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JamesJKirk
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Dixon, CA USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:17
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The Commonwealth Cabinet issued a statement today expressed concern over Russia's new position on the Orthodox minority in the Ottoman Empire. The cabinet wished to remind Russia that religious minorities have enjoyed legal protection in the Ottoman Empire for over 50 years, and that it's enlightened Sultan may be moving Turkey on the path to more representative government.
If Russia finds these arguments to be not persuasive enough, then the British Commonwealth supports Russia wholeheartedly. So much so, that we hope that Russia will remember to give a healthy donation to the Commonwealth on behalf of its citizens in the Hellenic Federation. Likewise, as Britain seeks to make sure of the safety and freedom of its Protestant bretheren, we are sure that Russia wouldn't mind furnishing an expense fund to Britain to provide that Protestants in Russian Germany, Sweden, Finland and the Baltics are well cared for. Also Britain urges Russia to pay France and Italy to ensure that Catholics aren't persecuted in Poland or Austria. Naturally Britian will provide funds to France and Italy because of the Catholics in British Iberia, but on the condition France pays off Britain for its Huguenout population. Obviously Britian will pay the Ottomans for having Muslims in Egypt as well, and hopes Russia will do the same for its Muslims in the Caucausus.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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Answering to the Russian declaration regarding their religious concern, the Ottoman Government wishes to make a few points:
1) as our British Friends reminded every Nation, the Ottoman Empire has been protecting his religious minorities for a long time now, and every Ottoman citizen is free to practice his religion, as long as this doesn't turn into political reunions!!
2) if the religious minorities are a problem for Russia, the Ottoman Empire would be glad to accept all the unwanted Muslims currently living in the Russian Empire (in other words, feel free to give me any engineer you want me to join to my cities...  )
3) as the Commonwealth Cabinet so accurately stated, every european Nation has it's share of religious minorities, and the Ottoman Government thanks the Czar for bringing up the subject BEFORE it's a problem anywhere. So we propose a Synod to take place near Bursa, in the city of Iznik (ancient Nicea  ) to discuss the fate of the religious minorities and work towards religious tolerance.
On another subject, the merchants and traders from the coastal towns of the Marmara Sea reports that the Italian sailors are well-behaved customers and wishes to congratulate the Italian Navy for a rarely seen among sailors discipline! The only worry being that a "baby-boom" might be expected in 9 month... 
The Ottoman Government wishes to remind all foreign Navies that, as stated in the January 1901 Declaration, we would like to be informed BEFORE any foreign military ship cross the Dardanelles, so that our fishermen aren't too frightened at the view of your impressive battleships. Of course, this doesn't apply to the civilian freighters...
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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To Case: no problem!!
And now, a bit OOC:
quote:
Originally posted by The ANZAC
Really? Then I guess the Bulgarian Massacre of the 1870's and the recent Armenian massacre at the turn of the century were just figments of my imagination  
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1) About the Bulgarian massacre, I don't know much about the period, but from what I found on it, it seems it was more a repression against rebels trying to get independence than a religious matter!!
2) I found this (you can check on http://www.bulgaria.com/history/bulgaria/revival.html ) and it seems that christians were allowed to practice their religion in the Ottoman Empire, and even to have their own religious authorities:
"The Bulgarian society reacted sharply to the nationalistic ambitions of the patriarchal in Constantinople. The local communities led a stubborn struggle against the Greek bishops' presence in the Bulgarian bishoprics. Meanwhile a network of Bulgarian elementary and secondary schools was set up. The Bulgarian initial demands boiled down to requests for the replacement of the Greek bishops with Bulgarian ones and for the wide-spread use of the Bulgarian language in church service. The patriarchal in Constantinople was relentless which made the Bulgarians claim full independence of the Bulgarian church immediately after the Crimean War in 1858. Between 1856-1860 the Greek bishops were expelled from everywhere. A national center took shape around the Bulgarian community in Constantinople, attracting eminent writers and public figures. That center took up the leadership of church independence struggle. On 3 April 1860, during Easter Sunday service in Constantinople, the Bulgarian bishop Illusion of Makariopol expressed the will of the whole Bulgarian people by solemnly proclaiming the separation of the Bulgarian church from the patriarchal in Constantinople. The day commemorating the Resurrection of Jesus Christ coincided with the resuscitation of the Bulgarian people. However, that unilateral act of the Bulgarians was not sanctioned either by the see of Constantinople or by the Turkish government. Russia, in her capacity as patron of the Orthodox peoples within the boundaries of the Muslim empire - a right obtained as a result of her victories over the Turks, did not approve of it either. The struggle continued for another ten years. It was only when the Catholic propaganda in the Bulgarian lands became disturbingly successful that Russia changed her attitude and, eventually, forced Turkey to recognize de jure the situation which had existed de facto. In 1870 a firman of the sultan decreed the establishment of an autonomous Bulgarian church institution - the Bulgarian exarchate. All lands inhabited by Bulgarians in Moesia, Thrace, Dobrudja and a large part of Macedonia came under its jurisdiction. "
3) And last: the Armenian Genocide occured in 1915, so... don't hold against the Ottoman Empire something that might only happen (if it does!!) in 11 years...
