12-02-2002 01:39									#151
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Paiktis: Can I have some of what you're smoking? Looks like good stuff...

Stop the insulting though, it doesn't suit you.

	12-02-2002 01:56									#152
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ouais, je suis completement d'accord avec toi. Peut-etre je me sens un peu plus libre a jetter ce gens de commentaires car j'allais a l'ecole europeene. On ete tous ensemble (presque tous les pays membres de l'UE) donc on avais pas vraimeant de difficulte a faire des blagues l'un a l'autre. Et J'aime Belgique de tous mon ame. C'est mon pays presque ou meme exactement comme la Grece.
Et Grece est veritablement plus xenophobe que la France ou Belgique ou Holland Je crois. Parc'que on a moins de tempts a vivre ensemble avec les gens d'autre pays comme ceux d l'Albanie. Vraix

quote: Quand au fait que les gens d'Europe du Nord se voit supérieur aux autres même inconsciemment , c'est pas vraiment faux. Il faut dire qu'au début du siècle, les européens se considéraient comme le summum de la culture et considéré la race blanche comme supérieur aux autres.

C'est ce que Je pense aussi.

quote: Le problème est que personne aime admettre qu'il est raciste ou xénophobe. C'était évident que tu allais recevoir des mails enflammés ... Surtout en généralisant à outrance.

Ouais, mais il faut comme meme le dire

quote: Maintenant cette mentalité à grandement diminué. Car l’Europe n’est plus la super puissance d’antant Maintenant c’est les USA !

Que Dieu nous aide tous

	12-02-2002 02:03									#153
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Final conclusions: stop judging me and throwing slander and just stop and think about what I've said.

Only a handful of people had the nerve to actually think and accept that there is a latent northern european racism based on «white» and «superior». Others have just verified it by the way they responded.

Most of you just attacked me.

If I am racist then you don't have to think about what I'm saying right?

That's accomodating but definitely not wise.
I especially enjoyed the contribution of our american friends BTW.

	12-02-2002 02:13									#154
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I think the big question here, is what evidence have you presented?

Another thing that comes to mind - What exactly gives you the right to label North Europenas?

Hmmm, one more - Isn't it the person who presents the argument that has to give the evidence, not vice versa?

BTW, every comment that said "____ is ___" other than yours, was an attempt to show you that you're being too general and not accepting of the fact that every person is different.

	12-02-2002 02:36									#155
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone I think the big question here, is what evidence have you presented?

I only invite you to think. The evidence will present itself. But you being from the US will propably not have access to them.

quote: Another thing that comes to mind - What exactly gives you the right to label North Europenas?

Good thing you didn;t say euroPENIS. Tha would create a dirty diplomatic episode

I am Greek that gives me the right

quote: BTW, every comment that said "____ is ___" other than yours, was an attempt to show you that you're being too general and not accepting of the fact that every person is different.

I know

	12-02-2002 06:06									#156
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I had prepared a post for this thread, a couple of hours ago, but unfortunately my ISP kicked me out. This may not be relevant any more, but what the heck? Here it is:

quote: Paiktis22 and Roland, you are an embarassment to all progressive Europeans in this forum! Don't you have anything better to do? Are the stockmarkets slow today, Roland? And paiktis22, does your girlfriend have a headache or sth? What kind of macho lets-whip-them-out-and-compare contest is happening here? And with history books no less!

I see that only paiktis22 is keeping up the troll. Probably the stockmarket's up but the girl's still down.

As a matter of fact, paiktis22 has become a first caliber troll these last days. My friend, I suggest that you change your avatar into something more suitable, like this one below. It's the same color anyway...

	12-02-2002 08:11									#157
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Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!!!

People in Europe

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Wo kann affen etwa sonst?
Dos cervesos, por favor
Zu heizen, yes, doch
Ha ha sir, et paradis
Jacqueteure, au secours, mon taille
Europa is AOK
Hola del puerto
Ba ba ba
People in Europe
Ba ba ba
People in Europa

Ciao ciao bella, Monaco
Bon voyage in Sverige
Kom nu med
Vi får dricka mañana
Honi soit mal qui mal y pense
Wo kann affen etwa sonst?
Dos calvesos, por favor
Svenskar in James Bond
-Blur

	12-02-2002 10:31									#158
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Tribalism.

