21-01-2002 21:02									#1
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Dutch television made a documentary about the events that took place in Conyers in the US.

In short: there was breakout of syfilis in a group of "young, white, middleclass teenagers" that "shocked America" some years ago.

This outbreak exposed the lives the teenagers in that town lived. And it was shocking indeed. Girls on average were losing their virginity at age 13/14, and ended up having a lot of sex with a lot of different partners, often many years older than they were. Guys were no better (but people tend to care less about sexual behaviour of guys than of girls). A lot of the kids ended up severely messed up, and among the guys there were a number potential Columbine-like crazies.

The worst part is, after the syfilis outbreak and the international attention it recieved, little has changed. On top of that, Conyers isn't the only community this happends in. Appaling statistics show that alcohol and drug use, teenage pregnancy rates, and STD infection rates in the US are the highest in the western world.

When I stayed in the US for two months I noticed some of this too, though I thought it was an isolated case. Sadly I was wrong. The girls I got to know when I was there, about 5 or 6, have all used drugs, have all lost their virginity between the ages of 13 and 15, and had all at least 18 sexual partners. One of them even had a 2 year old baby (half black, half white), and she was younger than me. As I said, I believed this group of girls (who were quite nice persons btw) to be an isolated case of people who just had the wrong things happen to them. I never realised that this is widespread from coast to coast.

What happened that caused all this? The counselers that were interviewed in the documentary mostly blamed the parents for what happened.

Does someone here have some additional insights in life in teenage America? I've only been there a couple of times, and in total spend about 3 months there, so I've only seen the top of the iceberg. How bad is it really? How widespread are potential Conyer and Columbine tradegies? How are things in teenage America really?

	21-01-2002 21:08									#2
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At my high school it doesn't seem to be THAT bad, but that might be because of good birth control, etc. Columbines are not that frequent as Euros seem to think. Sadly, I think US culture/music promotes girls to act/look like sluts.

	21-01-2002 21:09									#3
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You mean as compared to the Dutch and their worldly ways?

	21-01-2002 21:11									#4
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Where do you get all those amusing pictures, Sloww?

	21-01-2002 21:14									#5
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I just do a Google search on whatever the referenced post brings to mind.

	21-01-2002 21:14									#6
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If I were getting some of that promiscuous teenaged action, I would say that it was an APPEALING picture. But since I don't, I have to say its a terrible bane on our society.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 21-01-2002 at 21:32

	21-01-2002 21:15									#7
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It partially depends on how you're defining "drug use." I'd estimate that at least a third of the people at my high school smoked pot on an irregular basis, and perhaps as high as two-thirds of the population. About that many were also casual drinkers. So, yeah, that's a lot of drug useage.

The cocaine and heroin users, on the other hand, were a definite minority. When the "heroin ring" at my school was busted during my senior year, the dealer spilled his guts; all told, only about five or six people were carted off from the affair, a definite minority in a school with 1600 people in it. From this affair, I'd estimate that there were extremely few hard core drug users at my school.

As for sex, it seemed to be the typical deal of guys wanting some and girls playing hard to get. This meant that you'd get your **** teased for at least six months, and possibly a lot longer, before you got any. Doing the math, that's not very much casual sex for a seven year junior-high and high school career, at least it's a lot less than the amount you're describing.

	21-01-2002 21:15									#8
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Well, this "picture" can't be applied to all american teenagers, but I believe that the majority can be in this situation.

I believe that most parents just aren't mature enough to give the right amount of discipline into their kids, so they don't give any at all. This is the outcome of "Do what you want to do, it's your life anyway" way of thinking. There's no black or white to them. Everything is "grey". I bet most of them don't have any life goals, or have unrealistic ones.

And you wonder why on the other side of the "field" are those american religious fanatics?

Of course, the British teenagers aren't that different either...

	21-01-2002 21:19									#9
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quote: I believe that most parents just aren't mature enough to give the right amount of discipline into their kids, so they don't give any at all. This is the outcome of "Do what you want to do, it's your life anyway" way of thinking. There's no black or white to them. Everything is "grey". I bet most of them don't have any life goals, or have unrealistic ones.