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The ANZAC
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The Rodina!
Jan 2000
time: 00:17
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More OOC/Helping my case
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
3) And last: the Armenian Genocide occured in 1915, so... don't hold against the Ottoman Empire something that might only happen (if it does!!) in 11 years... |
OK I read this in encarta, but I also found this on the net at http://www.armenian-genocide.org/en...dia/ottoman.htm
"In the face of international condemnation, and despite changes in government, the Hamidian policies were applied with regularity over the course of the next thirty years. In a series of genocidal massacres repeated in 1895-1896, 1909, 1915-1918, and 1920-1922, the Armenian population of Turkey was annihilated. The Armenian, also called Hamidian, massacres of 1894-1896 affected all of historic Armenia and Constantinople. The 1909 or Adana massacre devastated Cilicia. The combined deportations and massacres during World War I acquired the dimensions of total genocide and was implemented by the Young Turks who had removed Abdul-Hamid from the throne in 1909. The atrocities between 1920-1922 were committed by the Nationalist Turks who seized power in the Anatolian hinterland in the final years of the Ottoman Empire and created the Turkish Republic."
Also this is in your article:
quote:
Russia, in her capacity as patron of the Orthodox peoples within the boundaries of the Muslim empire - a right obtained as a result of her victories over the Turks |
So it was generally accepted for Russia to control the Orthodox population in Turkish lands.
again:
quote:
...Russia changed her attitude and, eventually, forced Turkey to recognize de jure the situation which had existed de facto. |
So the Ottomans DID do it but only at the pushing of the Russians.
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winterfritz
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I'm sailing this thing to Mexico
Jan 2002
time: 05:17
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quote:
France: you only are not going to dictate to Great Russia what or what not her status is with the Ottoman Empire. |
Au contraire. Though France has no formal pact or alliance with Turkey, French industrialists do have important trade interests vested in the Ottoman Empire. Also, our government has enjoyed a cordial and friendly relationship with the Turkish leaders for many years. So do not think we will tolerate your attempts to infringe on the sovereignty of the Ottoman state. We have every right to come to the defence of our Turkish friends in the face of Russian imperialistic aggression.
quote:
It is funny how Britain and France seem to denounce Russia for her acknowledged Orthodox stance, yet seem to be putting their tentacles of influence over Turkish policies |
France and Britain have nothing but the best intentions towards the Ottoman Empire; it is the Russians, rather, who seek to control its member peoples, as can be seen by reading through the statements of the Russian government:
quote:
Russia would like to have some funding from Turkey to support Orthodox relief efforts to Orthodox Christians everywhere. Or which would be better, more influence over Orthdox subjects of the Ottoman Empire.
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quote:
...Russia to control the Orthodox population in Turkish lands.
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quote:
Do you have alliances with Britain and/or France? If so, back out of these agreements before they become your obituaries.
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France and Britain, in contrast, have only expressed concern at these Russian attempts to infringe on Turkish sovereignty. The Orthodox Christian minority in question is a part of the Ottoman nation and subject to Ottoman authority. Without evidence that this minority is being persecuted - and France has noticed that Russia has avoided trying to refute our arguments that this minority is indeed undergoing no repression now or in the recent past - Russia has no right to ask for influence over the subjects of another sovereign nation. Such a request is an affront to Turkey's status as an independent power in its own right and would reduce it to the status of a Russian semi-colony.
Your status as protector of the Orthodox faith - though remaining unacknowledged by the present French administration, as it is largely a dead letter in the modern day international situation - does not even have any relevance to the present situation, because as we have said, there is no evidence that the Orthodox Christian minority in the Ottoman Empire has undergone persecution now or under the most recent administration.
France also deplores Russia's aggressive and unfounded claims in the face of our rational argument. It saddens us to see that there are still European leaders who persist in sabre-rattling rather than trying to solve problems in a civilized and logical fashion.
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28-06-2002 18:06
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