24-01-2002 17:35									#1
	The FIR of Athens has been violated once again by the Turkish airforce... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

45 Turkish aircrafts violated the FIR of Athens yesterday.

Before been intercepted by the Greek aircrafts which took off in 5 minutes (the best readiness in NATO) 6 violations of the national air space of Greece and 15 violations of air traffic regulations got recorded.

For the record Turkish airforce has been violating the air space of Greece since 1981 quite frequently up to few dozens per day in crucial periods.

Resently they even "demanded" from Greek aircrafts flying above Limnos (a Greek island within the national air space of Greece) to provide them with their flight schedules!!!

	24-01-2002 17:42									#2
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Have they given an official explanation ?

	24-01-2002 17:47									#3
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Have they given an official explanation ?

For violating our air space for the past 20 years?

I don't know this time but they usually they give something stupid and false like that we are violating their air space but nothing like this has ever been recorded or no explanation at all.

	24-01-2002 19:03									#4
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I wonder if we would get any interesting other viewpoints if there were any turks in this forum.

	24-01-2002 19:21									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Thue I wonder if we would get any interesting other viewpoints if there were any turks in this forum.

Sounds like you haven't noticed the Turkish threads against Greece, Cyprus, Syria, Armenia, their expansionist policy to the west and the east, the massacre of the Kurds or the rediculus threads against the Russians and many more.

If you can find any proven violation of the Turkish air space from Greek aircrafts please tell me where to find them because I would be very interested.

	24-01-2002 19:46									#6
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Go and kick their ass!
One of my friend is son of armenians, and he hates Turks to death!

There must be some kind of official explanation,
Why did they do this kinds of things?

	24-01-2002 19:51									#7
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It's impossible for a Greek to see both sides of an argument - they've all lost their marbles.

	24-01-2002 20:16									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's It's impossible for a Greek to see both sides of an argument - they've all lost their marbles.

Either you violate someone's air space or not.
There is only one point of view on this, not two.

However, if you are searching for the reasons behind it you can find it to the Turkish foreign & domestic policy ruled by a militaristic institution.

Simply Greece after the Minor Asia war and their defeat they have given up any claims against Turkey. In the contrary Turkey has increased their demand against Greece. If you can find anything that negates this fact please presend me with facts.

	24-01-2002 20:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kublai-Khan There must be some kind of official explanation, Why did they do this kinds of things?

They are testing our defense and exercise pressures to the Greek goverment. At list that must be their thoughs but they are the only ones to know the true cause.

	24-01-2002 20:56									#10
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Turks have big shadows in their policies.
They would like to be in europa zone, but they haven't read enough or haven't very well understood the Human Right Declaration.

They promised some economical counter-strike after French gouvernment acknowledged the Armenians Genocide.

I don't know what they have done ...

	24-01-2002 21:29									#11
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It took a lot of political guts for the French to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

It is no mistake that France is considered the mother - country of human rights and it lives up to its name

	24-01-2002 21:32									#12
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It is no mistake that France is considered the mother - country of human rights and it lives up to its name

Way too easy.

	24-01-2002 21:33									#13
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Ah, here is Pakitis, the biggest nationalist on this board.

	24-01-2002 21:35									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Ah, here is Pakitis, the biggest nationalist on this board.

I'm not american or british to be nationalist. I don't only care about my country like you do but about Europe.

Stop trolling, you are too easy.


edit: you just hate it when something good is spoken about France because you are too egotistical to like that country. It is an inferiority complex you people have and must break it.

France is far better than you. (but then again it's Dinodoc and Stewie I'm talking to, so forget it, especes d'ordures )

	24-01-2002 22:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It took a lot of political guts for the French to recognize the Armenian Genocide. It is no mistake that France is considered the mother - country of human rights and it lives up to its name

I don't care why the gouvernment do it, they did it and it's a good thing.

Yes, it was french philosophers who think about the human right declaration. We don't make only cheese and wine, you know.

