10-02-2002 06:34									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Mercator,
we are not talking about hatred, xenophobic crimes against immigrants in northern europe. nor against gypsies or albanians immigrants in Greece.

we are talking about the latent racism of white northern europeans to those who are not like them and have no reason (imaginery or otherwise) to have racist feelings towards them. that is except for not being "white" and "superior" like them.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 10-02-2002 at 06:52

	10-02-2002 06:35									#62
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Mercator

the same principle as: the whiter, the better. (like their former colonial masters have - meaning they perhaps inherited the same lack of civility their former masters were characterised with)

	10-02-2002 06:55									#63
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Assur, you are again throwing stones to cover your hands. even if all of what this artcile says is true (which it isn't, it is ommiting serious aspects which I will tell you about later on) this doesn't change the northern european white latent racism in any way.

Perhaps, but tell me, where do you get this idea from that northern europeans are more latent racist than southern europeans? What do you base this on? All surveys show that southern europeans can be just as, or even more racist/xenophobic than northern europeans. Is it because northern europeans are white(r)? Or what?

quote: now some quick pointers about the article 1. two albanians beat with stones and metal bars some young greeks and sent them to the hospital. one of them barely escaped being thrown into a coma and were all horribly disfigured, bones crushed etc. that happened in a very small and closed society and thus the ultimatum. I don't justify it and that was the xenophobic nmayor I was talking about but on the other hand I don't like ommissions 2. Roma, or Gypsies. In the suburb of Zefiri the neighborhoods of gypsies are the number one spot for illegal trafficing of heroin and other drugs. These are criminals which are heavily armed and use their own families as protection. that's a place where cops fear to trend.

1. And was anyone punished for this racist act?

2. Bravo. I speak about a racist act committed against the Roma and you start about crimes committed by Roma. If you lived in north Belgium you could become chairman of the Vlaams Blok

	10-02-2002 07:04									#64
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Assur Perhaps, but tell me, where do you get this idea from that northern europeans are more latent racist than southern europeans? What do you base this on? All surveys show that southern europeans can be just as, or even more racist/xenophobic than northern europeans. Is it because northern europeans are white(r)? Or what?

It's because they use it as a basis for racism which uniquely belongs to them.
Also make the distinction between xenophobia and racism (which is white)

quote: 1. And was anyone punished for this racist act?

I can't really tell you what was the punishment of officials, the info was obliterated under the voices of protest from all political parties and NGOs for days on TV and radio.

quote: 2. Bravo. I speak about a racist act committed against the Roma and you start about crimes committed by Roma. If you lived in north Belgium you could become chairman of the Vlaams Blok

No, you brought forth an article which very freely talks about pogrom of gypsies. I will not ratify such slander by answering it.
I know Zefyri (where the bulk of the gypsies are) and I also know the mutlistore buildings that were built just for them, before they decided that nature is where they prefere to live.

and a small note: you are sligthly uneducated on the subject if you refere to all gypsies as "Roma". They don't. They have many distinctions of self - determination.

About Vlaams Blok, yes a spendit flander fruit. I've seen their beautiful cross sign on many walls in Flanders.


interesting that you take as granted that white racism in Nothern europe exists though. I never heard you deny it. Just say that "hey look you are as baaaad as us "

make the distinction between immigration, xenophobia on one hand and white racism on a personal level on the other

	10-02-2002 07:06									#65
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Mercator, we are not talking about hatred, xenophobic crimes against immigrants in northern europe. nor against gypsies or albanians immigrants in Greece. we are talking about the latent racism of white northern europeans to those who are not like them and have no reason (imaginery or otherwise) to have racist feelings towards them. that is except for not being "white" and "superior" like them.

I don´t really see the difference. Except that the crimes are simply the expressions of the more "active" types, so to speak. Just like many men may be sexist, but only some go as far as to actually rape/abuse women.

Perhaps Northern Europeans feel so "superior", as you put it, because white people are native to NE and coloured people are not. Whereas Souther Europe has had longer ties with coloured people. Those NE racists feel the others to be intruders, taking their jobs etc. etc.

	10-02-2002 07:18									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Mercator,
let me put it like this:

is there a fear for a southern european to wander the streets of germany or flanders or even some scandinavian neighboors at night because of his skin color?

yes there is.

why? because of his skin color.

Is there a danger for a north european to wander the streets of greece or italy or portugal at night?

no, at least not because of his skin color.

these are of course extreme paradigms but they do underline the form of latent racism of white northern europeans I'm talking about (which can be expressed by other subtler non violent ways or comments) - in contrast with southern europeans who seem more tolerant.

as to why they are moretolerant maybe you are right in thinking that they are exposed to many other races far longer than the northern europeans and are more cosmopolitan.


but I think it's because of a hazy "white" - "superior" mentality the northern europeans have and the southern europeans are delivered from.


and please note that I'm talking about a subconscious latent racism towards those who are not "from their part of the woods" that does not exist in all of the norhern european countries.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 10-02-2002 at 07:35

	10-02-2002 08:11									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmmm yes, I see...