-=Vel=-

	12-02-2002 10:38									#159
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Final conclusions: stop judging me and throwing slander and just stop and think about what I've said. Only a handful of people had the nerve to actually think and accept that there is a latent northern european racism based on «white» and «superior». Others have just verified it by the way they responded. Most of you just attacked me. If I am racist then you don't have to think about what I'm saying right? That's accomodating but definitely not wise. I especially enjoyed the contribution of our american friends BTW.

Judging, schmudging. I'm sure you recall that little thread you started awhile back about members of a certain you-know-what ethnic persuasion having an inherent odor problem. You know very well that if a honky boy from down-home Virginia such as myself posted something like that the accusations of racism would fly fast and furious. I'm just saying that what goes around comes around, if you catch my drift.

Don't go lumping me in with the nordic types either. Most of us Americans are just plain mongrels, and like I've said before, most of us southerners got a touch o' brown sugar in 'em somewheres. Anyway the English ain't German, their Celts. Gene studies proved it. Their more closely related to the French and Spanish than to the Germans. The fact is that prior to the Protestant reformation most of 'em recognized that anyway.

Anyway, you shoulda realized by now that SOME of our root'n toot'n Teuton posters reckon their superior to just about EVERYBODY anyway. I'm not naming names.

	12-02-2002 10:40									#160
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OK, I'm dying to know more about the Spanish occupation of Greek territory. Was this a short term occupation during one of the wars against the Ottoman empire?

	12-02-2002 14:49									#161
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Et pour dire la verite (sans que person le sasse ) J'ai vecu pendant 6 ans a Belqique sans la moindre probleme. J'ai practiment grandi a Bruxelles. Donc Je sais fort bien que j'exagerre.

So seriously, do you really think there is less racism in southern europe than in northern europe ? Your personal experience in Belgium and Greece is more valuable there if you are black or asian rather than an ordinary Greek. Or do you think "northerners" are racist about people with "mediterranean" looks ?

	12-02-2002 15:16									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove OK, I'm dying to know more about the Spanish occupation of Greek territory. Was this a short term occupation during one of the wars against the Ottoman empire?

What's wrong with the link I gave ?

	12-02-2002 20:46									#163
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Was there a URL included in that post? I don't see it.

You mentioned the occupation of Greece in the 14th century, but nothing about how or why this came about. Thinking about it now the time period was obviously prior to the rise of the Ottomans.

	12-02-2002 20:52									#164
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posted 11-02-2002 17:04 (that is CET, I think)

This is the link again:

http://libro.uca.edu/chaytor/hac10.htm

Btw, not occupation of greece, just the central part (Attica, Boetia). At the time the Turks were still in Anatolia, and the Catalans had been called to fight them... but what do I say, just read... I find it to be a highly interesting episode.

	12-02-2002 22:56									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Roland So seriously, do you really think there is less racism in southern europe than in northern europe ? Your personal experience in Belgium and Greece is more valuable there if you are black or asian rather than an ordinary Greek. Or do you think "northerners" are racist about people with "mediterranean" looks ?

Nazi Roland,
I'm talking about a specific form of latent racism that I believe can be found in, I repeat, a latent form in Northern Europe and is best defined as racism of the «white» and «superior».

Noone can deny that racism doesn't exist in Southern Europe.

But there is a clear difference.

To those inflicted by it , and with your exception those are less and less , «white superior» racism transcents all cultural and social castras and acts as a unifying catalyst as well.

This cannot be found in southern european forms of racism.
And it is interesting that this special form of white superior racism is not found in all Northern countries. Or at least not in the same quantity.

I believe that this white superior racism ideology, which is very closely related to your dear compatriote Hitler feverous speaches and actions, is the basis up which modern white racism stands.

This racism is the remains of a very potent ideology that inflicted Northern Europe, UNIQELY and found as its best «vehicle» Hitler's and Nazi ideology.

It was there before them and remains of it can still be found in some citizens of some northern european countries. In some countries more than in others.

I don;t know if your comments about the eastern austria being slav and you being from western or something was a troll or wheter you subconsiously believe it and just let it lose.

But this is a fine example of that.

