11-02-2002 16:35									#91
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paiktis22, I can't believe you have started such a thread. You say that people from northern europe are latent racists because when you sit at their table they will not talk to you??? (something like that was in your first post anyway....)
Maybe you have such experiences but there might be reasons for it you simply don't understand. I think most northern europeans are quite reserved and hard to get in contact with anyway. This has got nothing to do with being racist. The reason scandinavians are easy to get in contact with (in Greece I suppose) is that in Greece the alcohol is so cheap compared to Scandinvia that they will drink a lot. It is quite well known that when you have drunk enough you make contact easier. Another reason why people don't want to talk to you might just be related to you, maybe you are just not such a great guy to hang out with, as you have shown in this thread....
Thank you for your attention.

	11-02-2002 17:29									#92
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Haven't I heard quite a bit about Greece hating Turkey?

And vice versa.

Maybe there is a reason for this hate.
Have you ever read the newer and modern history of Greece?

quote: Originally posted by orange By you making broud generalizations about "Northern Europeans" aren't you really being racist yourself

Is this a necessary condition?

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Greeks are hairy and smelly.

Smelly? Haven't heared that before
And I though that other Europeans had that "privilege"

quote: Originally posted by Assur According to a study the Greek youth is the most xenophobic of all EU countries

Parhaps because foreign immigrants in Greece in quantities is something new to these generations while in the rest of the Western European countries it is not. Try to remember your resent past...

quote: Originally posted by Korpo Of course there is xenophobia, but xenophobia is not the same thing with racism. Especially since already a significant part of Northern Europe's population (and citizenry by passport and nationality) are not of the biological race that could be referred as Northern European (best described as "white"). Another example: the Danes are harshly trying to avoid having foreigners of any race move into their country, whether it is a white German (so this isn't likely to be a case of racism) or anybody else. That is xenophobia, the fear of strangers and exotic things from different cultures, nations, etc. Xenophobia is actually a widespread phenomenon on this planet, it seems to be part of the human nature. It is not identical with racism, because you may as well be pretty much more familiar with a person of another skin color, when he/she is raised in your cultural tradition, than with a "same-colored" stranger that doesn't even speak your language...

I agree with you

quote: Originally posted by Assur If people can get away with such acts and remain unpunished, there's no need for an extreme right party in Greece.

Maybe you ignore the fact that a great percentage, perhaps more than 50% of the Albanians living in Greece are illegal and have no green card or paid a public servant to get one. - corruption in public services is unfortunately high -

I have no problem giving a home and a job to an immigrant but when they get too many the natives of lower incomes get with no job at all.
Is it fair the people of a nation get with no job because the leadership of another screwed their people?

quote: Originally posted by Assur What's your excuse for Greek racism towards Roma? Are they conspiring to destroy the mighty, ancient state of Greece like the Turks and Albanians? Or are they just darkskinned, dirty and inferior ?

Who is Roma?

quote: Originally posted by Roland Of course we feel superior over the Greeks. After all they spent centuries gettin the crap beaten out of them by the turks, while we spent a couple decades beatin the crap out of the Turks! * my northern genes made me do it *

Why feel superior over the Greeks?
Because a couple of musicians and scientists were born in Austria?
Or because your "empire" lasted 2-3 centuries?
I can fill an entire forum with Greek achivements while you can bearly fill a single thread with your achivements.

	11-02-2002 17:33									#93
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"I can fill an entire forum with Greek achivements while you can bearly fill a single thread with your achivements."

Like what ? I guess you'll deny now that modern Greeks are ethnic slavs, and have nothing to do with ancient Greece....

* hell I didn't know I'm so nordic *

	11-02-2002 17:53									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Like what ?

I can recommend you the "History of Hellenic nation" which consists of 16 books of 500-700 pages each.
And still many things left out.

If you have the slighest idea of History you should know the wealth of Greek history. On the contrary, Austrian history haven't much to present. Half of your surrounding countries have to present more than you do...

quote: Originally posted by Roland I guess you'll deny now that modern Greeks are ethnic slavs, and have nothing to do with ancient Greece....

Sounds like you deny that you are ethnic slavs

	11-02-2002 18:02									#95
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 is there a fear for a southern european to wander the streets of germany or flanders or even some scandinavian neighboors at night because of his skin color? yes there is. why? because of his skin color.

Such nonsense!

Southern Europeans are accepted here in Belgium - they have been, for the last 40 something years

You said I have to make the distinction between xenophobia and "white latent racism". Well, this is xenophobia; it has nothing to do with white racism. If you're walking alone in the streets at night, yes you should always be in fear. There are (very drunk)people out there that would attack people because they come from another Flemish province and speak a funny dialect, or if they speak with a Dutch accent, or simply because they're not Morrocan.

