2002 22:08									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Roland As the lack of success is evenly distributed among PASOK and ND governments, I find the question about state support a bit silly.

What I find silly is the fact that Greece has a population of 10,623,835, less than that of New York State. They have a police force of approx. 50k. And according to a former Greek official they know that the suspects circulate within a neighborhood a quarter of the size of Central Park. And still according to MarkG thier have been no arrests in almost 3 decades.

	08-01-2002 22:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It ain't slander if it is the truth, che!

It is in Britain.

	08-01-2002 22:09									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG exactly chegitz of course is a significanty larger organization. the general belief about 17N is that it has less than 10 members

Reminds of the BBA, which was also supposed to have 4-10 members.

LOL if it weren't so sad...

	08-01-2002 22:13									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Actually it is very well known that Greece is very lax in dealing with terrorist groups to the chagrin of Western European states and the US. And yes, it is something of a 'terrorist paradise' in Europe. It ain't slander if it is the truth, che!

the US has been lax with OBL as well. you could have goten him years ago and decided to not do it. see the results now....

	08-01-2002 22:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc And according to a former Greek official they know that the suspects circulate within a neighborhood a quarter of the size of Central Park.

let's bomb it then! we'll surely get them!

	08-01-2002 22:25									#23
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It is in Britain.

Point taken. Glad we ain't there :whew:

quote: the US has been lax with OBL as well. you could have goten him years ago and decided to not do it. see the results now....

OBL doesn't live in the US.

Your choice to be lax with terrorists that live in your own borders, but a lot of the outside world knows about this.

	08-01-2002 22:33									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui OBL doesn't live in the US.

How do you know ?

	08-01-2002 22:39									#25
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I'm Muslim... he would have contacted me through the secret burn on my ar... ooops!

Hey Roland, we are cross forum posting (Counterglow)!

	08-01-2002 22:44									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'm Muslim... he would have contacted me through the secret burn on my ar... ooops!

You mean, every time a muslim moves to the US, this causes millions of ass burns ?

	08-01-2002 22:48									#27
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I was going to say arm, but you and your dirty mind strike again!

	08-01-2002 22:56									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG let's bomb it then! we'll surely get them!

Ouch!
Good point!

	08-01-2002 23:18									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I should also point that this broadcasting took place two days before the official visit of the Greek Prime Minister to the US.

This also points out the usefulness that such slander has for the US policy.

It is used as a means to pressure the Greek government into concessions in other, unrelated, matters (such as Greece's objections to the current form of the European rapid Reaction Force in relation with the close US ally Turkey).

The build up of a propaganda that is then used to pressure a small country is not something new. The US has been doing it for years.

	08-01-2002 23:44									#30
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Pattycakes does realize that the US doesn't own CBS, right?