Thats the crux of the problem.
But as for life goals, most people I know (and im in the Advanced, "Smart people" classes) don't know what they want to do yet.

	21-01-2002 21:24									#10
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quote: You mean as compared to the Dutch and their worldly ways?

dutch teens have less sex, use less drugs, drink less alcohol, get fewer babies, and have less stds. now you

quote: I'd estimate that at least a third of the people at my high school smoked pot on an irregular basis, and perhaps as high as two-thirds of the population.

In Holland among teens it's only 1 in 20.

quote: Well, this "picture" can't be applied to all american teenagers.

Of course not. Thank God.

quote: I believe that most parents just aren't mature enough to give the right amount of discipline into their kids, so they don't give any at all. This is the outcome of "Do what you want to do, it's your life anyway" way of thinking. There's no black or white to them. Everything is "grey". I bet most of them don't have any life goals, or have unrealistic ones.

Why would this be different in, say, Europe or Canada?

	21-01-2002 21:35									#11
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my high school is similiar

pretty much everybody has slept with everybody else so I would say that most have slept with far more than 18 people

girls lost thier virginity 12-14 (most had 18+ partners by partway through 9th)

STD's are rampant (and now I know that at least one guy who has slept with half the girls between 13-21 has full blown aids)

and about (50%, might be higher now) got pregnant through highschool

most (80-90%) after/durring highschool become prostitutes and/or strippers and/or drug deallers

95+% alcohol use

75+% pot use (probably a lot higher than this)

40% crack and the like

(and I probably do not know half of it, it has gotten a lot worse since I went there almost 4 years ago (I know from younger siblings that the worse behavior which use to start in 10/11 when I was there now starts in 8/9))

and I agree that the lack of life goals is huge

Jon Miller

	21-01-2002 21:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Why would this be different in, say, Europe or Canada?

I'm sorry, could you please rephrase?

	21-01-2002 21:38									#13
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Aren't these "teenagers are out of control" threads supposed to be cleared out after 40 years or so?

	21-01-2002 21:39									#14
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I should say a lack of life goals

or the goal being to become a prostitute\drugdealer\stripper (at age 10- for some)

Jon Miller
(it is a small town school)

	21-01-2002 21:40									#15
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Aren't these "teenagers are out of control" threads supposed to be cleared out after 40 years or so?

They've been appearing since Aristotle's(sp) time, IIRC. I don't see a reason for clearing them out now.

	21-01-2002 21:47									#16
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quote: I'm sorry, could you please rephrase?

Of course, I'm sorry. You said that parents in the US aren't mature enough, and that they don't have realistic life goals. The question I asked is why that is different in Canada or Europe? Are parents and people really that different, and if so, what caused this?

quote: my high school is similiar

My God...those stats you give are really terrible.

I have slept with 3 girls, as has my closest friend. This is pretty much the average for people who are 19 years old. Recent studies show that people who graduate from college (around age 22) on average have slept with 6 people. Only 6! Judging by these figures in the US it would be double if not triple.

	21-01-2002 21:52									#17
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Aren't these "teenagers are out of control" threads supposed to be cleared out after 40 years or so?

I think (I could be wrong) that the 60s were about revolution

now the revolution is already past

this is not about rebellion, this is about (large groups of) people shitting away their lives for no reason or prupose

I know extreme drug users in college and, while I don't think it is the best, far more are surviving (I know some though that have done stuff like go permantently on bad trips)

there is a fundamental lack in a lot of the US's youth

and maybe it has always been there but I would argue that it has gotten younger (I know that in my community, I saw the majority of those older than me behaving as has been described in 11/12, while those my age the majority behaved in the described manner in 10/11 (with good numbers doing so in 8/9), and in those a few years younger-current I see the large majority doing so in 8/9)

and I think it is the age that parents should do something

Jon Miller

	21-01-2002 22:06									#18
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quote: In Holland among teens it's only 1 in 20.