	11-02-2002 18:15									#96
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"I can recommend you the "History of Hellenic nation" which consists of 16 books of 500-700 pages each."

I can recommend the history of St Peter monastery crafted for the 1582 jubilee that should be about the same volume.

"On the contrary, Austrian history haven't much to present. Half of your surrounding countries have to present more than you do..."

And that from the souvlaki tribe...

"Sounds like you deny that you are ethnic slavs"

Only in the east of the country. In the west we're suchwhat nordic...

	11-02-2002 18:37									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Roland I can recommend the history of St Peter monastery crafted for the 1582 jubilee that should be about the same volume.

You ask for Greek achivements and I recommend a source.
In the contrary you recommend the history of a monastery
Well I don't consider as an achivement what some Austrian monks were doing in their daily life
Even my grandmother's life would be more interesting
Besides we have a lot of them too

What a moronic argument

quote: Originally posted by Roland And that from the souvlaki tribe...

I would say from Grand Larouse.
I had a hard time finding your nation in the sideprints.
Even the cavemans had more space in it than Austria

quote: Originally posted by Roland Only in the east of the country. In the west we're suchwhat nordic...

	11-02-2002 18:44									#98
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"Well I don't consider as an achivement what some Austrian monks were doing in their daily life"

More about the cultural role the monastery had. For the city and the missionaries for slavs and hungarains. That's not very exciting per se, but compared to Greece post 600 AD, it's incredibly exciting.

"I had a hard time finding your nation in the sideprints."

In the sideprints of greek history ? Well, you'll also have a hard time finding us in the history of Thailand...

	11-02-2002 19:00									#99
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Roland, you are being an Anglo-Germanic racist!!!

Remember, Nordics aren't racists!!!

But I think that at least two Greeks I know are.

As for history, remember the Romans?

The greatest empire in history?

Or are the Romans now considered Northern Europeans too?

By the way, there are only three types of people, Caucazoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid...

I think Greeks and Germans are in the same category

	11-02-2002 19:13									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Roland More about the cultural role the monastery had. For the city and the missionaries for slavs and hungarains. That's not very exciting per se, but compared to Greece post 600 AD, it's incredibly exciting.

Strange, I always considered Byzantine history more exiting...

Big deal. We have books for many cities' history and missionaries in Eastern Europe too.

quote: Originally posted by Roland In the sideprints of greek history ? Well, you'll also have a hard time finding us in the history of Thailand...

Apparently you don't know that Grand Larouse is a French encyclopedia consisted of 9 books (in the Greek edition).
The first two describes the world history from the human era to nowadays.

I guess you only read Austrian publications, right?

	11-02-2002 19:26									#101
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Person A: "you smell. You probably don't think so yourself, but I notice it. You thinkyou're sooo hygenic, but you reek."

Person B: "No I don't."

Person A: "Yes you do. You don't show it, but I can clearly smell it. It's in your genes, not much you can do about it, but you smell, buddy"

Person B: "No I DON'T. You smell! You are notorious for not washing, therefor you smell."

Person A: " Not true. We don't have to wash because we don't smell. You people couldn't stop smelling if you washed 6 times a day."

Person B: "prove it. How can you say you don't smell when you once posted that you smelled. Prove that we smell."

Person A: quote: once posted that you smell.
"I'm sooo not going into that."

quote: prove that we smell.
"I smelled it myself, didn't I. How much more prove do you want?"

Person B: "oh yeah?. Well, our smell is sign of pride. We are proud of our smellyness. Although we DON'T smell"

Person A: "Yes you do."

ad infinitum.

	11-02-2002 19:44									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus Person A: "you smell. You probably don't think so yourself, but I notice it. You thinkyou're sooo hygenic, but you reek." Person B: "No I don't." Person A: "Yes you do. You don't show it, but I can clearly smell it. It's in your genes, not much you can do about it, but you smell, buddy" Person B: "No I DON'T. You smell! You are notorious for not washing, therefor you smell." Person A: " Not true. We don't have to wash because we don't smell. You people couldn't stop smelling if you washed 6 times a day." Person B: "prove it. How can you say you don't smell when you once posted that you smelled. Prove that we smell." Person A: quote: once posted that you smell. "I'm sooo not going into that." quote: prove that we smell. "I smelled it myself, didn't I. How much more prove do you want?" Person B: "oh yeah?. Well, our smell is sign of pride. We are proud of our smellyness. Although we DON'T smell" Person A: "Yes you do." ad infinitum.