	24-01-2002 22:41									#16
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quote: The FIR of Athens has been violated once again by the Turkish airforce...

They're raping Greek trees now?

Well, they're certainly aggressive, if a little confused.

	24-01-2002 22:45									#17
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FIR= (episis) oh elato, oh elato m'areseis pos m'areseis

	24-01-2002 22:46									#18
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Turkey's airforce will continue to do what it wants. It neeeds to fly over Greek Islands because Greece Owns(Well actually illegaly occupies) so many islands in the Aegean. It'd be almost impossible to not fly over Greek Islands when flying in the Aegean, which is a natural place for Turkey to fly. Besides, those Islands are really Turkey's Greece just stole them, so Turkey can fly there if it wants.

And stop blabbing on about made up genocides.

	24-01-2002 22:51									#19
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paiktis, get today's "Pontiki"
it has two (US made) maps of Greece's sea borders if they are set on 6 or 12 miles. really interesting....

	24-01-2002 23:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It took a lot of political guts for the French to recognize the Armenian Genocide. It is no mistake that France is considered the mother - country of human rights and it lives up to its name

Yes, they handled their revolution oh so well. And they were really concerned about human rights in Africa and Southeast Asia. And doing business with the Iraqi military was a real step forward in human rights.



The French are humane when it suites them. Just like every other country.

	24-01-2002 23:28									#21
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quote: Go and kick their ass! One of my friend is son of armenians, and he hates Turks to death!

That is quite normal considering that the turks massacred 1 million of armenian civilian man women and children not so long ago.

quote: Turkey's airforce will continue to do what it wants.

No. It must respect the international laws and the frontiers with Greece. And it must do so of its own free will, not because we make her do it.

quote: It neeeds to fly over Greek Islands because Greece Owns(Well actually illegaly occupies) so many islands in the Aegean.

These islands have had greek populations for millenia. And they are recognised from Turkey as Greek for 200 years from the Convention of Lozane which clearly dictates the borders of each country.

Greeks lived for Millenia in Constantinople and Asia Minor too but they were also massacred by the Turks (2 millions of civilians massacred in total in the 20th century by Turkey)

Turkey shall abandon its aspirations for war and expansion. The US should not back her up just because she needs her as an ally.
Support bastard regimes, you are a bastard regime.

quote: It'd be almost impossible to not fly over Greek Islands when flying in the Aegean, which is a natural place for Turkey to fly.

It is not natural to try to fly inside another country's territory. Maybe if they were a democracy, the turks would understand the meaning of law.


Sprayber, the French lost business and investements in Turkey by their bold deed of recognizing the Armenian Genocide by the Turks. They did it only out of respect to truth and the humanitarian principles which they first founded.


MarkG, yeah I know...

	24-01-2002 23:35									#22
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I was in Chalkis (you know, a city from civ2 ) today and jet fighters were constantly passing above us. Tanagra airbase was working overtime, as it seems.

People around here perhaps don't understand how many millions of Euros does this thing cost to both sides, in both fuel, maintenance and ageing of the aircrafts. In addition, the stress inflicted on the pilots and planes has cost quite a few lives in plane crashes (although our planes do not crash during interception, unlike the turkish ones).

	25-01-2002 01:14									#23
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Axi that is stupid



Now if you shoot down a turkish F-16 or F-15 (not that I think you could ) Then a war would cost you tens of Billions of Euro's! So stop complaining about a little spent fuel, here and there



War=Greece will lose.

	25-01-2002 01:27									#24
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Btw...I should also add it is not just USA which support are turkish fiends



Germany also provides them with plentyful leapords Tanks.

	25-01-2002 01:28									#25
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory So stop complaining about a little spent fuel, here and there

We will complain since Turkey keeps requiring us to spend fuel in order to chase back to their holes its louzy pilots who VIOLATE OUR AIRSPACE (=that's the point of it all faded glory).


And Axi didn't say we shot a plane down. We can do it very easily but we don't use weapons as long as they don't use weapons.