Yet this white superior latent racism is on the decline in Northern Europe but strong bastions of resistance can still be found in concrete forms such as the various neonazi groups. (of course then the matter of immigration kicks in too but mind you this is an add-on)
bastions of it can also be found in America like the white supremascist groups.

But these are extreme examples of something with a much larger social base which istill inflicts many of the northern european populations.

Of course south europe has racism too. But I repeat its basis is different. S. Europe to a large extend (since there are no absolutes) has been largely salvaged from this particular brand of racism which is yet the basis for modern racist ideology.

It is in the remains of an old mentality that is progressively fading I hope.

My stay and growing up in europe has little to do with what I'm saying since I was never a victim of deeds or comments of this form of racism. Also Belgium hardly qualifies as being the mother of this form of racism. It's not a grudge, it's an observation and I'd be surprised if there isn't any modern litterature on the subject.(unless it is deemed to divisie to produce it).


If you stop amd think you'immedeatly realize what I'm saying. It's the egg of the snake that was never really crushed since it was there long before Nazi Ideology gave it form and politcal - military power.

That's something northern europe is inflicted with (for various reasons) and southern europe isn't.

That doesn;t mean one is better than the other. It means that there is a difference in this particular matter which I stress does not mean it is absolute.

	13-02-2002 00:11									#166
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quote: Yet this white superior latent racism is on the decline in Northern Europe but strong bastions of resistance can still be found in concrete forms such as the various neonazi groups. (of course then the matter of immigration kicks in too but mind you this is an add-on)

How are these people latent racists??? They're very blatantly racist!

I think you're seeing the black 'copters here. You can let yor imagination run away with you if you let it.

Just because somebody didn't talk you or whatever is no basis for "latent racism". Take your story of the waiter. Maybe he was a CIA spy, trying to get you mad at him so that he could beat you up and torure you. See, you can take any action and apply some odd thoughts behind it and make up a fantastical story. Does it make it true? No.

	13-02-2002 00:15									#167
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*sigh*

you are being too simplistic and didn't understand everything that I wrote.

your ssumptions are very funny unless of course it's trolling. (I hope you don;t really believe what you are saying).

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 13-02-2002 at 00:24

	13-02-2002 00:37									#168
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I think you are plain to dumb to get a clue. Sorry.

	13-02-2002 00:51									#169
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That's alright.
I think you simply don't think. (which is mighty worse...)

	13-02-2002 01:31									#170
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BTW some of you people are pathetic.

If you think someone accuses you of racism and that soemone you think isn't from "your kind" then you jump all over him saying someone didn't speak to me and I think he did it because I am dark skinned and greek.

Is there no end to the stupidity of some? is this really your level of thinking?

you don't know how I look you don't know my family roots.

But then again if i was one of "you" (because it's you, some of you, who define it like that) then I suppose I'd be in knee dip sh!t of accusations of being a racist. (which I am too actually)

Some of you are really pathetic.
You avoid to think if you feel you are insulted.

	13-02-2002 01:42									#171
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It's not because you are greek or dark skinned. It's you very personal stupidity. You complain about racism, but state IN YOUR VERY FIRST POST a racist premise. Therefore you are a rascist, but complaining about other people to be.

	13-02-2002 01:57									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Loud Medicine It's not because you are greek or dark skinned. It's you very personal stupidity. You complain about racism, but state IN YOUR VERY FIRST POST a racist premise. Therefore you are a rascist, but complaining about other people to be.

oh ffs. I state something that I believe exists and you label me a racist because of it and because you think I made a racist comment.

the sun is yellow. is this a racist comment to the stars of night?
desert is grey. have the green fields been offended?

deal with it. It's reality. Instead of saying I am a racist and be done with it, look WITHIN yourself and your society and see if what I say it's true.

How more simple can I be for you to get it?

After you've examined yourself be free to say whatever you think of me. But first think of what I'm saying.

do you get it now or are you about to embark on more accusations of me?

	13-02-2002 02:04									#173
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The sun is not yellow. Even the thread title is racistic. You make a lot of bad examples, but you don't get the idea. Better think more and post less.

	13-02-2002 02:08									#174
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sun is yellow. what do you have against that?

you are beyond hope. you hide behind the moto «this is racist - period» and you don't search your soul or your society. and this is racism of a far more dangerous kind.