Yeah, OK I got your message Drekkus.
No need for such garbage.
A couple of lines would be better.

Unfortunately for you that applies to most of the threads here.
They end up to an infinite debate.

Cheap argument though if interested on my opinion

	11-02-2002 19:44									#103
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"Strange, I always considered Byzantine history more exiting..."

Exiting, indeed. Like the 5000 soldiers from the Catalan Company beating byzantine armies that were 5 times larger.

"Apparently you don't know that Grand Larouse is a French encyclopedia consisted of 9 books (in the Greek edition)."

No I didn't know that. Of course, I may have heard of Larousse. So what is your selective reading in that work supposed to show ?

"I guess you only read Austrian publications, right?"

Not only, but also. Do you greeks have anything resembling an encyclopedia, or do you rely on translations of nordic works only ?

	11-02-2002 20:13									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Exiting, indeed. Like the 5000 soldiers from the Catalan Company beating byzantine armies that were 5 times larger.

I am not sure when and where that happened?
If you are refering to the fall of Constantinople on 1204 during the 4th crusade then I would say it was a much larger army and it was an unexpected move if you consider the fact that they supposed to go elsewhere.

If you are refering to something else then my congratulations to the Catalans which are not nordics BTW
Byzantines won many battles too with germanic, slavic, Persian and Arabic tribes.

Besides Byzantine empire resisted many invasions for over a millenium while you collapsed after a 2-3 centuries.
You only beated the Turkish while fell like a leaf in World War I and lost most battles.
Napoleon gave you a good lesson too

quote: Originally posted by Roland No I didn't know that. Of course, I may have heard of Larousse. So what is your selective reading in that work supposed to show ?

Firstly I have almost read all of the History section and not selectively. I am still reading it.

Secondly I am contradicting you.
It is you that you want to show something and beside blind racism I can't find a reason for you doing that...

quote: Originally posted by Roland Not only, but also. Do you greeks have anything resembling an encyclopedia, or do you rely on translations of nordic works only ?

We have anything you want. Entirely Greek encyclopedias, on paper or electronically, French publications, American publications, Italian publications, and nordic publications (English, German etc.) etc.

You see, we have no problem publishing all opinions and reading them as well...

	11-02-2002 20:28									#105
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"I am not sure when and where that happened?"

Early 14th century. The Catalans ended up holding a junk of Greece through the 14th century (until 1387 or so).

"...and it was an unexpected move if you consider the fact that they supposed to go elsewhere."

LOL. Not sure about the 1st crusade, but during the 2nd crusade the germans already threatened to take Constantinoples, and Venice has always been keen on the region. So that was not unexpected. More down to infighting.

"Besides Byzantine empire resisted many invasions for over a millenium while you collapsed after a 2-3 centuries."

Well if Byzantium counts as an empire post 1204, then Austria has been an empire from 996 to today.

"You only beated the Turkish while fell like a leaf in World War I "

We did not beat the Turks then. That was a bit earlier, like in 1529, 1664, 1683... in WWI we were allied with'em.

So I assume you still have a lot of reading to do.

"It is you that you want to show something and beside blind racism I can't find a reason for you doing that..."

No, I want to show blind racism. Paiktis told me so.

	11-02-2002 20:31									#106
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Yes, we are latent racists. The southern Europeans on the other hand seem to be far more open about it. Look for example at Paiktis' comments on Albanians and gypsies, or Mr. Fini here in Italy, etc., etc.

	11-02-2002 20:34									#107
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It is somewhat expected but still a bit disharteaning to see people abandoning arguments, because actually they don't have any, about what I am saying.
Instead they resort to assumptions on me, my allegded personal experiences and to "humour" which is a painless way to express how one really feels.

Instead of attacking could you not simply stop and simply think? (I know it's a revolutionary consept to some of you, even the most alledgedly devoided of sentiment, especially when it is about matters that escape your own microcosmos... or "well founded" values)

	11-02-2002 20:38									#108
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Roland is biggoted towards southern europeans. Paiktis is biggoted about Africans.

That much is plain; but look you two, enough already. Both of your nations have long and proud histories packed with past achievements. That was yesterday. The last century was the American century. This century is going to be yet another American century.

We are the future. I say: "Live it or live with it!"

	11-02-2002 20:45									#109
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Austria's history can't possibly compare to Hellenic history. It's like comparing a deux chevaux with a ferrari.

But this is besides the point. Dr. Strangelove, besides your cute avatar, you too are reading what you want to read.