The turks fall to the sea and get killed by themselves because they can't manouvre their planes right. They lose control during the dogfights and they crash.

They should train better or thay can drop dead for all I care.

Turkey must stop violated air borders, it's as simple as that. And that's the point.

	25-01-2002 01:38									#26
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No offense Paiky.....but Turkey has a couple thousand AMRAAM's and they will blast you and your airforce from150 miles out


No I didnt imply that greece shot/or should shoot down a plane. Im just saying...your angry about using some jet fuel (understandable). But if you get in a war. You will be paying alot bigger price then a few hundred pounds of jet fuel .


The simple answer is to lock them with your HAWK SAM's we gave you, and let them know there being watched/threatened.

	25-01-2002 01:38									#27
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior after French gouvernment acknowledged the Armenians Genocide.

quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Yes, it was french philosophers who think about the human right declaration. We don't make only cheese and wine, you know.

I know That's why I consider the French one of the most important nations in history.

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Turkey's airforce will continue to do what it wants. It neeeds to fly over Greek Islands because Greece Owns(Well actually illegaly occupies) so many islands in the Aegean. It'd be almost impossible to not fly over Greek Islands when flying in the Aegean, which is a natural place for Turkey to fly. Besides, those Islands are really Turkey's Greece just stole them, so Turkey can fly there if it wants.

What a pathetic and unhistorical point of view...

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi And stop blabbing on about made up genocides.

I don't think he can.
1.5-2 million Armenians and 1-2 millions Greeks massacred during the 20th century is not an easy thing to forget.
And who are to controvert so easily the death of millions of civilians?

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Yes, they handled their revolution oh so well. And they were really concerned about human rights in Africa and Southeast Asia. And doing business with the Iraqi military was a real step forward in human rights. The French are humane when it suites them. Just like every other country.

Well, those achivements were made by French intellectuals and not from the French government.
Governments are usually practicing their interests with no morality irregardless nationality.

quote: Originally posted by faded glory Now if you shoot down a turkish F-16 or F-15 (not that I think you could ) Then a war would cost you tens of Billions of Euro's! So stop complaining about a little spent fuel, here and there

F-15? Turkey does not own F-15.
Well, if you can beat them then we can too since our pilots are better than yours. Along with the Israeli the best in the world.
FYI, my brother served for a period (1996) in a radar base and the percentages where 92% Greek intercepts opposite to only 8% of Turkish intercepts. That means that in a possible conflict Greece will lose an 8% of their interceptors and Turkey their 92%.
Besides Israeli pilots who trained a great deal of Turkish pilots they said that their level is very low.
Seems to me that the Turkish airforce is laughable.

	25-01-2002 01:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory No offense Paiky.....but Turkey has a couple thousand AMRAAM's and they will blast you and your airforce from150 miles out

Well, we have AMRAAMs too and I bet we can use them better.

Saddam, try to read some history and get updated regarding the Greek and Turkish armory because you got some things wrong

	25-01-2002 01:44									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Well, if you can beat them then we can too since our pilots are better than yours. Along with the Israeli the best in the world.

Ha!
What can your pilots do? Turn on and off the simulator? Pfffff.

	25-01-2002 01:49									#30
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Key, it doesnt take a goo pilot to use a AAMRAM

quote: Seems to me that the Turkish airforce is laughable.

Thats a bold statement. Considering war hasnt broke out in awhile. Turkey has found new friends, and her friends have shown her how to fight a war a bit better. Her friends also gave her tools.


F-15's are to be acquired bye the Turkish Airforce sometime in 2004

quote: after French gouvernment acknowledged the Armenians Genocide.

Ahh......Ze French. The masters of Genocide and torture. The makers of the Guilatine, the Pillagers of North Africa, The guys who took great joy in sending people to Guiyana, the one's who tied together the Iraqi air defense network, The great people who harbored murderers like Ira Einhorn for many years