	10-02-2002 08:41									#68
	This is a little off-topic, but it fits and I thought I'd share it... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Last night just after reading this thread, there was a knock at my door. I wasn't expecting anyone, so I went to answer it.

Now, I'm in college, and this dorm is set up differently than most. The doors open to the outside, and then there is a door on the inside that opens to a quad of 3 other rooms. So if I open my door right now, I'm on a balcony, and I can go to the stairs to go down to the 1st floor and walk out of the building (imagine a motel)

It's around 11 o'clock in the evening. So I get up, go to the door, look out the peeper, and standing at my door is a tall black male with a dark baseball cap on. From what I could tell, he looked between 35 and 40. My first reaction was - open the door. Then for a split second I was scared, I thought about the possibility that this person was going to harm me. It literally was just a quick flash in my head, but of course, I opened the door. The man apologized very politely, as he was looking for his son who lived in the room beneath mine (he got the right room, wrong floor) so I directed him to that room, he apologized for disturbing me to which I said no problem at all, and he walked away.

I sat down in my chair, and instantly thought to myself - how awful for me to think that about someone, especially someone who came off as a very nice, friendly person. Someone just looking for his son.

Now I thought, where did my fear stem from. Was it the fact that he was black, would I have flashed the same thought if it were a white man of the same size and stature? Was it his age relative to the normal college aged student? Would I have reacted the same if it were his son who was at my door (meaning, would I have reacted differently based on a younger person of the same physical makeup) Or was it just the combination of the hour of night and the unexpectedness of a visitor.

I honestly can't say. Suppose he was someone who planned on doing me physical harm...would I have been justified in not answering the door? Or would that be prejudice based on factors which the person had no control over, a man, simply looking for his son...maybe coming to visit him.

Well, it certainly provoked a lot of thought in my head. I wish I knew the answers to the questions I asked myself

	10-02-2002 20:42									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

boy I post all that and no one responds

bump

	10-02-2002 20:49									#70
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by orange boy I post all that and no one responds

People have to get some sleep too.

I might have experienced the same thing really... But that kind of depends on what he looked like. I might have felt the same when a white man had been standing there.

	10-02-2002 20:59									#71
	Full PM-box? Change here!

orange - You have that feeling because you know, based on police statistics, that blacks are more likely to be criminals. It is a stereotip and a prejudice, but it is in subconscious.

I think I would have the same reaction if there were a gypsy at my door altought I try not to judge people after appearances.

	10-02-2002 21:01									#72
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mihai orange - You have that feeling because you know, based on police statistics, that blacks are more likely to be criminals. It is a stereotip and a prejudice, but it is in subconscious.

Yes, I suppose you're right. Wish I could get rid of it though

	10-02-2002 21:36									#73
	Got spare money?

Orange, not sure about you, but I think it would depend more on his clothing, and hwo he kept himself. I think I'd overlook race and concentrate on appearances, like if the person wore a business suit, or nicer clothes.

	10-02-2002 21:40									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by orange Yes, I suppose you're right. Wish I could get rid of it though

You can not fear anymore everytime when a blak person ring at your door. All you have to do is to move in an all black district.

	11-02-2002 00:11									#75
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Orange, not sure about you, but I think it would depend more on his clothing, and hwo he kept himself. I think I'd overlook race and concentrate on appearances, like if the person wore a business suit, or nicer clothes.

Well, that's not entirely fair either. This guy certainly wasn't dressed up, jeans sweatshirt cap. But he was completely nice and just got the wrong room.

Likewise, a person in a business suit could be trying to gain your trust in order to get his foot in the door.

	11-02-2002 02:29									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Right, I never said I was being fair, I was just being completely honest. There are sick weirdos that come in all shapes, sizes, and incomes, we just sometimes steretype them.

	11-02-2002 05:30									#77
	Jesse Jackson once said: Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That one of the worst moments of his life was when he was walking down a street in Washington D.C. at 0200 in the morning.
He heard footsteps behind him and became nervous. When he turned around, he saw a white face, and WAS RELIEVED!

I remembered that as soon as I saw Orange's post, because I have had experiences such as that myself...

Now, after I read this thread, I realize that I am deep down racist, due to my German ancestry. Thanks for clearing that up for me!!!

The guy who started this thread has a serious case of the "White Devils".

But chances are, he also has a case of the "Dark Devils" the "Mildly Brown Devils" and perhaps the "mid-to-light brown devils".