Are you sure? At least, among the people I know, much more than 5 % have smoked pot at some time. One third is more likely IMO.

	21-01-2002 22:15									#19
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1 in 20 ? That looks very implausible.

Anyway, teenagers are experimenting with sex and drugs. Excessive ? Well, maybe. But there may also be an element of exaggeration. Much worse in the US ? I doubt it if you compare cross sections of the entire society.

	21-01-2002 22:16									#20
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I was only commenting on the irony. Every generation turns on its teenagers. I still remember the diatribes against Generation X.

Yes, I do think the generation has some problems. Part of that is because, getting older, I am beginning to become an old fart. However, like nearly every generation that has been aucces of being out of control, they have some serious issues of alienation to deal with.

Our society is soul deadening. It is a white-bread, McDonalds, corporate created, instant culture. The real question isn't why are our teenagers crazy. The real question is why everyone else isn't either.

	21-01-2002 22:20									#21
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"The real question is why everyone else isn't either."

Where was that "In a sick world, normality is insanity" (or so) quote from ? Just can't remember....

	21-01-2002 22:32									#22
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its not too bad in my school... certainly not what you describe

of course theres always going to be those all out sluts who screw anything with a pulse... but the vast majority of girls don't lose virginity until they're over 16... although i'm noticing that is changing for the worse...

alcohol on the other hand is a huge problem here.... this is litterally a town of future alcoholics... i'd say close to 90% are casual drinkers and about 60% regularly (every weekend) and 20% have real drinking problems (almost every day)

pot isn't too bad, sure theres a group of druggies who are always stoned or something, i'd say around 35% have tried it, but maybe 10% regurally smoke it....

hard drugs are confined to about 5%

	21-01-2002 22:37									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Great its not too bad in my school... certainly not what you describe of course theres always going to be those all out sluts who screw anything with a pulse... but the vast majority of girls don't lose virginity until they're over 16... although i'm noticing that is changing for the worse... alcohol on the other hand is a huge problem here.... this is litterally a town of future alcoholics... i'd say close to 90% are casual drinkers and about 60% regularly (every weekend) and 20% have real drinking problems (almost every day) pot isn't too bad, sure theres a group of druggies who are always stoned or something, i'd say around 35% have tried it, but maybe 10% regurally smoke it.... hard drugs are confined to about 5%

Others I know have highschools similiar to what you describe.

So I know that mine is particularly bad.

So it is only some highschools that turn out crap.

Jon Miller

	21-01-2002 22:39									#24
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Anyone ever here the phrase "one bad apple spoils the barrel"? Maybe that's the problem. It seems that in the American youth pop culture "cool" is everything.

	21-01-2002 22:40									#25
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rectification: 1 in 20 between the ages of 12 and 16 have used drugs.

among college students (18-22) it's 3 in 10.

	21-01-2002 22:43									#26
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At the HighSchool I went to, I'd say that 2 thirds of the kids there did drugs. (from the people I knew, both soft and hard - whatever they could get) It's probably more like 80% of the kids if you include cigarettes and alcohol, though. Sex didn't seem to be a big thing... but I wasn't very involved in the social scene, so I probably wouldn't know if it was.

I have a hard time believing that this isn't the case (more or less) in any modern city.

	21-01-2002 22:45									#27
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Yes, that seems more likely. But why do you think that's a bad thing ( the 3/10 number, I mean)? I'd say that trying marijuana is nothing shameful.

	21-01-2002 22:46									#28
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To be fair, the documentary you saw was what we call "sensationalist piece". Certain areas of the country with certain groups of people tend to do certain stupid things.

Sex and drug use (and STDs) aren't quite as rampant as you think they are, but they are a problem (I disagree on some drugs, though )

	21-01-2002 22:55									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller my high school is similiar

where are u from?

	21-01-2002 22:59									#30
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Actually, the documentary he saw sounds like a Frontline piece, "The Lost Children of Rockdale County," I saw on the same subject a few years ago. Probably just translated into Dutch. Frontline's a rather well respected PBS TV news program.