Forget about filling me with your accomodating assumtions (and shame on you Dr. Strange for that) and start thinking about what I am saying.

	11-02-2002 20:46									#110
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It is somewhat expected but still a bit disharteaning to see people abandoning arguments, because actually they don't have any, about what I am saying. Instead they resort to assumptions on me, my allegded personal experiences and to "humour" which is a painless way to express how one really feels. Instead of attacking could you not simply stop and simply think? (I know it's a revolutionary consept to some of you, even the most alledgedly devoided of sentiment, especially when it is about matters that escape your own microcosmos... or "well founded" values)

You want me to think about my racism? In your eyes I'm racist just for being North european. There's no arguing against a generalisation like that. If I told you that I have dated several dark skinned girls, would that change your mind about me personally?

	11-02-2002 20:57									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Roland LOL. Not sure about the 1st crusade, but during the 2nd crusade the germans already threatened to take Constantinoples, and Venice has always been keen on the region. So that was not unexpected. More down to infighting.

Still, it was unexpected.

If you consider the fact that the first crusade was originally conducted after a Byzantine request and Constantinople had successfully repulsed every expected attemp to capture it then it is very unlikely it was expected. At list by the Byzantine leaderiship of that time.

quote: Originally posted by Roland Well if Byzantium counts as an empire post 1204, then Austria has been an empire from 996 to today.

I don't comprehend your logic.
Byzantine empire after 1204 was what were left after centuries of strife. After 8 centuries of thrive, lasted 2,5 more centuries and then collapsed.

And regarding Austria you are refering to a part of the Holy Roman Empire centuries before it was shaped to the AustroHungarian empire.

Totally irrelevant

quote: Originally posted by Roland We did not beat the Turks then. That was a bit earlier, like in 1529, 1664, 1683... in WWI we were allied with'em. So I assume you still have a lot of reading to do.

Who said that?
"You only beated the Turkish (the one part of the sentence) while fell like a leaf in World War I (the other part of the sentence)" is what I said.
I didn't say that you beated the Turkish during the world war I
Chill out dude I know who were your allies in World War I and I know what my country took after the end of it (Smyrna region and East Thrace).

quote: Originally posted by Roland No, I want to show blind racism. Paiktis told me so.

Look man, I don't have time to fool around.
I have more important things to do.
If you want to seriously discuss with me I am available to do so.
If you want to play around then go and jerk off in the playground...

	11-02-2002 20:57									#112
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It is somewhat expected but still a bit disharteaning to see people abandoning arguments, because actually they don't have any, about what I am saying.

Who's the one without arguments, who?????? Aren't you that person......sheessss grow up man. You started a discussion without any argument to strengthen your statement and now you are telling us we don't have arguments???

I feel sorry for you, I really do.

	11-02-2002 20:58									#113
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Strangelove:

"We are the future."

No, you are a temproray aberration.

paiktis:

"Austria's history can't possibly compare to Hellenic history. It's like comparing a deux chevaux with a ferrari."

Indeed, but I was comparing it to your history, not ancient hellenic history. Just because you call yourself Hellen- ....

	11-02-2002 21:00									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Roland is biggoted towards southern europeans. Paiktis is biggoted about Africans. That much is plain; but look you two, enough already. Both of your nations have long and proud histories packed with past achievements. That was yesterday. The last century was the American century. This century is going to be yet another American century. We are the future. I say: "Live it or live with it!"

Congratulations dude

I haven't heared anyone saying the opposite so far in this thread so where does this nuke come from?

	11-02-2002 21:04									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Look man, I don't have time to fool around.

Then what on earth are you doing here, swallowing my obvious troll hook, line, sinker....

Just two serious things:

1204 was not surprising, it was the infighting between Isaak and forgot-his-name.

The story of the Catalans is quite interesting:
http://libro.uca.edu/chaytor/hac10.htm

	11-02-2002 21:06									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "We are the future." No, you are a temproray aberration.

Denail is a wonderful defense mechanism, is it not?

	11-02-2002 21:08									#117
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Denail is a wonderful defense mechanism, is it not?

Denial ? Defense ? Well American, it really hurts when your nationalist halluzinations aren't shared, huh ?

	11-02-2002 21:12									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Well American, it really hurts when your nationalist halluzinations aren't shared, huh ?

Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.

	11-02-2002 21:15									#119
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.

Excellent choice of quote there.

	11-02-2002 21:23									#120
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It's nice to see that someone who was not born in the Iberian peninsula knows that Athens and other Greek territories once belonged to the crown of Aragon. I'm impressed.