Having spent a little time in Albania and FYROM, I can tell you that the Northern Europeans have nothing on the Southern Europeans. I have seen firsthand their racial handiwork.

I guess it's deep down in their "mentality".

	11-02-2002 05:40									#78
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Congratulations on not having understood anything

*applause*

Now do try and make a bit more sense that a little crying puppie, will you?

And read a bit of that thread so you can come up with some fresh arguments?

	11-02-2002 05:50									#79
	Typical answer... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When you have nothing intelligent to say, you insult.

Anyway, I am wondering how you can say this drivel, considering the Germans and English take in more refugees than anybody else...


Politely awaiting your next insult...

Please make it better than the last...

	11-02-2002 05:53									#80
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You get what you ask for. If you make quick assumptions about me don't be surprised if my answers are satyrical.

As for the english and the germans, please read up the thread. I am not in the mood for repeting arguments which I have written over and over again.

Just for the scoop: we are not talking about immigration and xenophobia but about white northern european latent racism which consists of a subconscious pride in being "white" and "supieror".

Pretty much like you demonstrated here with splashing over the screen your german roots

I hope I lived up to your expectations.
Now read the thread find the answers to what you've written and if you have something to add please do so.

	11-02-2002 05:58									#81
	Support Apolyton

Oh well, you know what they say:"Better latent than never!"

	11-02-2002 06:00									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, I think NOW we are discussing your racist tendencies...

Or at least I am...

Why do you feel that you are superior to white Northern Europeans? (Excluding those nice Scandinavians of course)

By pointing out their inherent weaknesses (Racism) are you not making a case that you are better than them?

Throwing stones to cover your hands again?


P.S. Insults were not bad, but include stronger more racially motivated ones next time!! (The hack on my Germanic descent was good though)

	11-02-2002 06:04									#83
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, accusing me of being a racist because I try to demonstrate the superiority of the southern europeans (TM).

It was one of the first arguments. Keep reading the thread. I think you are propably in the first few posts. That's when this natural backlash was mentioned. Keep reading. Post when you have something new to say please.

	11-02-2002 06:23									#84
	As you are just looking for attention... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'll give you one more post...

The truly frightening thing about you is that you believe this crap that you are spouting off about. People are allowed their opinions, and yours are slightly scary. I just hope you don't have too many friends who think like you.

As I have wasted enough time poking and prodding you, I can now declare you a racist.

Since you have declared a couple hundred million people that (racists), it shouldn't be that big of deal to you.

Normally I am quite impressed with people who do not waver from their convictions...

But not this time.

	11-02-2002 06:30									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sure. Bye.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 11-02-2002 at 07:54

	11-02-2002 09:53									#86
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Yes, accusing me of being a racist because I try to demonstrate the superiority of the southern europeans (TM). It was one of the first arguments. Keep reading the thread. I think you are propably in the first few posts. That's when this natural backlash was mentioned. Keep reading. Post when you have something new to say please.

Yeah, wasn't there something posted by you a short while back about Black people smelling bad?

	11-02-2002 10:44									#87
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I won't even bother to answer that

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 11-02-2002 at 11:19

	11-02-2002 13:59									#88
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Of course we feel superior over the Greeks. After all they spent centuries gettin the crap beaten out of them by the turks, while we spent a couple decades beatin the crap out of the Turks!

* my northern genes made me do it *

	11-02-2002 15:57									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

paiktis22: Before I actually bother to take part in this debate, I would like *you* to post some statistics showing that northern europeans are latent racists. Since you have disregarded everybody else´s statistics, I wait for some of your own.

	11-02-2002 16:05									#90
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I cannot assign a label to each Northern European for racism since I have no statistical data about it or haven't spoke with every single of them nor even a percentage but I tend to form a general idea from what you post here or elsewhere or your media broadcast or after visiting your country.

What you post here might give a true or false impression about your nation to the rest.

I personally don't "buy" that easy everything I see here but I admit that my judge get affected when I constantly and by many note the same reactions.

And I think that most if not all of you form an impression in a similar way.

Racist? It must be a person with limited knowledge and/or imagination and/or self-respect and/or superiority or inferiority complex unless his nation have suffered a lot and constantly by another one.

Didn't human kind origin from Africa? Then why hate or lough at Africans?
And when Southern Europe, Middle & Far East & South Asia had great civilizations the rest of the world were mostly a bunch of monkeys jumping from tree to tree.
So why misvalue Greeks, Egyptians, or Chinese?
Because they suck nowadays?
So did you back then when they thrived.

Americans, British, French, Germans, Italians, Egyptians, Arabs, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Australians, Blacks, Whites etc. are all the same.
They all did their part in history.
They all contributed to the rest of the humanity in their time.