	13-02-2002 02:19									#175
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Oh, come on!

quote: have the conviction that northern europeans are inherently racist. They can't help it, it is in their mentality

This is a highly racist statements. A group of "northern europeans" (whatever that is) have a special trait, it's in their mentality.

quote: a nothern european on the other hand will be much more reserved towards the other person and will even subconsciously always take pride in what he believes is his "superior" race.

How can you prove that? It's sheer racism and, it's YOUR PERSONAL racism. "The greek" and "the northern european"? Show me a "northern european" ...

There is no need to "search your soul or your society". I just have to read YOUR posts.

	13-02-2002 03:42									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Loud Medicine [quote]Oh, come on! This is a highly racist statements. A group of "northern europeans" (whatever that is) have a special trait, it's in their mentality.

You take one phrase and you build upon it what you obviously read in it. Don't be so lazy. This thread is I don't know how many pages long and I have explained my position a million times over and very clearly.
If you just stop at this phrase you have thought of nothing.

quote: How can you prove that? It's sheer racism and, it's YOUR PERSONAL racism. "The greek" and "the northern european"? Show me a "northern european" ...

Again this is taken from my first post and is a secluded phrase. Read and try to understand what I'm saying instead of trying to cling on first impressions of phrases taken out of the context.

we are talking about a mentality that some have it and some not. But that is found in northern europe. and it is different from any other place since it is defined by «white» and «superior» and transents countries or national rivalties. it can be subtle or violent. and it forms the root of modern racism.

You are living on another planet if you think that white racism doesn't exist. What I'm inviting you to think about is how deep roots it has in northern europe and how many people, in various ways and degrees are inficlted with it.

quote: There is no need to "search your soul or your society". I just have to read YOUR posts.

You've read what you want to read.

	13-02-2002 03:54									#177
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now stop pointing fingers like a vexed little child, read the thread carefully, understand what I'm saying, and look at your society and maybe yourself.

	13-02-2002 04:11									#178
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quote: we are talking about a mentality that some have it and some not. But that is found in northern europe. and it is different from any other place since it is defined by «white» and «superior» and transents countries or national rivalties. it can be subtle or violent. and it forms the root of modern racism.

Hmm, that's why France and England looooove each other, right?

	13-02-2002 04:14									#179
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Hmm, that's why France and England looooove each other, right?

MacTBone this is getting tiresome. I've already answered to that argument.

we are not talking about (former) nationalistic rivalties. besides France is North as is South. so be careful or your own point may turn against you. this is not North vs South. This is «white» «superior» racist mentality found in northern europe.

	13-02-2002 05:23									#180
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BTW Roland, if you ever manage to get out of your little cage, I advice you to go to Canada. Sounds like it'll cost you less


TORONTO (Reuters) - A Canadian prison inmate who has renounced his white-supremacist views will have a swastika tattoo removed from his abdomen at a cost of $4,088 to taxpayers.

The Globe and Mail newspaper reported on Monday that the Correctional Services department would pick up the cost of surgery to remove a large Nazi swastika from Darren Lee Letourneau, an inmate at the medium security Mountain Institution in Agassiz, British Columbia .

A spokesman with the prison service would not confirm the inmate's identity.

Mountain Institution's warden, Alex Lubimov, told the Globe and Mail that removing the Nazi symbol would help Letourneau, who is serving a 10-year sentence for theft and weapons offenses, during his re-integration into society.

"This is more than going to pay for itself," said Lubimov, who approved the expense.

"In this case, an offender decided he didn't believe in what the racist symbol stood for any more," Correctional Services spokesman Dennis Finlay told Reuters on Monday. "We believe he is making a sincere effort to change."

Letourneau has apparently disowned his previous racist beliefs and has told prison officials he plans to speak out against racism when he gets out of jail. He is unable to pay for the operation himself.

The tattoo will be removed through a series of laser surgeries over several months, the Globe reported.

Having the federal prison system pay to have the swastika removed is a good thing, said Rubin Friedman, a spokesman with the Canadian Jewish Congress.

"We're pleased that the government is able to help him do this, but, in the long run, we'd be better off spending the money on education," Friedman told Reuters.

"It's one less racist swastika in the world."